Is this FRAUD???

[AliTan 53]

My fiance had his interview in Pakistan yesterday and was denied.  We are devastated but will not give up.  Without looking at the evidence of relationship that my fiance brought, the officer stated at the end, "You did not satisfy me.  I think this is immigration fraud." He was not given a 221g or any other form. I know I have to wait for them to send me something. (How long does that take?) I'm just looking for opinions.  Does it sound like this could actually be labeled fraud, resulting in a lifetime ban?  He said the officer was nice, didn't yell, asked pretty standard questions.  We think the question that caused the problem was about my child.  He asked if I was divorced. My fiance said never married.  Then asked if I had a child without marriage. Yes (18 years ago).  He then asked if my fiance's parents know that.  He answered truthfully and said no. That's pretty much when the interview stopped.  I get that it's a red flag, and we have others such as I'm 10 years older, I am not Muslim, I have not been to Pakistan, we only met once before applying though met a second time while waiting. So I understand why it could be denied and we will work on that, but how can it be fraud when he told the truth? He doesn't need family permission to get married, though his family is supportive (minus the kid they don't know about yet).  And how can he decide the relationship isn't real without even pretending to look at the evidence?  I'm just really afraid we will be faced with trying to fight a ban.  

[Ben&Zian 4,397]

15 minutes ago, AliTan said:

My fiance had his interview in Pakistan yesterday and was denied.  We are devastated but will not give up.  Without looking at the evidence of relationship that my fiance brought, the officer stated at the end, "You did not satisfy me.  I think this is immigration fraud." He was not given a 221g or any other form. I know I have to wait for them to send me something. (How long does that take?) I'm just looking for opinions.  Does it sound like this could actually be labeled fraud, resulting in a lifetime ban?  He said the officer was nice, didn't yell, asked pretty standard questions.  We think the question that caused the problem was about my child.  He asked if I was divorced. My fiance said never married.  Then asked if I had a child without marriage. Yes (18 years ago).  He then asked if my fiance's parents know that.  He answered truthfully and said no. That's pretty much when the interview stopped.  I get that it's a red flag, and we have others such as I'm 10 years older, I am not Muslim, I have not been to Pakistan, we only met once before applying though met a second time while waiting. So I understand why it could be denied and we will work on that, but how can it be fraud when he told the truth? He doesn't need family permission to get married, though his family is supportive (minus the kid they don't know about yet).  And how can he decide the relationship isn't real without even pretending to look at the evidence?  I'm just really afraid we will be faced with trying to fight a ban.  

 

This is common. The CO doesn't have to look at any extra evidence given. They can generally make a decision off the initial I-129f petition they receive from NVC. So it must have been relatively weak in information and evidence.

 

Also, the 10 years I don't think is too bad, but with Pakistan, if completely out of the norm of the culture, then yes there's one red flag.

His family giving support is good; but not having met them, for the culture could be another flag.

Never having been to his home country, just a 'third party' meeting place could seem out of place.

The family not knowing about the child is definately a flag probably to the CO as the family then may not approve.

The difference in religion can always come up as an issue especially with Muslim and non-Muslims from what I understand.

 

It isn't a lifetime ban or anything(unless his misrepresented himself and lied outright), it  just means the K-1 visa was out right denied it sounds like. Him being honest obviously was very important. There is nothing you can do. If it was denied the petition will return to USCIS to sit and expire. 

You have a couple options, write and withdrawls the petition.... or wait for it to expire.. Make a few more trips and then reapply for the K-1 visa (meaning go through whole process again), or you can marry and file for a CR-1 spousal visa...

But, and this is important, just marrying and going the spousal visa route does not "fix" the issues. These still need to be resolved or it can be denied again.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Ben&Zian

[Roel 7,191]

Spend more time together, gather more evidences of your relationship and apply again. Make sure you know each other good enough so you can answer basic questions about your relationship.

[AliTan 53]

Thanks for the replies so far.  We are deciding which route to go.  Would it be unwise to file another k1 soon with the evidence of the second trip that the co didn't look at, with plans to meet again in January either in Pakistan or elsewhere with some of his family? Or get married, probably in Seychelles with some family present? In either case I would also plan to attend the next interview, and he will tell his parents about my child so that isn't an issue.  We're looking at a minimum of another year in this process and I can't make trips across the world more than maybe twice a year. I don't want to be foolish and file again too soon, but I also don't want to wait years. I'm still worried by the use of the word fraud because that could be an impossible battle.

[Ben&Zian 4,397]

3 minutes ago, AliTan said:

Thanks for the replies so far.  We are deciding which route to go.  Would it be unwise to file another k1 soon with the evidence of the second trip that the co didn't look at, with plans to meet again in January either in Pakistan or elsewhere with some of his family? Or get married, probably in Seychelles with some family present? In either case I would also plan to attend the next interview, and he will tell his parents about my child so that isn't an issue.  We're looking at a minimum of another year in this process and I can't make trips across the world more than maybe twice a year. I don't want to be foolish and file again too soon, but I also don't want to wait years. I'm still worried by the use of the word fraud because that could be an impossible battle.

 

Marriage fraud is generic so to say of just using the relationship as a way to get the US. As long as he hasn't misrespresented himself, again out right lied on any forms and all, then it won't come back as an issue.

 

As to which route it is totally up to you. Some will give you pointers on which way is "better" but the choice is yours. 

 

You can file again whenever you want but just make sure to withdraw the old petition if infact it does get returned to USCIS.

 

Meeting the family, more visits, them knowing everything about the child and giving approval, more visits, these are key things.

 

The age difference may still come into play as well as difference in religions; but these can be overcome with strong evidence. 

 

We all for the most part understand about travel time, expenses, ect... but nothing in this whole process or dating internationally is cheap or easy.

[Crazy Cat 39,312]

In this kind of situation, the best remedy is time together.........that will help to overcome all the red flags.  Unfortunately, this K-1 is dead, and it is now on the record.  Have you given any thought to relocating to Pakistan for a few years?

[NikLR 13,220]

You have to overcome the presumption the CO had that your fiance is using you for a visa.  That means facetime (time together.)  It means sharing information with his family about your past and dealing with that reaction.  Pakistan is hard embassy.  Most males, even married ones, end up in AP for months to years.  This is an AP for background checks and tests your relationship.  Front loading IS essential.  Overcoming several red flags in your relationship is your job.  

Best of luck!

[AliTan 53]

22 minutes ago, missileman said:

In this kind of situation, the best remedy is time together.........that will help to overcome all the red flags.  Unfortunately, this K-1 is dead, and it is now on the record.  Have you given any thought to relocating to Pakistan for a few years?

Relocating is definitely not an option. My daughter has just started college.  I'm not willing to be that far from her for that long, but I also have a good job and need to pay tuition the next 4-5 years. I hope with more time together and more family involvement we can do this.  Thanks everyone for easing my mind a little!

[Kastrs 723]

You are 10 years older,  what is your age? Culturally it matters if you could give your fiance a child or not

 

Where in Pakistan is your fiance from, what is his profession, what is his family status 

Those are all things the embassy will consider

 

I would strongly encourage you to spend more facetime together, and if at all possible visit his family in Pakistan (note you will need to get a visa to travel to Pakistan)

 

you have quite a few red flags so much more relationship evidence will be needed to overcome the presumption that your fiance is in it for the GC only

 

EDITED TO ADD why would you get married in the Seychelles and not in Pakistan, that to me would also be a red flag if you go that route

Edited August 21, 2018 by Kastrs

[Roel 7,191]

Honestly I think you have better chance getting married and starting working on spouse visa.  And facetime, facetime, facetime...

[AliTan 53]

8 minutes ago, Kastrs said:

You are 10 years older,  what is your age? Culturally it matters if you could give your fiance a child or not

 

Where in Pakistan is your fiance from, what is his profession, what is his family status 

Those are all things the embassy will consider

 

I would strongly encourage you to spend more facetime together, and if at all possible visit his family in Pakistan (note you will need to get a visa to travel to Pakistan)

 

you have quite a few red flags so much more relationship evidence will be needed to overcome the presumption that your fiance is in it for the GC only

 

EDITED TO ADD why would you get married in the Seychelles and not in Pakistan, that to me would also be a red flag if you go that route

I am 39. We don't want kids, but I know that's a problem. He lives in KP province. He has a veterinary degree and just completed a masters in December. His family has a nice home and land, so I don't think status is an issue. Honestly, I don't like attention on me, so if I could have my wedding my way it would be just the two of us. If I can't get married in the US, Seychelles is special to us because it's where we have met, and we could have just a few people present. In Pakistan it would likely be a big thing and I'm really not comfortable with that, but I might just have to suck it up and do what's necessary. Thanks for your help.

[Sukie 1,439]

AliTan - you are going to have to fight this - and hopefully, your fight will "prove" that you and your intended have a true relationship.  You have been given great advice here as to how to begin your fight.  I wish you all SORTS of luck.  As one of the folks above said, "marriage fraud" is a catch phrase.  It just means your package did not contain enough proof for the CO to believe your fiance is not using you to get to the US.  And in Pakistan, you need a LOT of proof!

 

It's going to take time, and it is going to take money.  It will also give you more time to get to know your fiance, and his family.  I think going the CR-1 route is less risky than trying to get a K-1 repeat.  And if you do go CR-1, then your new husband will be able to work as soon as he gets to the US.  If he wishes to continue being in the veterinary business, he'll probably have to prove equivalency in the US, but that will be doable, I'm sure.

 

Take heart, and start fighting!

 

Sukie in NY

[AliTan 53]

8 minutes ago, Sukie said:

AliTan - you are going to have to fight this - and hopefully, your fight will "prove" that you and your intended have a true relationship.  You have been given great advice here as to how to begin your fight.  I wish you all SORTS of luck.  As one of the folks above said, "marriage fraud" is a catch phrase.  It just means your package did not contain enough proof for the CO to believe your fiance is not using you to get to the US.  And in Pakistan, you need a LOT of proof!

 

It's going to take time, and it is going to take money.  It will also give you more time to get to know your fiance, and his family.  I think going the CR-1 route is less risky than trying to get a K-1 repeat.  And if you do go CR-1, then your new husband will be able to work as soon as he gets to the US.  If he wishes to continue being in the veterinary business, he'll probably have to prove equivalency in the US, but that will be doable, I'm sure.

 

Take heart, and start fighting!

 

Sukie in NY

Thanks so much.  Honestly, I'm sad we're in this position but a little excited to start planning another trip.  I have confidence that we will have a happy story to tell in the end. 

[NoProblem 69]

48 minutes ago, AliTan said:

I am 39. We don't want kids

This will be looked at very hard by the embassy.  Usually the guy and their family would wants kids of their own and this is a big things in Pakistan eps. that he is 29.  CO would assume that your fiance or future husband will eventually remarry or second marry to fulfill this need.

[AliTan 53]

13 minutes ago, NoProblem said:

This will be looked at very hard by the embassy.  Usually the guy and their family would wants kids of their own and this is a big things in Pakistan eps. that he is 29.  CO would assume that your fiance or future husband will eventually remarry or second marry to fulfill this need.

Well it's the truth and unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that. Hopefully we can overcome it. I wish the same standards applied to all countries. I'm not trying to live in Pakistan.  I live in the US and there is nothing unusual about not wanting (more) kids in the US.  Just venting.