WHAT!! 221G for "domicile" and "bank" issues??

[bkksux 0]

I want to make sure this shows up in search results, cuz my fiance had a HORRIBLE experience at U.S. Embassy in Bangkok. So let me start by saying this is talking about the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand on Wireless Road and regarding the K1 (Fiance) Visa application and interview process, which has taken us over 6+ months of work so far and we still have not accomplished a visa yet... let the venting begin:

== K1 INTERVIEW A.K.A. PACKET 4 AT U.S. EMBASSY IN BANGKOK ==

Background:

First of all, I went to the BKK Embassy a few years back for another personal issue and the staff then were pretty friendly and helpful... apparently that has TOTALLY CHANGED... or the VISA people are a VERY different crowd.

Everyone was a huge jerk to my fiance. She was dressed politely, speaks English rather well, and was extremely well prepared (and is well educated). And no, she's not a bar girl...

Super slow + grumpy + incompetent + illegal:

Obviously the recent Chiang Mai Embassy closing for repairs has probably added stress and work to the BKK Embassy, but it doesn't excuse the disgusting level of snideness these people direct at hopeful families or students. It's their JOB, and you are legally representing the US GOVERNMENT. Typically in U.S. government offices I've been pleasantly surprised that, even when they are having a "grumpy" day, they still are generally professional and DO THEIR JOB. This gang at the BKK Embassy is NOT the same, I guess. It seemed very clear, not just from my fiance's 221G but from the several other Thai ladies next to her that also got 221G as well that they are purposefully using this "tool" right now as a new way to lessen their workload during the end of the year... and it's delaying the marriage and/or very sensitive plans of honest, hard-working people for not just a few days but even MONTHS (more on that explained below).

Despite getting there at 715am for her 8am appointment, she didn't actually start her interview until around 10:15am. It took nearly 4 HOURS for her to get fully in and out...

The most ridiculous part? Her "interview" was only around 30 seconds. And if you haven't heard, the "interview" is now just walking up to a glass window (standing there, i.e. like you are ordering from McDonald's) and answering a few b*tchy questions from the Officer you are unlucky enough to be given (they apparently limit the K1 cases to the same one Officer per each day, now). No private sit down, no discussion, no real "interview" at all.

On top of that, the Officers now have the Information Desk (low level Thai staff with poor English skills) do most of the "interview" for them. They ask your fiance questions during the check-in process and enter the answers in the computer. This is where my fiance's problems seem to have begun, as her profile then somehow ended up saying that her sponsor (me) was living permanently in Thailand and not the USA (100% not true, have been in US past 1+ year almost entirely). And for the record, this is surely completely illegal under U.S. law to be having Thai nationals not only interviewing, but formulating 221G evidence demands for visa applicants... (after the interview finished, this Thai "desk" girl also initially gave my fiance the totally wrong lady's K1 REJECTION LETTER because of the fact her English was so terrible, she couldn't even understand the document).

K1 interview now 100% pointless:

Literally the Officer just asked my fiance to "swear in" (very ironic, since his "desk" girl had already asked most of the questions, albeit inaccurately) and then asked her where I lived. "In ____ (city), (state), USA" was her answer. "But is he visiting you in Thailand now?" the Officer asked next, and she answers, "Yes, he came here the past few months to help with my K1 visa process."

Without another comment or question, he said "okay now go out and get the paper waiting for you at the Information Desk" ... she didn't even realize the "interview" was over, but it was! The desk girl handed my fiance a 221G document (which apparently had already been prepared by the desk girl during the 3-hour period my fiance was waiting for the Officer interview... derived from the girl's own faulty information about my country of residence; now I could be wrong on who prepared the 221G but unless the Officer somehow typed up the document and printed it out in the 30 seconds between pushing my fiance out the door and sending her to the desk, then NO... it was surely not composed by the Officer).

THE 221G REASON? They said we didn't provide DOMICILE evidence and that my bank account statements didn't mention the "date of account opening"... but I hadn't claimed any cash assets on the I-134 so that shouldn't even apply... the 9+ months of bank statements I provided were simply to back up the self-employed tax returns that I had submitted already (together with bank statements) in PACKET 1 + PACKET 3 as recommended by my visa agency and by dozens of other users across the web who had applied for K1 as a self-employed sponsor. Either the Officer failed to review I-134 documents properly, or was simply finding a purposefully illegitimate reason to quickly issue a 221G.

Did the Officer glance over some of the documents from Packet 3, Packet 4, and Packet 1? Yes, he did, it seemed, at least for a minute prior to interview. But his decision was apparently finalized on the data inputted by the desk girl, which is ludicrous (which said that I didn't live in the USA, etc). When my fiance realized it was a 221G she told the "girl" that WAIT, she did have DOMICILE information and that the I-134 included tax returns and bank statements... "NO! It doesn't matter! You must mail only... just give [221g] to your boyfriend!" was the girl's reply. My fiance says, "What, why is that? Isn't that the purpose of the Packet 4 and interview? How long with it take to put together more documents [that don't even apply to our situation] just to mail back to the Embassy again?" ... the girl then says angrily, "Yes that's because we are so busy now and ready for a long holiday... so don't hurry to send them, just wait until sometime in the new year!"

Now my Thai visa will expire soon, my fiance's apartment lease will expire soon, and we are (edited) out of luck. Plus, the "bank assets proof" they requested doesn't exist, because I don't have (nor claimed) tons of cash in the bank.

(Edited) BKK EMBASSY for lying about not only our profile data, but demanding docs that didn't apply to our case, and then confessing your true motivation was skirting your duty to avoid work.

SOUNDS JUST LIKE THE THAI GOVERNMENT AT THIS POINT...

post edited for language

Edited December 19, 2016 by Ontarkie

[Georgia16 2,858]

Sorry you had a bad day at the embassy. However that is how most of the interviews are. You walk up to the window and that's where they ask questions and also they have a person who take the papers first and also might ask some questions.

Just be happy it's not a denial I know it's had to take in right now but just gather the paper quickly and get it sent to them.

I wish you good luck.

[Ben&Zian 4,397]

Same way in Manila Embassy also..

.

Their have some Filipino/Filipina's who ask 3-4 questions each at a couple different window stations first before the interview itself takes place. They gather some basic information and "check for consistency" basically so the CO has a good idea when he looks briefly at the file before the interview itself. Sometimes they just ask questions... sometimes they ask for other documentation.. some embassies are a bit random on this process(Manila especially as they don't ask for a lot of your supporting evidence sometimes)

And when you book an interview at 8am..... so do like 20-30 other people.... Everyone goes at like 7am and then stands in line... It's just a generic "time slot". Pretty sure thats the same at all embassies.

As to the interview, thats strictly at the discretion of the CO... so if there was complications for your fiance when talking initially so some of the Thai staff, the CO could see the discrepancies immediately from them and what was in your original packet that they review right before hand.

Most of what you said is pretty much standard routine for most interview processes. Sorry that the staff seemed to be rude though, that is not very professional of them; but everything else seems pretty standard practice in US embassies.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Ben&Zian

[Transborderwife 4,666]

I agree that from other stories on VJ this sounds like standard procedure. quite often the decision is made before the interview even begins or so it seems

[C-ma'am 684]

**Post moved from K1 to Progress Reports

[Ontarkie 13,898]

~~Post edited for language. Any future attempts to bypass the language filter will result in administrative action.~~

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

Are you sure that you met the self-employed income limits?

Are you also sure that the bank account information wasn't pertaining to domicile? Domicile info should not be difficult for you supply or re-supply.

[bkksux 0]

Same way in Manila Embassy also..

.

Their have some Filipino/Filipina's who ask 3-4 questions each at a couple different window stations first before the interview itself takes place. They gather some basic information and "check for consistency" basically so the CO has a good idea when he looks briefly at the file before the interview itself. Sometimes they just ask questions... sometimes they ask for other documentation.. some embassies are a bit random on this process(Manila especially as they don't ask for a lot of your supporting evidence sometimes)

And when you book an interview at 8am..... so do like 20-30 other people.... Everyone goes at like 7am and then stands in line... It's just a generic "time slot". Pretty sure thats the same at all embassies.

As to the interview, thats strictly at the discretion of the CO... so if there was complications for your fiance when talking initially so some of the Thai staff, the CO could see the discrepancies immediately from them and what was in your original packet that they review right before hand.

Most of what you said is pretty much standard routine for most interview processes. Sorry that the staff seemed to be rude though, that is not very professional of them; but everything else seems pretty standard practice in US embassies.

Yah unfortunately Thailand and Philippines seem to have the most b.s. procedures due to saturation? Obama just pulled in record taxes, and U.S. citizens now can't even open a bank account in Thailand without filling our IRS forms, no joke... and yet what we are supposed to believe there is no budget to get interviews done in an accurate yet timely manner... ridiculous.

When a poorly educated Thai national can input 100% wrong data and screw over your interview and then force you to wait at least 1-2 more months... something is wrong with the picture eh!!

Are you sure that you met the self-employed income limits?

Are you also sure that the bank account information wasn't pertaining to domicile? Domicile info should not be difficult for you supply or re-supply.

100% certain. Bank info was requested on a 2nd document so not related to Domicile request.

One lady on Facebook told us maybe they are just "verifying" the bank statements are real (my self-employed income)... which is hilarious, cuz a letter from my bank would be way easier to forge than 9+ months of detailed statements.

[Ash.1101 1,755]

It's possible that since you had the bank statements they just assumed you were trying to show them what's in the bank.

Also, it seems that those forms are sent to the information desk just via the printer network. While he may have never have gotten up to get the paper, he easily could have had the information put into the system since it has to go there anyways and simply hit print and it went to the girl who did it.

But I agree, sometimes their minds are made up before you even get there.

Do you have a place in the US? You said that your fiances lease ends soon, and that your visa ends soon, so I'm guessing you aren't living in the US right now. Some embassys want like rental agreements and electric bills and such for domicile proof, not just a promise of where you'll live.


But as other's said, you didn't get a denial, send in what they asked for and you should be fine.


Did they ask for Domicile proof AND a new I-134, a cosponsor maybe?

[Ben&Zian 4,397]

While this may or may not be seen by the OP.... I'd like to say, I agreed with the process of the Bangkok embassy, as with how the Manila embassy performs there process. The Manila embassy, while very much like the Bangkok process, was smooth and orderly and very straight forward.

The issue seems to be the lack of education or awareness by yourself and your fiance, with NO disrespect intended, but had you simply searched here, or even just through Google for embassy reviews you would have had a basic understanding of how the embassy worked with their appointments and the process.

You said... and I quote "She was dressed politely, speaks English rather well, and was extremely well prepared (and is well educated). And no, she's not a bar girl..."

Immediately "speaks english rather well" caught my attention...... Then you proceeded to say... again and I quote "On top of that, the Officers now have the Information Desk (low level Thai staff with poor English skills) do most of the "interview" for them. They ask your fiance questions during the check-in process and enter the answers in the computer. This is where my fiance's problems seem to have begun, as her profile then somehow ended up saying that her sponsor (me) was living permanently in Thailand and not the USA".......

Now.... back to had you done any research at all about the interview process, you would have read that no where during the interview process does the beneficiary even have to be able to speak English... she could have gone through the whole process in her native language. This would have negated your view of her "Speaking english rather well" and the "low level Thai staff with poor english skills". She does not even have to speak english to the CO during the interview itself, she could use a translator. (This would raise the question ofcourse how the two of you communicate; but that would be simple because she could then speak english to the CO who, I would guess in your mind speaks English "fairly" well)

You did not do any research or even have an idea of how the interview process worked. Others here and myself all have agreed that this type of process your fiance experienced was fairly routine and the norm. So before you go blaming "Obama and taxes" and "Poorly educated Thai nationals", maybe re-evaluate what you did before the interview to make sure you both were prepared....

And while I 100% respect your right to voice your opinion, you need to just accept part of this issue on yourself for lack of preparation.

I do wish the best for you and hopefuilly as soon as they get the requested documents that the process can proceed and have a successful result. Good luck to you.

[Villanelle 4,121]

Oh my...

I have to say I am just shaking my head at all this... I dont know if its Ben or Zian doing the writing above- but yup.

The OP here- who creatively named himself bkksux (ha ha) seems to be complaining about the 221g he got for domicile and bank info- which is a perfectly understandable rant. But whats rather silly is complaining about how they did not even seem to look at documents from the other packets. That they waited for 3 hours.

Because as many on here know- many CO's review the packets prior to the interviews. Not having it reviewed in front of you does not mean it was not reviewed.It also explains the 3 hours you waited. It also means since your 221g was only for 2 things that the rest of your packet WAS reviewed and deemed sufficient.

Now you can pout and rant all you want about the 134 requirements about the bank statements. Nothing you can do about it. Totally their discretion. Your bank statements were not being used as proof of assets- and no ones asking for them to be used that way. They were supporting evidence to your income. Im sorry if you are unhappy with the CO wanting more info about them. Im not even sure why you sent them? Countless sources said so? really? Thats odd. I can see countless sources suggesting it may be helpful. But you have to have a specific set of circumstances for it to be helpful. Did you include spreadsheets with monthly profit/loss statements that matched the bank account? A letter of self employment? You just sent the taxes and bank statements?

And honestly asking for proof of your domicile isnt that crazy because USCs dont need a visa to go there. Unless youve been there for 60-90 days- and since you are saying your time is up, Im guessing its been the 3 months.

Just submit back the stuff they asked for. Did they keep her passport?? If so, when you send back the stuff they will put the visa in her passport.

[Villanelle 4,121]

If you used rapid visa- take your complaints to them. Not sure anyone here is interested in hearing about them with your attitude or going to be willing to offer you any help.

[Suss&Camm 2,213]

Several ppl have commented that what your fiancé went through is standard process. It was the same process for the interview in my country. A Swedish national lady took my papers and asked questions prior to the interview with the US IO (in Swedish at a window). Also the interview was at a window... already back in 2003 it was at a window ..this is nothing new...

Name calling to ppl that are trying to help you realize that what she went through is nothing out of the ordinary, isn't going to help you. Some self reflecting might. In any case your only option is to comply with the 221g or not get a visa.

Also.. there are several embassies that keep the passport...

Edited December 22, 2016 by Suss&Camm

[aaron2020 11,651]

You made a lot of accusations in your post. You accused the US Embassy of doing things illegally based on your perception of how your fianceew was treated. People telling you that it was normal, you call a troll. Anyone who disagrees based on their experience is trolling?

If you want sympathy and everyone to agree with you, then you will be disappointed.

If you want help, then be nice to the folks trying to help you.

Edited December 22, 2016 by aaron2020

[TBoneTX 43,003]

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