My Indo wife was denied twice for tourist visa

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

45 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Obama deported more.

So Trump is actually weak on immigration? Well, ok then. More bluster. Off topic. 

[gabluc 171]

10 hours ago, Halo Bule said:

so today my wife was denied her tourist visa for the second time.

first time we were not married and I just tried to sponsor her. 

We got married in a Catholic Church on July 1 2018 in Bali 6 months after her first interview.  We did marriage classes and I even got baptized.

this is a legit marriage.

she has only traveled once to Thailand with me  and never traveled anywhere else than that. Her passport is valid with the one visa stamp from Thailand which the agent looked at. My wife owns her own event organizing business which she built from the ground up after her first husband died in a motorcycle accident . She had one daughter from that marriage. She provided for her daughter while she worked as a single mom in Bali originally from Java Indonesia. Her ties are strong in Indonesia. Family, Business , Cars, Properties she will inherit one day, and most of all Indonesian Pride. She has no desire to live permanently outside of Indonesia. 

 

first letter I received:

this is a standard letter issued to all request and complaints regarding questions on denial......

Thank you for your email.  We are writing in response to your letter to the Nonimmigrant Visa Unit concerning the nonimmigrant visa case of Veronica Virgawati.  Visa applications are adjudicated in accordance with the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).  While visa records cannot be disclosed to third parties, the majority of refusals occur under section 214(b) of the INA.  This section of the law explicitly presumes every visitor visa applicant to be an intending immigrant and places the burden of disproving this presumption on the applicant. 
 
We assure you that the Consular Section scrutinizes every application and works hard to issue visas to all qualified applicants.  As explained above, consular officers are required by law to presume that all applicants are intending immigrants to the United States, and to judge solely the qualifications of the applicants themselves.  Each applicant must, on his or her own merits, establish eligibility to receive a U.S. visa.  Representations by third parties or supporting documentation cannot establish visa eligibility for an applicant.  Consular officers examine each application individually to determine whether the applicant qualifies for visa issuance according to U.S. immigration law and regulation.  When determining eligibility for a visa, the officer takes into consideration the applicant’s entire situation, including family, community, professional, and economic ties to the applicant’s home country as well as prior travel history and any ties to the United States. 
 
Visa adjudications are final and cannot be appealed.  Reconsideration for a visa can only happen in the context of a new visa interview.  Applicants who wish to reapply must follow the same application procedures as before.  A refusal under section 214(b) is not permanent and she may reapply for a visa at any time.  However, we recommend that applicants wait until they are able to present new evidence which addresses the previous grounds of ineligibility.  Please note that reapplying is not a guarantee that a visa will be issued.  We assure you that any future application will be given every possible consideration consistent with U.S. immigration law.

We hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,

Nonimmigrant Visa Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General Surabaya
ConSurabaya@state.gov
 

second letter from consulate:

As we explained, we cannot provide specific details to you about your wife’s case due to privacy laws.  Visa adjudications are final and cannot be appealed. 

 

Documents are not considered as part of the visa application process.  Eligibility for a visa is determined via an assessment of the ties presented in the application and interview.  This is the worldwide standard.  

 

Regards,

 

Nonimmigrant Visa Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General Surabaya
ConSurabaya@state.gov

http://www.ustraveldocs.com/id

 

questions asked during interview in order

1. Did you get refused for your visa application last time you were here?

Answer : yes

 

2. When did you get married ?

answer: July 1st 2018

 

3. What does your husband do for work?

answer: sales manager of a roofing company in Colorado Springs Colorado USA.

 

4.what do you do for work?

 

Answer I am a event organizer (she’s actually the owner/ operator which is on the application )

 

5. What is your income and why is it more money than last year ?

 

answer: because I have increasing revenue.

(she had more clients this year, they doubled but this was not clarified)

 

6. Do you have kids?  If you go to USA then who will take care of her? 

 

Answer: she is 26 years old , she can take care of herself.

 

7. What is your reason for wanting to visit the USA ?

 

answer: Visiting my parents in-law. Q~Who is “David .....” A~ he is my father in law. Q-Who is Gerald ..... A~my husband 

 

8. She repeated same question twice :

how old is your daughter? 

 

Answer : 26

 

Consulate agent started to type her notes and then told my wife;

sorry, you are ineligible to visit the USA .

handed her paper with information for rejected applicants.

 

my wife was in awww and shock and left the building.

 

there were about 130 applicants and 4 were rejected .  My wife being one of them.

 

The ones that that were rejected came alone, the others that were approved were either couples or families.

 

I am a is citizen who works part time in the states, don’t i have a right to have my wife accompany me , and does she not have a right to meet her family in law in the states.

 

if we wanted to , we could just apply for. Immigrant visa and be approved but we wouldn’t stay permanently. Neither of us want to live in the USA.

i understand that the consulate automatically assumes all tourist visas have intentions of migrating.... but this is not the case with us.

 

We will apply again next year even though we can apply before that.

my father has Parkinson’s and my mom has dementia and both are 80 this June 2019. I want her to meet them as they are wanting to meet her.

 

my question to the community of this website:

what are we doing wrong? How do we show strong ties when she has already? We think she is showing strong ties. The questions on the application don’t really prove evidence either so how are they just assuming she doesn’t have ties? Unless of course they just automatically deny all married to foreigner applicants with no family going with them?  Do they assume all marriages are fake just so they can become a us citizen?

 

please advise us on what we should do.

thank you for taking the time to read this.

i am on halo bule on every social platform if you want to contact me.

My husband got denied 6 times for a tourist visa.

 

Someone in the embassy told him flatly 'they will never approve the spouse of a US citizen, file your green card' 

[geowrian 22,335]

Raw numbers rarely tell a good story, especially when the subject moves so slowly. During the previous administration, more deportations occurred. At the same time, the annual number was cut in half by the end of the administration. The number is (modestly) increasing again. Whether this is a normal ebb and flow or a result of changes policies & enforcement is political fodder.

[nastra30 1,984]

OP, I apologize if you've already addressed this but I didn't come across it going through the thread. Have you considered just petitioning for your wife by filing I-130?

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

30 minutes ago, nastra30 said:

OP, I apologize if you've already addressed this but I didn't come across it going through the thread. Have you considered just petitioning for your wife by filing I-130?

OP stated more than once their intention is to live in Indonesia.

Edited May 29, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[Halo Bule 8]

bottom line is ... 

 

This  situation isn’t the greatest but yes life will go on although my wife feels like a bad person  , like she’s done something wrong when in fact she is a beautiful person and did absolutely nothing wrong. 

She was nervous at both interviews and made the worst mistake on the first interview by denying I was not her boyfriend at the time after They asked that question. 

They obviously decided right then she had intent to immigrate to USA and made their notes.

those notes were read by most recent interviewer and were still convinced she had intent to remain in USA which is false but still assumed

after her interview yesterday my wife feels broken inside, because all she wants is to meet my father. They talk on the phone together, my dad has even said he will write his congressman. I told my dad  it wouldn’t matter if Donald Trump wrote s letter because the consulate doesn’t look at documents. They only go off the original application , the interview and the notes from prior interview.

why did I think trump changed laws and regulations already... it was must a assumption the same way the USA thinks every immigrant wants to live in USA which is completely false. There are more natives leaving the USA now than ever including  myself. I have my own reasons and I love my country so don’t get me wrong. As far as politics go, I shouldn’t have brought it up. Your right ,  no major changes have been made especially for tourist visa / NIV. I believe the last change had to do with children that belonged to immigrants made by Obama. I could google it but I’m not since it’s unrelated to my post.

so we are back to square one regarding my wife visiting the USA. I will not step foot on American soil without her. That was the promise I gave her last refusal even though she knows I need to work. I will try to figure out another source of income and adjust accordingly. This morning I tried to convince her that Europe was a better place to visit, but she knew I was just trying to make her feel human again.

She will keep trying, we will keep trying , we will keep being honest to. Hopefully my wife will speak up more to try and convince the consulate she has no intentions of staying in USA. I will have to look at the application to see if there are questions that can determine sh has strong ties to Indonesia. I don’t think she missed anything.

strong ties include , Indo bank accounts, properties, family..but according to everyone on here her ties are stronger to the USA because she’s married to a US citizen who still works there. So I will have to cut my ties to my own country in order for my wife / my family just to visit my father before he dies? Sounds ludicrous to me. I will find a job in Indonesia which pays much less, travel with Amy wife to as many developed countries for stamps in her passport showing entry and  exits which may or may not convince the consulate that she has no intention of staying in USA. 

Also the daughter will be married before next year and may not work any more for my wife so that will show the CO she can’t just leave her business behind correct ? Especially if I become her partner or work for her?

 

thanks for the great perspective on things here folks 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Halo Bule

[Halo Bule 8]

@SusieQQQ no have not looked into I-130

should we ? I thought this was just to immigrate which is not our intent. We do not want to lie.... Bali is our home

[Halo Bule 8]

@SusieQQQ does the I-130 have to be permanent or can my wife decide to return to Indonesia and stop the immigration process due to being homesick? Or business related? Or family? This is my point.... we do have ties to Indonesia. We can’t live in the USA .This is the point my wife tried to make inside the Consulate Office.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

24 minutes ago, Halo Bule said:

@SusieQQQ no have not looked into I-130

should we ? I thought this was just to immigrate which is not our intent. We do not want to lie.... Bali is our home

I wasn't the one who suggested this, i was telling the person who did that you don't want to immigrate. No there is no point doing it for you if you don't want a green card for her.

 

I see there is an important piece of information that you left out of your original story, which is that your wife lied about her involvement with you. Surely you can see that is a massive red flag - usually denial of a relationship is a signal that the person does intend to overstay. Moreover material misrepresentation - misstating a fact that could influence a visa application, as this could clearly be - is a reason for denial. It's a pity your wife was so nervous that she lied to the CO,but that has serious consequences.

 

And you are right that a congressman can do nothing, there is something called the principle of consular non-reviewability, which means that there is no appealing or reviewing a decision made by an officer in a consulate or embassy outside the US.

 

[JFH 12,189]

They don’t think your marriage is fake. Quite the opposite and take it as a compliment. They think your wife loves you so much and you love her so much that at the end of her visit she will not be able to even consider leaving you behind and returning home without you. 

[Halo Bule 8]

@SusieQQQ one last question ;  in the first interview they asked who I was because I was sponsoring her. She replied he’s my friend which was true at the time. Yes I had feelings for her at the time but we were not officially together yet. We were in fact friends. On the other hand she was so nervous that maybe the Consulate assumed she was just lying because of fear of not being approved.

 

I don’t know exactly what the Consulate thought about that but I’m assuming they made notes to that effect.

 

 

what are your thoughts on this? And if they do think she lied then how do we prove to them that’s not the case?

[SalishSea 16,770]

1 hour ago, Halo Bule said:

@SusieQQQ one last question ;  in the first interview they asked who I was because I was sponsoring her. She replied he’s my friend which was true at the time. Yes I had feelings for her at the time but we were not officially together yet. We were in fact friends. On the other hand she was so nervous that maybe the Consulate assumed she was just lying because of fear of not being approved.

 

I don’t know exactly what the Consulate thought about that but I’m assuming they made notes to that effect.

 

 

what are your thoughts on this? And if they do think she lied then how do we prove to them that’s not the case?

There is no sponsoring of a tourist visa.

 

Prove what?  Each subsequent application is adjudicated based on the totality of the applicant’s current situation.    If they suspect she lied in an attempt to increase her odds of getting a tourist visa, then they suspect she lied.  There really is nothing to refute and they certainly won’t modify any notes from that interview.

 

Their suspicion that she has immigrant intent now is Based on her most recent interview, not that first one.

[JE57 239]

I think your path to getting her a tourist Visa no longer involves her strong ties to Indonesia that has already proved to be a non-starter.  The key then would be to turn her strong ties to you (her Husband) into a positive.  How to do that.   You move to Indonesia.  She says on the next interview that you live with her in Indonesia more than 6 months of the year.  (which is sounds like you do).  You go back to the USA for some months to do your job that nets 100K plus in a short time.  It is unlikely that any ties or future travel that she could accumulate will overcome the presumption that she will stay and adjust status once she gets to the USA.  The current process for getting a spousal visa is 1 to 2 years and expensive and time consuming so the presumption is that it would be faster and easier for your wife to migrate with a tourist visa and then to adjust from that once she's in the USA. 

So the other path you have is to file for the spousal visa... Enventually when she gets it use that, visit the USA , and then go back to Indonesia as planned and return the greencard and apply for a B2 at about the same time.  Ideally submit the B2 application and then return the greencard.  Proves she doesn't need the B2 to go but has desire to go with you occasionally

to visit.  Others have done this with success but bear in mind it is at least a 1 year process. 

  Also,  you may want to consider that if you are eligible for Social Security in the future that she will not be eligible for benefits on your earnings records even as your wife unless she has 'status' in the USA (A resident (green card) or citizen).  After being married for 2 years she gets a 10 year greencard and more importantly is eligible for citizenship after 3 years if she has spend at 180+ days in the USA.   Bigger picture kind of things to consider perhaps.

 

[Halo Bule 8]

@JE57 sounds like a plan to me, thank you for the advice. Best one I’ve read on here so far.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

3 hours ago, JE57 said:

. 

  Also,  you may want to consider that if you are eligible for Social Security in the future that she will not be eligible for benefits on your earnings records even as your wife unless she has 'status' in the USA (A resident (green card) or citizen).  After being married for 2 years she gets a 10 year greencard and more importantly is eligible for citizenship after 3 years if she has spend at 180+ days in the USA.   Bigger picture kind of things to consider perhaps.

If they want to reside in Indonesia then this doesn’t work. 

Sponsor has to show domicile in the US for wife to get green card.

You neglected to mention wife also becomes liable to start filing taxes with irs every year regardless where she lives if she has a green card.

Edited May 30, 2019 by SusieQQQ