Challenging relationship remains... challenging

[TransAtlanticLove 31]

Hi all!

This site was an amazing support system when my husband and I were going through the visa process. I've got to know so many of you all offline but I'm having an issue I thought only other VJers could understand.

 

I have been married to my husband for 2 years and we are both really unhappy. There's a lot of reasons behind this that are all valid. One of them being he was initially banned while we were dating for overstaying by one week while on a visitor's visa. Thus began the uphill battle of an immediate proposal and the fun fun fun K-1 process (end sarcasm). Anyway, I am 7 years older than him and tried to prepare him for the realities of leaving his home, his job, his country, his family and friends but at the time as a 26 year old I don't think he fully comprehended what I meant. I've moved between countries and states and had to start over many times before so I was trying to impart some experienced knowledge to him.

 

Well now all the things I've mentioned he misses. We fight a lot about stuff because I am financially 100% responsible for us both and it's causing a strain. I even bought him a car! We have discussed divorce as well. While I make good money, I have 3 jobs that I'm fortunate enough to be able to do from home, he doesn't seem to appreciate the fact that I'm paying for our $5k/month lifestyle. He's almost gone through the little savings he had when he arrived. 

 

To add insult to injury he does not seem to posess nor be picking up the life skills I thought he had. He does not cook. He is very messy like a college student (I have to nag for him to clean up - ughh), he doesn't know anything about taxes, savings, retirement, health insurance or the likes. I am essentially a mother figure to him at the moment in the way I care for him.

 

He is a Momma's boy, which I knew, I just didn't fathom it to this level. I'm at my wits ends. He is very reliant on his family for money and the work connections they provided. We both come from well off families but mine taught me about hard work. I also paid for more than half of the wedding and most of my honeymoon. He says he doesn't like to argue about money because he never has in other relationships but I know this isn't like any relationship either of us has ever had. When I met him in his country he wasn't this way. He used to spoil me and put in effort to make sure we were both happy.

 

He just got his work card a couple of months ago but then the pandemic happened. Even then the work he was doing would not have produced a living wage. I feel like I married a boy and not someone who is ready to face the hard work that marriage sometimes entails. We are not connecting anymore in a lot of ways and I feel like he's resistant to "grow up" and doesn't seem to want a career or even to go back to school for another degree (which him and his Mom both offered to pay for). I don't see any drive at all to better his life or social circle as he has no friends here and is an introvert.

 

I've  also got a sneaking suspicion that he has undiagnosed ADD as he can't concentrate on conversations we have, has issues staying focused, doesn't like "serious talks", plays video games or watches TV literally ALL of the hours he is awake (never seen him read a book in 4 years), likes to watch sports and drink, and is never without his phone in his hand. None of this is a result of the lockdown, he has been like this since moving here.

 

We've gone to couples therapy a couple of times (3) but didn't continue, for one reason it was an added expense but for another he said he wasn't really getting much out of it. I think we're both depressed but he thinks depression is an "American" thing and also doesn't want the label I believe of being unhappy.

 

Our home burned down a month ago (perfect timing right?) and I was faced with the fact that it was/is all on me to sort things out and get us into a new residence. He is literally unable to help because he doesn't have income. We've been staying with a friend of mine but we can't do this forever.

 

What the hell do I do? Am I wrong for being upset and disappointed?

[NikLR 13,220]

Sounds like the type of visa you chose is really hard on both of you.  Im sorry youre having so many issue, this is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Especially not your house burning down.  He can help find a new place btw, even if he cant help financially. 

 

 Im sure he doesnt like the fact he can't work either and being reminded of the fact you're the bread winner doesnt help his self esteem or depression issues.  Depression can make us not try.

 

My husband is a messy person.  You should see his desk... it drives me BANANAS! But if I didnt clean, he would eventually.  It just wouldnt be up to my standard so I clean to keep me happy and sane.  How many memes are there about men not cleaning or thinking there are magic tables?  My anxiety wont let me wait for him to clean. Which isnt his problem.  If we stop acting like Mom to them, they stop treating us like mom. 

 

I know my husband can save, he also doesnt believe we can take anything with us so will spend money if he goes out.  I can not buy things and stick to a list or budget.  This isnt necessarily a maturity thing as a personality thing.  I accept his personality, that is part of it. 

 

Are you getting angry at the person he is?  Some of who you see is the depression.  Some of who you see is a kid because you're acting like mom. Some of who you see is just who he is.  Can you accept that part? Can you love him? 

 

I can tell you that i try to do little things to make my husband happy.  I worry about his wellbeing.  He does the same for me which makes our marriage worth working for. 

 

But if you also have depression it would be beneficial to also have therapy alone.  Our mental health isn't something we should put a price tag on.  Maybe he would also feel better with singular counseling. 

 

If you divorce before the AOS is complete he will have to go back.  If you complete AOS you will be on the hook for the affidavit of support.  Sometimes divorce is necessary, sometimes it's the easy path. Only you guys can decide.  Best wishes. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by NikLR
Added.

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

I think to be fair and looking at it from the immigrant perspective... I have no clue about the US tax system or insurances etc.. and expanding social circles is really hard particularly when not working.. 

 

Having lived in the UK I can tell you now, social circles pretty much revolve around those people you grew up with, family and those you meet in bars or at work.. your husband since moving to the US has lost pretty much all of those options that he’s used to so unless you want to encourage him to go to bars, it’s probably not going to happen anytime soon unless you get him going to work or the gym or something..

 

men generally are untidy lol, let’s face its maybe 5% of them if we’re lucky clean to our standards.. work with him on that maybe. And to be honest English food is terrible by US standards unless it’s a hot cooked breakfast then yes count me in. 

 

I’m very sorry to hear about your home, but there’s no reason why he can’t help look for another.. give him the price range, the apps and the areas your interested in and put him to work.

 

getting him out of the house can be tricky, everything here is so different and really quite intimidating to be honest, your grocery stores, drive through banks, car washes, clothing sizes and so much more, not to mention all the tv we’ve watched growing up depicting the US as violent. so it’s a little scary.. I still have no idea about how to do heaps of things I used to do back home and as a highly independent woman it’s extremely frustrating, so god only knows how it would be for a mummies boy... all I know is that 80% of the time I feel useless and I’m forever leaning on my hubby for help.. although I did work out the car wash last week and am very proud of myself 😂 

 

in no way am I saying your feelings aren’t genuine or uncalled for, I’m just trying to help you see it from might be his perspective... on the other hand he could just be lazy and need a kick up the ### to get him motivated. 

[African Zealot 1,453]

The kind of advice, validation, direction you need cannot be reasonably found on an internet message board where we only hear your side of the story.

 

Your kind of problem is what couples therapy is for and if that doesn’t work, the alternative is divorce.

 

Good luck.

[TBoneTX 43,253]

9 hours ago, TransAtlanticLove said:

I am 7 years older than him and tried to prepare him for the realities of leaving his home, his job, his country, his family and friends but at the time as a 26 year old I don't think he fully comprehended what I meant.

This seems to be fundamental.  "Age is just a number" except when "we don't know what we don't know" and resist learning what we need to know despite having been told that we need to.

 

Matters are complicated further by his introversion (which is not to be underemphasized) and the alien-to-him culture.

 

Only you can decide whether to keep applying effort.  As stated, you'll be responsible under the I-864 unless you withdraw it... and if he has his work permit already, AOS approval is probably not long off.

[yuna628 9,533]

From my perspective, as a woman, I would not and could not ever bring myself to find a momma's boy as husband material. Nor should a woman ever fool herself into thinking that she can somehow change or even 'break' such behavior. It sounds as if there were many red flags from the start of the relationship and possibly should have not progressed it to the point of marriage so quickly. It does not matter what 'level' of 'momma's boy' he's at. You knew it getting in. All levels of it will be relatively the same.

 

One thing I wanted to always stress to my husband when he decided to move here was that I never wanted there to be a point and time that he would ever ever regret such a decision. It's one of those reasons why we waited for years to finalize our plan. Yes it is normal to miss your home country, family, and friends but at some point if you actively made the decision to make two of the biggest life changes (marry and move an ocean away) you have to both truly want it for the now and the long haul. And they have to understand at times it will be hard. If there is any sort of doubt it should not be done, because the person isn't ready. 26 is not a young chicken you know? He should have been fully capable in understanding. There are things that someone from the UK would generally not be aware of in the US -- things such as health insurance, taxes, etc that you mention are all stuff *we* need to be teaching them. It's things that are culturally US-specific. They'd never understand it without some help.

 

Men are generally somewhat messy (which I tend to find starts out as distracted forgetfulness as they look at you sheepishly and cannot work out how it quickly spiraled to that state), but that is not an excuse to coddle or let him dump everything everywhere and not take responsibility. Marriage is a partnership. What was the outcome of counseling? Did he agree to make any changes or did he find the whole thing a joke? Of course he would not want to be labeled as depressed, what British male would? It would be an admittance of failure, a stripping away of the facade of 'carrying on' and a type of cultural rigidity that does not allow for men to reveal such emotions of 'weakness'. You are a little older than him of course so it may be that you've always had very different interests. At the end of the day you need to decide what it is you want and if you can see a future life without him in it. If that means divorce or additional therapy before reaching that potential point I don't know. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by yuna628

[TransAtlanticLove 31]

7 hours ago, Ray.Bonaquist said:

The kind of advice, validation, direction you need cannot be reasonably found on an internet message board where we only hear your side of the story.

 

Your kind of problem is what couples therapy is for and if that doesn’t work, the alternative is divorce.

 

Good luck.

Thank you, I'm not looking for validation, just advice from unbiased parties. And I urge you to think carefully before telling others advice and direction cannot be found online. Myself and many others have been in contact and a support system for each other during the visa process (years now) solely because of this *very* message board. Please don't discount what may be beneficial for others just because it may not be for yourself

[TransAtlanticLove 31]

Thank you @yuna628I see truths in your response. I'm definitely experiencing hindsight is 20/20. It looks like we live in the same area. As you know DC is very competitive job wise and already a very transient location. It's been hard even for myself to make friends in my 10 years here. The therapy want a joke but I could tell he felt out of depth. He has said several times that he just gets on with stuff and that Americans complain too much. He's very much a "carry on" type. Thanks again for your response.

 

Thank you @TBoneTX for your insight. You don't know what you don't know until you know. Great way of putting it. He's already gotten his AOS so that's covered. Not being able to work is wholly unhelpful right now. 

 

@Duke & Marie Thank you as well. I realize now how very different friendship is in the UK compared to here. I noticed when I was there as well. Everyone seems standoffish but it's because their friends are usually from uni or work it seems. Without those it becomes harder for them to do on their own. Both you and @NikLR mentioned general statements of "men are messy" and I just don't like doing that. Adults, regardless of gender I hope have the desire and sense to keep their homes clean without needing to be chided like children. If I ask a partner to clean up I like to feel respected and heard. But I will try to look at it the sense of not stepping forward as much to see what he can handle. I'm a natural leader and run my own business so I'm used to being in charge and/or having an equally driven and reliable partner. Much thinking will be done. I appreciate and welcome all replies

[NikLR 13,220]

Not all men are messy, in general throughout my relationships they tend to be messier.  My ex certainly wasnt but then when i put silverware in our sink he complained i was scratching the sink.  I was sweeping too hard(?). I didnt vacuum enough. So as our relationship spiraled downward with arguments he made his own lunches, i didnt do his laundry etc.  I just didnt care to take care of his wants, needs or desires.  And I left.  I grew up with a very controlling and emotionally abusive step-father.  While i learned chores, taking care of my things and responsibility, I also learned that berating someone because they do it different or slower isnt helpful to anyone.  (Im not saying you do this btw, there is a reason he was abusive and I dont assume you are!) I take that one step further even at work where I manage 18-30 year olds.  Im the boss that says thank you and well done.  And when I say something is bad they listen but I let them think of ways to improve so that they take ownership and responsibility for their own growth. I could give them my way but they are more likely to remember it when they think of it. 

 

So while my husband doesnt see the mess like I do or can happily live in the mess, having been in a controlling household growing up and in adulthood (do it my way etc) I wont be that person.  I'll just do it if I want it done or learn to ask. Sounds like you dont have an issue asking. I understand how frustrating it is when the same mess happens over and over and over.  I can remind him to do things that he said he would do and thats about as good as it gets. But also he can say no he doesnt want to do something.  I have to learn to accept that.  At least he's honest. It teaches me its also okay to say no, i don't want to do that for you and thats okay. 

[laylalex 7,252]

I want to first tell the OP: it is okay to feel frustrated, sad, maybe even a little duped right now. We want to see the very best in the people we love, all the time, and we are often willing to give those people a pass for their negative or destructive behavior. It's natural, really, that you hoped for the best early on even when you saw red flags -- like the no reading books, which if I've calculated right was something you were aware of before you were married, and the overreliance on his family, and his, well, laziness. And the messiness, of course.

 

When I met my first husband, nearly every single problem and conflict that eventually ended our marriage reared its head within the first three months of our relationship. But we were young and in love, and it was all very romantic for me -- I was on a junior year abroad in the UK -- and I decided that I was imagining things. Um, no, I wasn't! Even when our mutual friends pointed out some of the glaring problems, I thought they were ridiculous. I kept an online diary during that time and I recently re-read it for the first time in nearly 10 years and WOW: I wish I could go back and say, hey Layla, don't shove that under the rug. 

 

What I mean to say is that it can be very hard to accept that we have been mistaken about people we genuinely love. It hurts. It's sad. And I can see your love for your husband, and his love for you, shining through in your post. Sometimes we can have all the love in the world for one another and it's still not enough. And when we let the other spouse slide on their bad behavior because we love them so much, and we can see they are hurting, we're setting them up to fail again and again. Partners work together like oxen in a yoke -- you pull side by side, or you end up pulling the other one along. 

 

Don't get me started about British men and their refusal to go to therapy. I am on round number two with a Scottish man (number one was English) and he is just as unwilling as number one to open up to a third party. Even with a family history of depression, he thinks he can pummel his "little grey cloud" into submission without intervention. My only solace is that when I met him it was a "little black cloud." Culturally, they are not predisposed to letting people into their interior, difficult emotions. American men may be relatively more performatively macho, but they are (in my experience) more emotionally open after a bit of prodding. For a British man, it is box it up, stick in the ground, tamp the earth over it and pretend it isn't there. There are of course exceptions, and my fiance is trying to be more open to me but a lifetime of being taught "this is how you are a man" can be hard to undo. Patience is required, as well as persistence that doesn't veer into nagging. 

 

As others have said, only you can figure out if your marriage is worth saving. But you need to also consider your role in engendering the situation you now find yourself in, as much as his taking advantage (I mean that in a neutral sense) of your good nature. You haven't let him be a husband -- you've let him continue being a son, and a teenage son at that. He can clean up for himself, clean the house, assume responsibility for the home. He's an adult! My fiance was babied by his ex-wife and never had to lift a finger at home -- when he moved in with me, I let him get away with bad behavior for a while. I actually had to say: Socks and jeans go in the hamper. Plates and mugs and spoons and whatever go in the dishwasher. We wipe down counters. He couldn't even make food for himself unless it was something he put in the microwave! He zoned out on video games after work instead of talking to me. I finally laid down the law: we are both grown ups. I am marrying a grown up, and grown ups do boring things sometimes to keep life chugging along. He's not perfect yet, but he is trying, and I am too -- we have started playing video games together (some of the awesome people on here made recommendations on what we could play), and I don't expect it's going to be right all the time. The point is he is trying. My therapist said to me that I had to stop being his mum, because he needs a wife, not another mother. He needs a partner -- an equal. Otherwise the dynamic is a total mess.

 

Which brings me back to this: is your husband accepting he is your partner? He may be depressed, but he needs to do something to prove he sees this is worth fighting for. Right now, you are doing all the fighting. While there is always going to be give and take in a marriage -- sometimes you're leading a little, sometimes he is -- you are a team. 

 

Best of luck to you right now. I know this can be really hard. ❤️ 

[Allaboutwaiting 2,500]

You are not wrong for being upset and disappointed.

 

And I think there are two very important things you can do.

 

First, what you already did: venting, even if it is in an immigration forum. This helps you getting things out of your system in a somewhat innocuous environment, which can be very cathartic. The fact that you wrote it, helps you organizing thoughts. Verbalizing your own feelings is very useful -even if you don't share them with anyone-. And reading everyone's input gives you a new perspective. 

 

Second, which I guess you're actively doing, is questioning yourself honestly: Why did I marry him? Is he the "love of my life"? What do we share and have in common? Do I see myself with him the rest of my days? Do I want to fix things out of love, fear or guilt? Is this just a phase? 

 

Marriage is not just about romantic love. It is a quite complex team project, that ideally lasts a lifetime. As with any team project, goals have to be clear and one has to choose partner wisely. 

[milimelo 4,230]

Get him a link to USCIS manual titled Now that you’re a US permanent resident LPR and have him actually read it. It details his rights and responsibilities and different how to things. Link below: 
 

https://www.uscis.gov/tools/settling-us

[Andrew@Michelle 19]

From the outside looking in and on the basis of the information you have provided I would conclude that your husband is one lazy, juvenile little ####### and you should divorce him as soon as possible. I hope this helps.

 

Andrew Webb from England, marrying Michelle from Florida.

[cyclone27 710]

I’d say making a statement that all men are messy is inherently wrong. I am a neat freak this is how my mum and dad raised me. In fact  it drives me up the wall when things are not clean or out of place.

 

As for your husband I would put him on notice he needs to shape up or ship out. You did not sign up to be another mum but a wife. He needs to grow up and do his part in the marriage or time to divorce and move on.

[portorusa 431]

1 hour ago, Andrew@Michelle said:

From the outside looking in and on the basis of the information you have provided I would conclude that your husband is one lazy, juvenile little ####### and you should divorce him as soon as possible. I hope this helps.

 

Andrew Webb from England, marrying Michelle from Florida.

Wow, that’s a little bit too strong, Andrew from England:) Have you actually being in this young husband’s shoes? Did you see things from his perspective? 

International marriages are not for sissies, that’s for sure. Even when the same language is shared and two relatively close western cultures come together. 

Though I do not excuse his personal shortcomings, for some reason I feel sorrier for him, the new immigrant. At least OP didn’t have to change her life so drastically. If the tables were turned, how’d she feel? Moreover, she is a strong personality and comes along as a bossy, controlling, no-nonsense, label-everything woman. I may be wrong, it’s only my opinion but I see this marriage as a hasty mistake of two mismatch personalities and I don’t think it will survive  the problems...which are too deep. Again, I want to be mistaken.