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so today my wife was denied her tourist visa for the second time.

first time we were not married and I just tried to sponsor her. 

We got married in a Catholic Church on July 1 2018 in Bali 6 months after her first interview.  We did marriage classes and I even got baptized.

this is a legit marriage.

she has only traveled once to Thailand with me  and never traveled anywhere else than that. Her passport is valid with the one visa stamp from Thailand which the agent looked at. My wife owns her own event organizing business which she built from the ground up after her first husband died in a motorcycle accident . She had one daughter from that marriage. She provided for her daughter while she worked as a single mom in Bali originally from Java Indonesia. Her ties are strong in Indonesia. Family, Business , Cars, Properties she will inherit one day, and most of all Indonesian Pride. She has no desire to live permanently outside of Indonesia. 

 

first letter I received:

this is a standard letter issued to all request and complaints regarding questions on denial......

Thank you for your email.  We are writing in response to your letter to the Nonimmigrant Visa Unit concerning the nonimmigrant visa case of Veronica Virgawati.  Visa applications are adjudicated in accordance with the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).  While visa records cannot be disclosed to third parties, the majority of refusals occur under section 214(b) of the INA.  This section of the law explicitly presumes every visitor visa applicant to be an intending immigrant and places the burden of disproving this presumption on the applicant. 
 
We assure you that the Consular Section scrutinizes every application and works hard to issue visas to all qualified applicants.  As explained above, consular officers are required by law to presume that all applicants are intending immigrants to the United States, and to judge solely the qualifications of the applicants themselves.  Each applicant must, on his or her own merits, establish eligibility to receive a U.S. visa.  Representations by third parties or supporting documentation cannot establish visa eligibility for an applicant.  Consular officers examine each application individually to determine whether the applicant qualifies for visa issuance according to U.S. immigration law and regulation.  When determining eligibility for a visa, the officer takes into consideration the applicant’s entire situation, including family, community, professional, and economic ties to the applicant’s home country as well as prior travel history and any ties to the United States. 
 
Visa adjudications are final and cannot be appealed.  Reconsideration for a visa can only happen in the context of a new visa interview.  Applicants who wish to reapply must follow the same application procedures as before.  A refusal under section 214(b) is not permanent and she may reapply for a visa at any time.  However, we recommend that applicants wait until they are able to present new evidence which addresses the previous grounds of ineligibility.  Please note that reapplying is not a guarantee that a visa will be issued.  We assure you that any future application will be given every possible consideration consistent with U.S. immigration law.

We hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,

Nonimmigrant Visa Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General Surabaya
ConSurabaya@state.gov
 

second letter from consulate:

As we explained, we cannot provide specific details to you about your wife’s case due to privacy laws.  Visa adjudications are final and cannot be appealed. 

 

Documents are not considered as part of the visa application process.  Eligibility for a visa is determined via an assessment of the ties presented in the application and interview.  This is the worldwide standard.  

 

Regards,

 

Nonimmigrant Visa Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General Surabaya
ConSurabaya@state.gov

http://www.ustraveldocs.com/id

 

questions asked during interview in order

1. Did you get refused for your visa application last time you were here?

Answer yes

 

2. When did you get married ?

answer: July 1st 2018

 

3. What does your husband do for work?

answer: sales manager of a roofing company in Colorado Springs Colorado USA.

 

4.what do you do for work?

 

Answer I am a event organizer (she’s actually the owner/ operator which is on the application )

 

5. What is your income and why is it more money than last year ?

 

answer: because I have increasing revenue.

(she had more clients this year, they doubled but this was not clarified)

 

6. Do you have kids?  If you go to USA then who will take care of her? 

 

Answer: she is 26 years old , she can take care of herself.

 

7. What is your reason for wanting to visit the USA ?

 

answer: Visiting my parents in-law. Q~Who is “David .....” A~ he is my father in law. Q-Who is Gerald ..... A~my husband 

 

8. She repeated same question twice :

how old is your daughter? 

 

Answer : 26

 

Consulate agent started to type her notes and then told my wife;

sorry, you are ineligible to visit the USA .

handed her paper with information for rejected applicants.

 

my wife was in awww and shock and left the building.

 

there were about 130 applicants and 4 were rejected .  My wife being one of them.

 

The ones that that were rejected came alone, the others that were approved were either couples or families.

 

I am a is citizen who works part time in the states, don’t i have a right to have my wife accompany me , and does she not have a right to meet her family in law in the states.

 

if we wanted to , we could just apply for. Immigrant visa and be approved but we wouldn’t stay permanently. Neither of us want to live in the USA.

i understand that the consulate automatically assumes all tourist visas have intentions of migrating.... but this is not the case with us.

 

We will apply again next year even though we can apply before that.

my father has Parkinson’s and my mom has dementia and both are 80 this June 2019. I want her to meet them as they are wanting to meet her.

 

my question to the community of this website:

what are we doing wrong? How do we show strong ties when she has already? We think she is showing strong ties. The questions on the application don’t really prove evidence either so how are they just assuming she doesn’t have ties? Unless of course they just automatically deny all married to foreigner applicants with no family going with them?  Do they assume all marriages are fake just so they can become a us citizen?

 

please advise us on what we should do.

thank you for taking the time to read this.

i am on halo bule on every social platform if you want to contact me.

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3 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:

so today my wife was denied her tourist visa for the second time.

first time we were not married and I just tried to sponsor her. 

We got married in a Catholic Church on July 1 2018 in Bali 6 months after her first interview.  We did marriage classes and I even got baptized.

this is a legit marriage.

she has only traveled once to Thailand with me  and never traveled anywhere else than that. Her passport is valid with the one visa stamp from Thailand which the agent looked at. My wife owns her own event organizing business which she built from the ground up after her first husband died in a motorcycle accident . She had one daughter from that marriage. She provided for her daughter while she worked as a single mom in Bali originally from Java Indonesia. Her ties are strong in Indonesia. Family, Business , Cars, Properties she will inherit one day, and most of all Indonesian Pride. She has no desire to live permanently outside of Indonesia. 

 

first letter I received:

this is a standard letter issued to all request and complaints regarding questions on denial......

Thank you for your email.  We are writing in response to your letter to the Nonimmigrant Visa Unit concerning the nonimmigrant visa case of Veronica Virgawati.  Visa applications are adjudicated in accordance with the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).  While visa records cannot be disclosed to third parties, the majority of refusals occur under section 214(b) of the INA.  This section of the law explicitly presumes every visitor visa applicant to be an intending immigrant and places the burden of disproving this presumption on the applicant. 
 
We assure you that the Consular Section scrutinizes every application and works hard to issue visas to all qualified applicants.  As explained above, consular officers are required by law to presume that all applicants are intending immigrants to the United States, and to judge solely the qualifications of the applicants themselves.  Each applicant must, on his or her own merits, establish eligibility to receive a U.S. visa.  Representations by third parties or supporting documentation cannot establish visa eligibility for an applicant.  Consular officers examine each application individually to determine whether the applicant qualifies for visa issuance according to U.S. immigration law and regulation.  When determining eligibility for a visa, the officer takes into consideration the applicant’s entire situation, including family, community, professional, and economic ties to the applicant’s home country as well as prior travel history and any ties to the United States. 
 
Visa adjudications are final and cannot be appealed.  Reconsideration for a visa can only happen in the context of a new visa interview.  Applicants who wish to reapply must follow the same application procedures as before.  A refusal under section 214(b) is not permanent and she may reapply for a visa at any time.  However, we recommend that applicants wait until they are able to present new evidence which addresses the previous grounds of ineligibility.  Please note that reapplying is not a guarantee that a visa will be issued.  We assure you that any future application will be given every possible consideration consistent with U.S. immigration law.

We hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,

Nonimmigrant Visa Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General Surabaya
ConSurabaya@state.gov
 

second letter from consulate:

As we explained, we cannot provide specific details to you about your wife’s case due to privacy laws.  Visa adjudications are final and cannot be appealed. 

 

Documents are not considered as part of the visa application process.  Eligibility for a visa is determined via an assessment of the ties presented in the application and interview.  This is the worldwide standard.  

 

Regards,

 

Nonimmigrant Visa Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General Surabaya
ConSurabaya@state.gov

http://www.ustraveldocs.com/id

 

questions asked during interview in order

1. Did you get refused for your visa application last time you were here?

Answer yes

 

2. When did you get married ?

answer: July 1st 2018

 

3. What does your husband do for work?

answer: sales manager of a roofing company in Colorado Springs Colorado USA.

 

4.what do you do for work?

 

Answer I am a event organizer (she’s actually the owner/ operator which is on the application )

 

5. What is your income and why is it more money than last year ?

 

answer: because I have increasing revenue.

(she had more clients this year, they doubled but this was not clarified)

 

6. Do you have kids?  If you go to USA then who will take care of her? 

 

Answer: she is 26 years old , she can take care of herself.

 

7. What is your reason for wanting to visit the USA ?

 

answer: Visiting my parents in-law. Q~Who is “David .....” A~ he is my father in law. Q-Who is Gerald ..... A~my husband 

 

8. She repeated same question twice :

how old is your daughter? 

 

Answer : 26

 

Consulate agent started to type her notes and then told my wife;

sorry, you are ineligible to visit the USA .

handed her paper with information for rejected applicants.

 

my wife was in awww and shock and left the building.

 

there were about 130 applicants and 4 were rejected .  My wife being one of them.

 

The ones that that were rejected came alone, the others that were approved were either couples or families.

 

I am a is citizen who works part time in the states, don’t i have a right to have my wife accompany me , and does she not have a right to meet her family in law in the states.

The simple answer here is no, she does not have that right by simply being married to a USC.

3 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:

 

if we wanted to , we could just apply for. Immigrant visa and be approved but we wouldn’t stay permanently. Neither of us want to live in the USA.

i understand that the consulate automatically assumes all tourist visas have intentions of migrating.... but this is not the case with us.

GCs are not meant to be multi-entry visas, so this would be a lot of money and you would have to show some form of domicile to the US at some point in the process.

3 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:

 

We will apply again next year even though we can apply before that.

my father has Parkinson’s and my mom has dementia and both are 80 this June 2019. I want her to meet them as they are wanting to meet her.

Unless things have changed significantly from the past two applications as to the evidence presented, then another application is just a #######-shoot, but each subsequent consular officer will see the previous denials as well as any notes.

3 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:

 

my question to the community of this website:

what are we doing wrong? How do we show strong ties when she has already? We think she is showing strong ties. The questions on the application don’t really prove evidence either so how are they just assuming she doesn’t have ties? Unless of course they just automatically deny all married to foreigner applicants with no family going with them?  Do they assume all marriages are fake just so they can become a us citizen?

They don't automatically deny all foreigners married to USCs and they don't assume all marriages are fake, however they do generally assume that anyone applying for an NIV has immigration intent.  Btw, you mentioned you wanted your wife to accompany you on a trip to the states, so wouldn't she be traveling with family?

3 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:

 

please advise us on what we should do.

thank you for taking the time to read this.

i am on halo bule on every social platform if you want to contact me.

Maybe more travel if possible to show more of a entry and exit history from other countries.  I know it is tough, especially for a spouse working abroad not being able to come to the US for a visit.  I had a similar situation, but at the time it was my fiancé, she tried twice to get a B2 and was denied both times primarily due to a US based fiancé (me), my parents were older and sadly both died before she was able to meet them in person, it sucks, but the history of abuse of B2s and other NIVs drives most of this.

 

Good Luck!


Visa Received : 2014-04-04 (K1 - see timeline for details)

US Entry : 2014-09-12

POE: Detroit

Marriage : 2014-09-27

I-765 Approved: 2015-01-09

I-485 Interview: 2015-03-11

I-485 Approved: 2015-03-13

Green Card Received: 2015-03-24 Yeah!!!

I-751 ROC Submitted: 2016-12-20

I-751 NOA Received:  2016-12-29

I-751 Biometrics Appt.:  2017-01-26

I-751 Interview:  2018-04-10

I-751 Approved:  2018-05-04

N400 Filed:  2018-01-13

N400 Biometrics:  2018-02-22

N400 Interview:  2018-04-10

N400 Approved:  2018-04-10

Oath Ceremony:  2018-06-11 - DONE!!!!!!!

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Posted (edited)

hi

 

you are her strongest tie, as she stated, her daughter is 26 and can take care of herself, she can take care of the business and properties for her as well.  the questions were about the daughter and the importance of her age, since she will inherit the business, she can take care of the business for her for now and then the business will be her own in the future. she is old enough to be in charge of everything she has, and administrate it while your wife comes to live with you in the US.

 

she can come here and adjust status, I don't believe they think it is fake, but that she can immigrate to the US because of you. This is most likely somewhat their thinking for the denials, travel more and wait for things to change before applying again

Edited by aleful

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First thoughts 

- no, a visa is not a right 

- the answer about what you do = job in the US. Big red flag for immigrant intent. If you were settled in & had a permanent job in Indonesia then the implication is different. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:

My job is a red flag? Even if it’s seasonal ?

never thought of that. I do help with my wife’s company here so maybe this can count as employment?

I relied on what you said. 

 

3. What does your husband do for work?

answer: sales manager of a roofing company in Colorado Springs Colorado USA.

 

Working for the company of the person trying to get a visa ... not a great option imo as obviously huge scope for misrep. 

 

you didn’t mention this I think - presumably you have some kind of resident visa in Indonesia. Property ? Did your wife mention any of this?

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5 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

I relied on what you said. 

 

3. What does your husband do for work?

answer: sales manager of a roofing company in Colorado Springs Colorado USA.

 

Working for the company of the person trying to get a visa ... not a great option imo as obviously huge scope for misrep. 

 

you didn’t mention this I think - presumably you have some kind of resident visa in Indonesia. Property ? Did your wife mention any of this?

I agree, the CO in this case did seem to probe the family ties (daughter and husband) which may have ended up being the deal breaker for her B2 applications.


Visa Received : 2014-04-04 (K1 - see timeline for details)

US Entry : 2014-09-12

POE: Detroit

Marriage : 2014-09-27

I-765 Approved: 2015-01-09

I-485 Interview: 2015-03-11

I-485 Approved: 2015-03-13

Green Card Received: 2015-03-24 Yeah!!!

I-751 ROC Submitted: 2016-12-20

I-751 NOA Received:  2016-12-29

I-751 Biometrics Appt.:  2017-01-26

I-751 Interview:  2018-04-10

I-751 Approved:  2018-05-04

N400 Filed:  2018-01-13

N400 Biometrics:  2018-02-22

N400 Interview:  2018-04-10

N400 Approved:  2018-04-10

Oath Ceremony:  2018-06-11 - DONE!!!!!!!

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@SusieQQQ my wife sponsors me , spouse visa sponsorship / Kitas 

and I help her with her business by just moving things, building websites, marketing and posting events, photography.... for free of course and not this was not mentioned or asked about ... the whole interview process happens very quickly. Wife said the interviewer never even looked up at her, her nose was buried in the computer screen reading the old notes from prior consulate agent.

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@SusieQQQ my wife sponsors me , spouse visa sponsorship / Kitas 

and I help her with her business by just moving things, building websites, marketing and posting events, photography.... for free of course and no this  was not mentioned or asked about ... the whole interview process happened so quickly. Wife Said the CO never even looked up at her, her nose was buried in the computer screen reading the old notes from prior consulate agent. I work seasonally, I make 100k a year selling roof systems within 3 to 5 months, and then I travel. I’ve traveled my whole life. Now my wife wants to do the same. I understand bad seeds have ruined it for others by overstaying their visas. I just don’t agree with their process of denial. 

I have a deeper understanding of their interrogation methodology or screening. Thank you and I will keep reading your reply’s! 

 

Gerry 

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26 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:
 I work seasonally, I make 100k a year selling roof systems within 3 to 5 months, and then I travel. I’ve traveled my whole life. Now my wife wants to do the same. I understand bad seeds have ruined it for others by overstaying their visas. I just don’t agree with their process of denial. 

Your and your wife’s responses simply prove she has more stronger ties to US than to Indonesia that will likely result in denial again. An adult daughter and properties/business aren’t considered stronger ties compared to a US citizen spouse, the one she married to live with and who happens to earn >100K in 3-5 months in the US.

 

May be once you are done with earning for the year, start living in Indonesia, have her apply for it again with the plan of you two traveling together to the US and both returning back to Indonesia. Not guaranteed for the visa but it may increase the chances of approval. 


Spouse:

2015-06-16: I-130 Sent

2015-08-17: I-130 approved

2015-09-23: NVC received file

2015-10-05: NVC assigned Case number, Invoice ID & Beneficiary ID

2016-06-30: DS-261 completed, AOS Fee Paid, WL received

2016-07-05: Received IV invoice, IV Fee Paid

2016-07-06: DS-260 Submitted

2016-07-07: AOS and IV Package mailed

2016-07-08: NVC Scan

2016-08-08: Case Complete

2017-06-30: Interview, approved

2017-07-04: Visa in hand

2017-08-01: Entry to US

.

.

.

.

Myself:

2016-05-10: N-400 Sent

2016-05-16: N-400 NOA1

2016-05-26: Biometrics

2017-01-30: Interview

2017-03-02: Oath Ceremony

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She can apply as often as she likes, seems to have a weak case but nobody on here can say she will or will not at some point get a visa.


“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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@arken thank you , I think they already knew we were traveling together and returning to Indonesia once finished visiting USA .  I think I will try to figure out work here in Indonesia since I won’t be able to climb roofs forever. But yes it seems as though my original thinking was backwards. I now understand the consulates thinking. Thanks 

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@Boiler yes , she will not give up. We will try again at almost $300 usd per application . Maybe a few more visa stamps will help and a job locally in a Indonesia. I had hoped it would be a yes this time so she could meet my parents. ... yes I think I had everything backwards 

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