An unhappy ending to a marriage

[Balamban 113]

I brought my fiancée to America on a K1, 3 ½ years ago, we married and married life has been wonderful.  Then, out of the blue, my wife left and asked for a divorce.

Why? Because her family in Cebu demanded that she leave and divorce me.  Seriously, my wife left a note: “I love you, but I must leave.”

 

My mistake, six years ago, was that I had told her that my “dream” was to have a mango farm on Bohol.  That dream and FaceBook has ended my marriage.  Of course, there’s more to that.  I’m an RN and ran into a situation at work where a nurse filed a complaint with the Board of Nursing, well, not “a” complaint, rather it was over 40 complaints.

 

The Board of Nursing turned it over to my state’s Attorney General’s Investigative Department (police) and the investigation took over two years.  For those two years, I was unable to work as an RN.  The outcome, not that long ago, all dismissed.  Innocent.  But here I was with no income for two years, and that’s equal to about 10 million pesos that I did not have.

 

Well, it seemed that long ago my soon to be ex-wife told the family about my dream farm.  It is clear that the family, extended family, neighborhood, compadres and all those in the town started waiting for the daughter who married the (rich) American to buy the farm.  But, nobody, and not my wife ever told me that they were waiting for “the farm.”  This expectation was never voiced, I had no clue that one hundred people were waiting for the happy announcement: “daughter has a mango farm for the family.”

 

Year one of our marriage, great, everybody was happy.  Year two, odd family demands, unsettling demands for more and more peso.  Originally, we sent 4k peso, then 6, 8, 10, then Covid hit and I sent 20k @ month, to help the siblings out—but nobody ever seemed happy.

 

One day there was weeping and gnashing of teeth, “papa is to be thrown out of his house.”  (He’s an informal squatter and does not own the land the house is on).

 

Oh, but guess what?  Brother-in-law just happened to have found a good piece of land for only 350k peso.  Great, I said, buy it.  But, *groan*.  No clear title, no proof that taxes were up to date and worse, far worse, the land was land-locked.  This means, no access to a road.  I said the buyer: “Sure, I’ll buy it, let’s work with a lawyer, and pay some peso to a neighbor to get a titled right-of-way.  Her response: “You have no money, you kuripot.” *click* Shortly after that my wife’s sister’s family locked us out on FB.  Huh?

 

Then, every month, on the 15^th, when we made remittances, my wife was increasingly traumatized.  I got to dread the 15^th, like the plague, just hoping to get through it and no, I was not going to keep increasing remittances forever—so there was argument, our only fights were about family and remittances.

 

Interestingly, papa was never thrown out, so much for the imminent eviction.  One day the family happily announced they had found the perfect small farm, it had mango trees, and was only 3.2 million (US ~$60,000).  It was perfect and I would have loved to buy it but I had gone 2 years with no income and had to say no.

 

Silence, and then volcanic eruptions.  “Papa tried to stab is son, he is in a drunken rage.”  Another week, “Papa has gone on a binge and has broken all the glass in the house.” Translation: “You are a bad daughter, (and by definition, a bad son-in-law), you did not buy the farm, you are forcing papa (an alcoholic) to drink.”

 

Then on October 15^th, we were one day late in remittances. Oh, the angst!  The crime of the century.  And the next day, my wife asked for a divorce, packed up and left and has not returned and will not return. 

 

What is fascinating is she was never a gold-digger, she was a great woman, a great wife and I am crushed but there is absolutely nothing that I can do.  It seems to me that this is an odd (maybe, maybe not) case where the cause was the family, not the wife.

 

Her AOS has not been finalized and I wonder what will happen if we are called in for an interview. If asked: “Was this a bona-fide relationship?” I would have to say: “Yes, until the family demanded an end to it and my wife obeyed, even though she had said in our wedding ceremony: “I promise to love, honor, cherish and protect him, forsaking all others, holding only unto him forevermore.”

 

I asked her about her vows (we’re civil, we live in a no-fault state, and are breaking up civilly). Her response: “That wasn’t a real wedding.” (meaning it wasn’t in the Phils)  So, for anyone who might read this, consider marrying your fiancé in the Philippines where the marriage is apt to be considered “real,” by the family.

 

And for the naysayers, no, there is no other guy in the wings.  She’s moved in with a Filipina friend (a married couple) and is doing what her parents demand:  Last week she has worked exactly 88 hours.  I had suspected that but 3 weeks have gone by and there appears to be no hidden lover to be.

 

I wanted a simple Filipina and got one and it was the best, but what I failed to realize was that I did not marry a Filipina, I married about 100 others variously related.  Had I the money to buy that farm, I’d be happily married today.  That’s a hard lesson on Filipina culture.

 

For the Filipinas (ino’s) and spouses here, a question: Is this common?  FaceBook is loaded with good daughters who bought their parents a house/land/farm.  The message to too many is: "If daughter marries a foreign man, the house/farm will come."  Sure, it does for some and sure all daughters and their son-in-laws will and would do that, if they can.  My problem was, I couldn't, at least not in the time-frame that the family wanted.

 

And yes, not understanding I’ve offered to buy the landlocked land or the farm (in a few years since I’ll be back working full-time again in a few weeks) but “no,” I am defined now as kuripot (cheap) and there is no forgiving that.  The family has lost “face.” 

 

And I made it worse since I complained on FaceBook, for when she left I had thought there was another guy, and said so, so now there is no turning back the hands of time.  It is difficult for a Westerner to understand the concept of “face,” but this sums it up.

 

“When you cause a Filipino to lose face in front of his friends or family, you are in for trouble and you need to figure out what to do.  If you don’t, there’s no telling what could happen, including death.  That would be extreme, but it does happen.  Basically, I would suggest that you need to show some humility, and apologize in front of the same people that witnessed the event.  If you don’t do that, the person who lost face will not regain his honor. Basically, if you take no action to correct the problem, revenge might happen, and it might happen even years later.  These things are not easily forgotten.”  https://liveinthephilippines.com/loss-of-face/

 

I shall try to apologize but I’ve been told, it will make no difference and that I must move on, as hard as it is for my Western psyche to grasp.

 

For all Western males here I strongly suggest that you read Culture Shock Guide (Philippines)  Alfredo and Grace Roces.

 

 https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Shock-Philippines-Survival-Etiquette/dp/0761456716/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=culture+shock+philippines&qid=1636306114&sr=8-1

Edited November 7, 2021 by Balamban

[SalishSea 16,770]

48 minutes ago, Balamban said:

I wanted a simple Filipina and got one

You had me until this.  Your saga sounds like you are a disgruntled customer.

 

Why not look for a partner for their own merits, rather than someone from a specific country who you assume will be "simple"?

[Boiler 43,433]

I have seen no end of similar stories on here.

[Adventine 3,187]

 

 

2 hours ago, Balamban said:

 

I wanted a simple Filipina and got one and it was the best, but what I failed to realize was that I did not marry a Filipina, I married about 100 others variously related.  Had I the money to buy that farm, I’d be happily married today.  That’s a hard lesson on Filipina culture.

 

For the Filipinas (ino’s) and spouses here, a question: Is this common?  FaceBook is loaded with good daughters who bought their parents a house/land/farm.  The message to too many is: "If daughter marries a foreign man, the house/farm will come."  Sure, it does for some and sure all daughters and their son-in-laws will and would do that, if they can.  My problem was, I couldn't, at least not in the time-frame that the family wanted.

 

And yes, not understanding I’ve offered to buy the landlocked land or the farm (in a few years since I’ll be back working full-time again in a few weeks) but “no,” I am defined now as kuripot (cheap) and there is no forgiving that.  The family has lost “face.” 

 

 

You're coming from a place of hurt and pain. I get it. But you're generalizing Filipinas in a way that sounds like both you and your wife had expectations of each other that just didn't match reality. You expected a "simple" woman, and it sounded like she expected a "good" provider. It seems that you both resent each other for not living up to those expectations.

It sounds like your wife never drew firm boundaries with her family when it came to money or family support. Before getting married, did you ever have honest, direct discussions with her about how much money she would send home? What were your backup plans if someone in her family had a financial emergency? Exactly how many people were you expected to support back home? What were her expectations about the wedding? How much time did you spend in the Philippines and how much did you know about Filipino culture before you married? 

 

These are all things that the two of you should have talked about seriously before getting married. Or maybe you did, but the priorities changed. In any case, it sounds like a lot of built up resentment on both sides -  yours and hers.

 

I'm a Filipina, and kuripot (cheap), and I still send money regularly to my family because I have a shared responsibility with my siblings to take care of an aging father. Emphasis on shared. But I've set clear boundaries with them: you are only getting X pesos a month, because I'm married now, and I have my own priorities, and they do not include supporting everyone back home. My siblings have their own jobs, emergency funds, insurance and investments, and we all share expenses with supporting our aging father. I was up front with my husband about this while we were dating, and we had our financial plans in writing so that it was always clear.

 

 

2 hours ago, Balamban said:

 

And I made it worse since I complained on FaceBook, for when she left I had thought there was another guy, and said so, so now there is no turning back the hands of time. 

 

 

 

 

Also, any woman, Filipina or not, whose husband accuses her of infidelity on social media, is not going to be happy.
 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Adventine

[Unlockable 7,306]

*** Moved from the Philippines section of the forum to the Effects of Major Changes on Immigration benefits.

 

 

VJ Moderation

[Balamban 113]

3 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

You had me until this.  Your saga sounds like you are a disgruntled customer.

 

Why not look for a partner for their own merits, rather than someone from a specific country who you assume will be "simple"?

Thank you for your comment Jorgedig.  "Simple appears to mean normal, not demanding of the luxuries in life. ie: Happy to live a simple life. (In comparison to what is seen in many others)."

 

In the Philippines, and any Filipino(a) here, please correct me if I'm wrong, is not a put-down.  Many women say "I"m a simple person, and it means that I'm not high-so.  

[Balamban 113]

1 hour ago, Adventine said:

 

You're coming from a place of hurt and pain. I get it. But you're generalizing Filipinas in a way that sounds like both you and your wife had expectations of each other that just didn't match reality. You expected a "simple" woman, and it sounded like she expected a "good" provider. It seems that you both resent each other for not living up to those expectations.

It sounds like your wife never drew firm boundaries with her family when it came to money or family support. Before getting married, did you ever have honest, direct discussions with her about how much money she would send home? What were your backup plans if someone in her family had a financial emergency? Exactly how many people were you expected to support back home? What were her expectations about the wedding? How much time did you spend in the Philippines and how much did you know about Filipino culture before you married? 

 

These are all things that the two of you should have talked about seriously before getting married. Or maybe you did, but the priorities changed. In any case, it sounds like a lot of built up resentment on both sides -  yours and hers.

 

I'm a Filipina, and kuripot (cheap), and I still send money regularly to my family because I have a shared responsibility with my siblings to take care of an aging father. Emphasis on shared. But I've set clear boundaries with them: you are only getting X pesos a month, because I'm married now, and I have my own priorities, and they do not include supporting everyone back home. My siblings have their own jobs, emergency funds, insurance and investments, and we all share expenses with supporting our aging father. I was up front with my husband about this while we were dating, and we had our financial plans in writing so that it was always clear.

Thank you for your thoughts, Adventine.  My wife had the same expectations about finance as I did.  The issue was never between us, it was this unsaid "buy us a farm," you sound like you have excellent boundaries, while she has essentially very little boundaries.  Most of  the family have no jobs and my wife was the baby, not an elder.  The other daughters demanded that she act as Ate, but never gave her the respect that an Ate deserves.  Actually we were quite upfront and agreed between us to send 3500 peso/month, yet even when sending 20,000, essentially supporting the entire family during Covid, it was never enough.  The reality was not the monthly remittance, it was that they expected me to buy them a farm...........but nobody ever told me that.  That's the crazy part.

 

My soon to be ex-wife has no resentments at all.  Today she said: "I told the family that I still want to see you," and they said "no."  To me that seems just weird.

[Balamban 113]

28 minutes ago, Unlockable said:

*** Moved from the Philippines section of the forum to the

 

 

VJ Moderation

Moderator, why move this to "Effects of Major Changes on Immigration benefits."

 

This is about Philppine culture  ?

[Adventine 3,187]

You may find it useful to read this article on Ask Culture vs. Guess Culture: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/

Americans are very much Askers. Filipinos are very much Guessers. The issue with the farm seems to be a classic example.

[Balamban 113]

13 minutes ago, Adventine said:

You may find it useful to read this article on Ask Culture vs. Guess Culture: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/

Americans are very much Askers. Filipinos are very much Guessers. The issue with the farm seems to be a classic example.

Very interesting article, thank you.

 

My gut response, being a Westerner would be: 

 

"Actually, One of Them Is Wrong  The New Republic's Jonathan Chait takes a hard line. "This is actually pretty simple: Guessers are wrong, and Askers are right. Asking is how you actually determine what the Asker wants and the giver is willing to receive. Guessing culture is a recipe for frustration. What's more, Guessers, who are usually trying to be nice and are holding themselves to a higher level of politeness, ruin things for the rest of us ... Guessers are what forces people with poor social discernment, like me, to regard all kinds of interactions as a minefield of awkwardness."

 

Yet, I'll be the first to agree that my gut response, in the Philippines is at best insensitive and at worst, totally wrong.  Since harmony has such a high priority, there "guesser's" are correct.  So, perhaps the real problem was that a "guesser," probes with hints, and they may have done that--to my wife, who never really translated what the "reality" was.  

 

The family sort of gave me an "out," with the landlocked land.  Yes, it would have been dangerous to actually occupy it, but they could, after everyone in the village expected the "farm to appear" say: "See the son-in-law bought us land."  That way, perhaps the family could have "saved face."  

 

Intercultural exchange can be difficult and perhaps more so when the parties are not bi-lingual.  I suspect that even if I had a rudimentary knowledge of Bisaya, I would have seen what the problem really was, and maybe solved it.

[Boiler 43,433]

It is also about adjusting status from a K 1

 

Have you pulled the I 864?

[laylalex 7,247]

Now this is from a different cultural perspective, but I can see some similarities between what you have gone through and what my husband and his ex-wife did. They are both British -- he is Scottish and she is English. She comes from considerable family money, and was always treated like the baby of the family by her parents and older brothers. She was sheltered from making any decisions about money or much of anything growing up. Everyone thought they were protecting her, but what they were doing was keeping her from becoming an adult. Instead, her older brothers made all the money and property decisions for her, and she was happy to let them do it because she didn't know any better. They are, as far as I am aware, a family with very, very poor boundaries, where everyone is always in everyone else's business, all the time.

 

Flash forward to four years into her marriage to my husband. They have a little girl together, and my husband has left his well-paying job to start a business of his own. But through some poor luck and mistimed decisions, that business folds. Her brothers drive up to London -- while my now-husband is at work, winding down the business -- and give her an ultimatum: you get to choose which family you're a part of. You can't be part of ours if you stay with him, and that goes for your daughter too. She left because they convinced her she'd never be taken care of properly by my husband, not like her family could. They coldly manipulated her because (my husband says) they were worried that he would start dipping into her family's money. She wanted to stay with him but they wore her down, telling her she'd be throwing away her blood family for marriage, and for one that wasn't even that old. Very, very cruel. They were more worried about losing money than their sister's happiness.

 

It's always about money, at least in my experience, when it isn't about infidelity. My first marriage imploded because of the latter, and while it was sad, the end doesn't feel like a tragedy like my husband's first one. They truly loved each other, but she couldn't draw a line she could hold between herself and her family. Our job now is to make sure their daughter doesn't replicate these mistakes. 

 

All of this is to say that these issues can come up in different places, with very different people involved and very different cultures. What remains constant is families who somehow think that the members "belong" to each other rather than to themselves, that individuals lack the ability to make decisions on their own, like they're all limbs on the same body and must be controlled by the same brain. A family with a ton of money doesn't have to be so different from one with little if the common thread is poor boundaries. 

 

I know this must hurt a ton right now. When my husband was going through his first marriage blowing up, I was a close friend to him and I was always there to listen. Right now, I recommend reaching out to people you trust to listen to you. You might be surprised at how many people want to help and will not judge. This is some of the hardest stuff we have to go through as adults in the world, putting our hearts out there and hoping the people we love handle them with care. Sometimes you can have all the love in the world and it still won't work. Sending you wishes for healing and peace. ❤️ 

[Balamban 113]

1 hour ago, Balamban said:

Moderator, why move this to "Effects of Major Changes on Immigration benefits."

 

This is about Philppine culture  ?

Very much so.  It's a discussion of a failed marriage that failed due to the US petitioner not understanding cultural differences in the Philippines.

[chancecody 123]

6 minutes ago, Balamban said:

Very much so.  It's a discussion of a failed marriage that failed due to the US petitioner not understanding cultural differences in the Philippines.

Sorry you are having difficulty right now but things will get better. Reading your post felt like I was watching a telenovela on GMA PinoyTV. I think you are better off now as like you said, you married someone with extended family who likes to treat you like an ATM. Do not generalize the Filipino culture though based on your experience as not everyone is like that. If your wife really loved you, she would not have left and fought for you. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by chancecody

[Balamban 113]

27 minutes ago, laylalex said:

 

It's always about money, at least in my experience, when it isn't about infidelity.

Many thanks layalex, yes there is a real resonance to your post and my situation.

 

A friend wrote me:  

 

"We are very much a family orientated individual and unfortunately our decisions are always highly influenced by what our families think.

There's a saying in the Philippines "I'm gonna marry the 4 M's, matandang (old), mayaman (rich), madaling (quick) mamatay( to die)" so that's really does say a lot."

 

It sort of makes me laugh and cringe at the same time.  The tragedy is that clearly my wife does not want to end the marriage but when pushed a bit she confessed: "Yes, I must do what the family demands."  Much like your story.