Why does the US hate AOS from tourist visas?

[Boiler 43,538]

There was a Ukranian one on here the other week.

 

Not something I participated in but back in the day there was quite the RUB group.

 

In my view any Country where there is a big spousal tourist business would be prone.

 

I do remember a classic Ukrainian case last year, BBC covered it - here we are https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57358241

[African Zealot 1,452]

26 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

 

Also, a report from Center for Immigration Studies with actual VAWA self petitions by country:

 

https://cis.org/Sharkey/New-Data-Emerges-SelfPetitioning-Abused-Alien-Spouses

 

 

The above table is a sample size from 1,124 case that went to AAO.  The study used AAO as an indicator that the VAWA self petition was denied and therefore the decision was appealed, as a general indication of VAWA fraud or other issue.   Again, Ukraine and Russia is not on the "top of the list".

 

When making accusations, please back them up with some facts or research.

You seem to take the assertion personally needlessly and went to great lengths to attempt to debunk it. It ain’t that serious.
 

In any case using appealed cases as a proxy for fraud is a very poor measure. Those countries whose citizens have the process down pat likely never get to the denial and appeal stage because they’re masters of the game as indicated by organized fraud in their visa lottery applications.

 

Cheers.

 

Quote

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-visa-program/25152880.html 

 

The U.S. State Department says its immigrant visa lottery program in Ukraine has been overrun by organized fraud rings.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57358241

Edited May 24, 2022 by African Zealot

[SteveInBostonI130 3,319]

2 minutes ago, African Zealot said:

You seem to take the assertion personally needlessly and went to great lengths to attempt to debunk it. it ain’t that serious.
 

In any case using appealed cases as a proxy for fraud is a very poor measure. Those countries whose citizens have the process down pat likely never get to the denial and appeal stage because they’re masters of the game.

 

Cheers.

 

I tend to take any baseless accusations seriously.  It's one of the reasons how misinformation tends to spread.  If you have any actual data to back up your claim, I would like to be proven correct.  Otherwise, it's just meaningless opinions at best, slander at worst.

 

[Boiler 43,538]

6 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

 

I tend to take any baseless accusations seriously.  It's one of the reasons how misinformation tends to spread.  If you have any actual data to back up your claim, I would like to be proven correct.  Otherwise, it's just meaningless opinions at best, slander at worst.

 

You did not read the BBC article did you

[SteveInBostonI130 3,319]

24 minutes ago, Boiler said:

There was a Ukranian one on here the other week.

 

Not something I participated in but back in the day there was quite the RUB group.

 

In my view any Country where there is a big spousal tourist business would be prone.

 

I do remember a classic Ukrainian case last year, BBC covered it - here we are https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57358241

 

Hi Boiler, thank you for the link.  That is some story, one of the wilder ones I've read.

 

I have read many stories of dating and romance scams involving Ukrainian women.  I did a lot of research when I started chatting to my wife, just in case.  The mail-order-bride industry there was notorious.  Odessa, Nikolaev and also Cartagena, Columbia, for some reason.

 

Most tend to be local scams where the woman (or perhap a man if the guy never met his "beloved" and  only texted) swindles as much as they can and never show up in the US/UK/etc.  I don't know of one personally that involved actual fiance or spouse visa scam, but I believe there must be some cases out there.

 

The point I was trying to get across was that for fiance and spouse visas are considered low risk in Ukraine.  They don't go through the scrutiny of some other countries.

[SteveInBostonI130 3,319]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

You did not read the BBC article did you

I did.

[Timona 3,947]

Not surprised Kenyans are on the list.

 

We tend to carry our "not so good" manners abroad too. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Timona

[TBoneTX 43,154]

Folks, the Ukraine/Russia discussion has gone off the OP's topic.  Thanks in advance for letting it drop, and for refocusing on the OP's initial question.

[Redro 4,601]

9 hours ago, Jordanian Bride said:

Hey guys, don't jump on the hate train! We're not planning to do that, and can't anyway.

 

I've been studying the immigration process very closely ever see we embarked on this journey, and I don't get it from a US point of view. If you adjust status, then you qualify for a green card, and your visa bulletin is current. It's not like you are adjusting status despite an ineligibility to do so. What kind of problems, possibly security or workload related does it create for USCIS for aliens to adjust status from a tourist visa?

 

I am not looking for an answer like "Well, it wouldn't be fair to the immigrants who went through consular processing." I know it isn't fair, but USCIS doesn't care about how we feel, so what's the actual reason?

Not all AOS cases are equal. 

 

First scenario: Person arrives in the US with USC boyfriend/girlfriend and already knows they'll get married and adjust because "We just can't live as a married couple in separate countries for even a minute!" 

Others arrive in the US as a tourist, work illegally, overstay and then start dating a USC and eventually marry. (This might take a few months or a few years).

Second scenario usually receives more scrutiny.

Especially if the beneficiary stated they were married to someone from their own country to strengthen their B1/B2 application.

Or they married another USC before filing the adjustment in question. The background checks these cases go through is probably extensive. Stokes interviews might be held (takes a lot of time). Second interviews conducted... A burden on the system. 

 

If there is a rule stating K1s can only adjust through their petitioner I don't see why they create a rule stopping AOS from tourist visas.  

Let them file in the States, give them EADs but once your number is called... you have to leave the US and interview at your consulate. 

Force everyone to go through the proper channels. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Redro 4,601]

41 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

If there is a rule stating K1s can only adjust through their petitioner I don't see why they create a rule stopping AOS from tourist visas.  

Let them file in the States, give them EADs but once your number is called... you have to leave the US and interview at your consulate. 

Force everyone to go through the proper channels. 

 

 

 

 

 

***I don't see why they can't create a rule stopping AOS from tourist visas/ overstays... 

 

ETA: If someone has overstayed on their tourist visa and worked without authorization... they might also need to check if the foreign national has ever claimed to be a US citizen at any point in their time in the US. 

A lot more work than someone marrying while still in status and filing adjustment after 4 months in the US... 

Edited May 24, 2022 by ROK2USA

[Cathi 5,613]

12 hours ago, Jordanian Bride said:

Guys, y'all are not reading the post. I am not protesting and whining that we want to adjust status on a tourist visa. I come from a high visa fraud country, and I hate that we created that reputation for ourselves.

 

That being said, I am trying to discuss why it is unethical in the eyes of the law, and if there are security and other concerns I am overlooking. I know we have a strict policy against visa fraud, and I don't see how I am going against that? This is a discussion about USCIS concerns.

Jordan is not a high fraud country, it's a MENA country. There's a difference. I have not come across a single case of anyone having trouble getting a visa from Jordan in my 10 years on this site. Nor have I seen anyone have any trouble during the interview or at any other point during their journey. I have several family members who have applied for visitor visas from Jordan, they were all approved with 10 year B2 visas and the process was very easy. There ages varied in range from 20's-70's.

[Crazy Cat 39,324]

10 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Congress needs to revise immigration law to prohibit adjustment of status from tourist visas -- period.

I agree 100%.....There is too much room for fraud......

Edited May 24, 2022 by Crazy Cat

[EmilyW 1,226]

And it creates flow-on effects that impact those who do just want to visit the US for a vacation.  They pay the price for those who found a spouse 10 minutes after leaving baggage claim.

[Nat&Amy 623]

13 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

 

Congress needs to revise immigration law to prohibit adjustment of status from tourist visas -- period.

Amen to that!

[Kai G. Llewellyn 823]

It's simple really...

 

It's far easier for the US government to deny an immigrant visa case whereby the applicant is in their home country and doesn't need to be deported vs. a failed adjustment of status case whereby the applicant could just fall off the radar, or have to be put through removal proceedings.

 

Do I agree with this stance? Not really, Canada on the other hand is perfectly fine with tourists planning to submit an inland application for permanent residence when they enter the country. Though they will refuse to issue a temporary residence visa (if you require one) if they think you're planning to do that. If you're already in possession of a TRV or visa-exempt, then it's no big deal.

 

Could be worse though, the UK doesn't allow you to apply for PR at all (ILR) until you've resided like 5 years in the country, even if you're a spouse. You get a visa granting a stay of 2 years 9 months, then you renew it for a further period, then only after that can you get ILR, and if you were admitted for no more than 6 months you must apply from abroad.

 

At the end of the day really, different countries, different requirements and the joys of being an immigrant is if the government tells you to jump, you say 'how high?'