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Dual citizenship conflicting with Oath of Allegiance

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Towards the end of the N-400 form — Part 12, item 47  — it asks whether the applicant is willing to take the "Oath of Allegiance" at the oath ceremony.

Part of the oath is declaring that I will "...absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been subject or citizen."

I'm a citizen of another country and I know for certain that it is perfectly fine with both countries to be a dual citizen, and neither country will require that I relinquish either citizenship.

I've found a couple of sources online saying that even though the oath does seem to very clearly state that you're basically giving up any prior or current citizenship with any other country, that this will not affect my current citizenship with the country where I'm from.

However, I do feel very uneasy with taking an oath with this language.

Firstly, if I don't have to, it is actually very important to me to keep my foreign citizenship.

Secondly, it very much sounds like I'm being untruthful when taking the oath, if I do plan on having dual citizenship. 

 

I have read that it is possible to request to change the language of the oath in some ways, but those seem to pertain to other things (like alternative text to saying "so help me god").

 

I'm wondering if anyone who has dual citizenship and has gone through this, or knows with a very high degree of certainty can advise.

 

Thanks!

 

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7 hours ago, ajomr said:

I've found a couple of sources online saying that even though the oath does seem to very clearly state that you're basically giving up any prior or current citizenship with any other country, that this will not affect my current citizenship with the country where I'm from.

 

It very much depends on the other country's laws governing citizenship.  If you've done your research about those laws and you're absolutely sure that you won't be relinquishing your original citizenship by taking the oath with that wording, then you'll be fine.  USCIS will not think you're misrepresenting yourself by intending to hold dual citizenship.

 

Here's some additional reading on what the US government says about dual nationality -- https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

 

As a side note, my home country (Philippines) takes that oath wording seriously.  Once a person takes the US oath, by law they automatically lose their PH citizenship.  Fortunately, PH law also provides for a relatively quick and easy way to reacquire citizenship and become a dual PH-US citizen.

 

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Uruguay
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Has anyone in here given any thought to the oath of allegiance? This would be my third nationality and although I understand it is only to the effects of US Laws, the way it is written its like what I read in the bible and it made me uneasy for some time as I know I am making an oath not only before men but also before God. It is definitely loaded so was just wondering if it was only me lol. I serve the one above all earthly kingdoms and the one who allows them to stand or fall. At one point I even wondered if I really needed to be naturalized as I am a EU citizen as well and can travel more on that passport than I would on a US one. But my purpose for naturalizing is not for the passport, I love this country, all the good things that it was founded on and even as I see it is not what it used to be there is still hope. It has given me many opportunities, and to my family. I have a lot to be grateful for. 

 

You can modify the oath but only remove one of the US Armed forces option, however the work of national importance directed by civilians (forced to move to Mars under the direction of Elon Musk lol lol, jk). It is just very loaded. Spain does not recognize the oath so no problems there, my birth country I believe the same applies. I just wonder why the US is so invested in making new citizens commit at this level. Clearly those born here are not subject to this.

 

Anyone wants to share their thoughts?

 

Germany:

I solemnly declare that I will respect and observe the Basic Law and the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany, and that I will refrain from any activity which might cause it harm.

 

Israel:

"I declare that I will be a loyal national of the State of Israel."

 

Canada:

I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

 

Russia:

I, (surname, name, middle name), swear that, by taking the citizenship of the Russian Federation, I will observe the Constitution and laws of the Russian Federation, and the rights and freedoms of its citizens; that I shall fulfill my duties as a citizen of the Russian Federation for the welfare of the state and society; that I will protect the freedom and independence of the Russian Federation; and that I will be loyal to Russia and respect its culture, history and traditions.

 

UK:

I, [name], [swear by Almighty God] [do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare] that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs, and successors, according to law.

 

Norway:

As a citizen of Norway I pledge loyalty to my country Norway and the Norwegian society, and I support democracy and human rights and will respect the laws of the country.

Applicants for Norwegian citizenship are not required to take the oath; it is optional.

 

USA:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Kenya
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12 hours ago, ajomr said:

Towards the end of the N-400 form — Part 12, item 47  — it asks whether the applicant is willing to take the "Oath of Allegiance" at the oath ceremony.

Part of the oath is declaring that I will "...absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been subject or citizen."

I'm a citizen of another country and I know for certain that it is perfectly fine with both countries to be a dual citizen, and neither country will require that I relinquish either citizenship.

I've found a couple of sources online saying that even though the oath does seem to very clearly state that you're basically giving up any prior or current citizenship with any other country, that this will not affect my current citizenship with the country where I'm from.

However, I do feel very uneasy with taking an oath with this language.

Firstly, if I don't have to, it is actually very important to me to keep my foreign citizenship.

Secondly, it very much sounds like I'm being untruthful when taking the oath, if I do plan on having dual citizenship. 

 

I have read that it is possible to request to change the language of the oath in some ways, but those seem to pertain to other things (like alternative text to saying "so help me god").

 

I'm wondering if anyone who has dual citizenship and has gone through this, or knows with a very high degree of certainty can advise.

 

Thanks!

 

 

I think you are taking it way too deep as I had already mentioned to @JER2020 in another thread.

As already mentioned, some countries allow dual citizenship. Which country are you from? We can start from there.

 

Edited by Timona

Immigration journey is not: fast, for the faint at heart, easy, cheap, for the impatient nor right away. If more than 50% of this applies to you, best get off the bus.

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1 hour ago, Timona said:

 

I think you are taking it way too deep as I had already mentioned to @JER2020 in another thread.

As already mentioned, some countries allow dual citizenship. Which country are you from? We can start from there.

 

Hi Timona,

Thanks for your guidance on this.

I have Israeli citizenship (full disclosure: not to turn this into a political issue, I was hesitant to write which country I'm from especially due to the recent events. I feel depressed and honestly rather ashamed of what is happening there 😕)

That being said, I prefer not to give up my Israeli citizenship, and I know for certain that it is perfectly fine with both countries that I hold this dual citizenship.

I know I'm probably reading too much into this oath thing, and what I found from my online research has said this, more or less.

But with the future being unknown, I'd rather not make declarations that I know are not true, or declarations of renouncing citizenship to Israel.

I'm convinced that I'm not the first to deal with this dilemma, so I'm wondering if there are any ways to work around this without creating too much complication for myself.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Kenya
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1 hour ago, ajomr said:

Hi Timona,

Thanks for your guidance on this.

I have Israeli citizenship (full disclosure: not to turn this into a political issue, I was hesitant to write which country I'm from especially due to the recent events. I feel depressed and honestly rather ashamed of what is happening there 😕)

That being said, I prefer not to give up my Israeli citizenship, and I know for certain that it is perfectly fine with both countries that I hold this dual citizenship.

I know I'm probably reading too much into this oath thing, and what I found from my online research has said this, more or less.

But with the future being unknown, I'd rather not make declarations that I know are not true, or declarations of renouncing citizenship to Israel.

I'm convinced that I'm not the first to deal with this dilemma, so I'm wondering if there are any ways to work around this without creating too much complication for myself.

 

Problem solved. Just hold both.

I am quite sure there are many people who have lived their lives to the fullest and passed as dual citizens without the oath being a bother to them. I will hold both citizenship when my time comes. 

Immigration journey is not: fast, for the faint at heart, easy, cheap, for the impatient nor right away. If more than 50% of this applies to you, best get off the bus.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Nicaragua
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I don't know if I understand it correctly or fully but I wonder if the oath is a way of acknowledging that "while I'm in the US, I am an American citizen and subject to all it's laws blah blah blah". So if I go and do something illegal and stupid I can't run away to the nearest embassy and hide to avoid consequences.

For example, if my we decide to live in Nicaragua in the future and I apply for Nicaraguan citizenship when the time comes they have a very similar process where you "renounce" any other citizenships. However, to actually do that you must present a notarized statement to the US embassy and do some kind of oath thing. Granted, that's just based on my research in that one country and won't apply to every country.

 

My husband just became a US citizen last Oct. It's a huge relief to be able to leave all things US immigrations behind us!

A Tale of Two Dakotaraguans

K1 Journey - 78 Days

 

Sent I-129F - 11/16/15 [Day 1]
NOA1 - 11/18 (Hard copy: 11/24) [Day 2, Day 8]
NOA2 - 12/18 (Hard copy: 12/26) [Day 32, Day 40]
NVC received file: 1/05/2016 [Day 50] Obtained NVC invoice number, paid visa fee, filled out DS-160: 1/06 [Day 51]
Fiancé's medical: 1/12 9:00am [Day 57]
Interview: 1/22 9:30am, Approved! [67 days] (F)
Visa status on ceac site= "AP": 1/25, "Issued":01/27, "In Transit: 2/02", Visa packet in hand: 2/03 [Day 78]
POE: (Houston) 2/04, North Dakota arrival: 2/05

Married (civil): 2/05/16 (L)

AOS - 55 Days

 

I-485, AP, EAD sent : 3/03/2016 [Day 1]

Delivered: 3/04 [Day 2]

Electronic NOA1: 3/08 [Day 5]  NOA1 Hardcopy rcv'd in mail: 3/12 [Day 9]; Biometric Notification rcv'd in mail: 3/26 [Day 23]; Biometrics Appt: 4/06 in Fargo, ND [Day 33]

Notification(s): "Your new card is being produced" 4/23 [Day 48] ; "Your case was approved" 4/26 [Day 51]; "Your card was mailed on 4/27" 4/28 [Day 53]

Green Card in Hand: 4/30 [Day 55]

D-day ("Dress day"/I do...again Day/wedding reception): 9/10/16

ROC - 390 days 

Spoiler

Window opens: 1/24/2018

Package sent: 1/26, Delivered on 1/29 at 11:17am to CSC - [Day 1]

Check cashed: 1/31 [Day 3]

NOA1: 1/29 [Day 1]; NOA rcv'd in mail: 2/02 [Day 4]

Biometrics  Sent 5/5, rcv'd in mail 5/12 [Day 107]

Biometrics appt: Not required

18 Month extension letter received, dated 8/18: 8/24/18 [Day 211]

"New Card Being Produced" - 2/11/19 [Day 382], email "we mailed your card on 2/14" - 2/15

Card arrived: 2/19/19 [Day 390]

Citizenship - 643 Days

Spoiler

Window opens: 01/24/2019

E-file: 01/28/2019 [Day 1]

Biometrics = scheduled: 02/01 [Day 4], view uploaded document: 02/05 [Day 8], appointment day: 02/19 [Day 22] In Fargo, ND

Interview scheduled notification online: 9/3/20 [Day 585]

Interview in Minneapolis, MN: 10/20/20 [Day 632] at 12:15 PM: passed/approved

Oath Ceremony: scheduled 10/20, view letter online 10/21

Oath : Fargo, ND 2:15pm at sanctuary events center. No guests allowed

 

1808 total days of thinking about/waiting for immigrations!

Applied for US Passport 11/4/2020, application approved 1/26/21, passport and naturalization cert received in mailbox: 1/28/21 📘

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Kenya
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31 minutes ago, YecaCruz said:

I don't know if I understand it correctly or fully but I wonder if the oath is a way of acknowledging that "while I'm in the US, I am an American citizen and subject to all it's laws blah blah blah". So if I go and do something illegal and stupid I can't run away to the nearest embassy and hide to avoid consequences.

For example, if my we decide to live in Nicaragua in the future and I apply for Nicaraguan citizenship when the time comes they have a very similar process where you "renounce" any other citizenships. However, to actually do that you must present a notarized statement to the US embassy and do some kind of oath thing. Granted, that's just based on my research in that one country and won't apply to every country.

 

My husband just became a US citizen last Oct. It's a huge relief to be able to leave all things US immigrations behind us!

 

Having dual citizenship has its good and bad side. On my weighing machine, I think the positive outweighs the negative.

In Kenya, flashing US PP as ID is asking to be price gauged. 

However, as we already know, should you be in an emergency situation, say in Sudan,  flashing US PP during emergency or evacuation will get you help faster as opposed to flashing your  Kenyan PP. And then there are many countries you can get to without visa if you're a USC.

Immigration journey is not: fast, for the faint at heart, easy, cheap, for the impatient nor right away. If more than 50% of this applies to you, best get off the bus.

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Hi all, thanks so much for your replies.

Just to be clear:

  1. I have no debate as to whether I want dual citizenship or not. I intend to maintain dual citizenship and I know for sure that it is perfectly fine, legal, etc with respects to policy with both Israel and the United States. So no doubts there.
  2. I'm pretty confident, given the replies to this post and also from my online research, that taking the oath as written will not affect my Israeli citizenship and most likely everything will be fine and I'll be able to keep both citizenships. Although the oath text does seem like it is negating my Israeli citizenship, it will not have any affect.

My only question is whether anyone knows of cases where someone has requested to modify the oath text so that it doesn't sound like you are giving up an existing citizenship.

From what I see, it is possible to request modifications for certain circumstances (as I mentioned in original post) but I'm curious whether anyone knows of cases where modifications where made to accommodate dual citizenship.

 

I know I sound like I'm being a pain in the butt, and after everything is said and done, I'll probably just accept the oath as is and be done with it :)

But if it's perfectly fine to adjust it, I'd rather go that route. 

I don't think anyone can guarantee that in the future  there won't be some crazy administration running the country and deciding "hey you took an oath that you renounce your citizenship to all other countries, so you're in violation of your oath".

That's all I'm saying... 🦔

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1 minute ago, nastra30 said:

The oath of allegiance is not about you losing the citizenship of your other country, because they is no law banning dual citizenship in the US.

The oath is about renouncing allegiance and fidelity to the other country. An example basically is - will you serve in the US military when called upon verses serving the military of the other country. In extreme circumstances when your two countries are at war who's side will you choose?

Oh! got it 😀

that makes sense now

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Nicaragua
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42 minutes ago, Timona said:

 

Having dual citizenship has its good and bad side. On my weighing machine, I think the positive outweighs the negative.

In Kenya, flashing US PP as ID is asking to be price gauged. 

However, as we already know, should you be in an emergency situation, say in Sudan,  flashing US PP during emergency or evacuation will get you help faster as opposed to flashing your  Kenyan PP. And then there are many countries you can get to without visa if you're a USC.

oh for sure. Just being blonde and white (like me) or dressing/acting like a tourist in Nicaragua means you are a obvious a walking, talking dollar machine and have to deal with gouged prices all the time. Most of the time I don't mind since the economy is in the pits and most people really need the $. Sometimes people have asked where I am from because my spanish has the Nicaraguan accent so I could potentially be from the mountains. 😁

A Tale of Two Dakotaraguans

K1 Journey - 78 Days

 

Sent I-129F - 11/16/15 [Day 1]
NOA1 - 11/18 (Hard copy: 11/24) [Day 2, Day 8]
NOA2 - 12/18 (Hard copy: 12/26) [Day 32, Day 40]
NVC received file: 1/05/2016 [Day 50] Obtained NVC invoice number, paid visa fee, filled out DS-160: 1/06 [Day 51]
Fiancé's medical: 1/12 9:00am [Day 57]
Interview: 1/22 9:30am, Approved! [67 days] (F)
Visa status on ceac site= "AP": 1/25, "Issued":01/27, "In Transit: 2/02", Visa packet in hand: 2/03 [Day 78]
POE: (Houston) 2/04, North Dakota arrival: 2/05

Married (civil): 2/05/16 (L)

AOS - 55 Days

 

I-485, AP, EAD sent : 3/03/2016 [Day 1]

Delivered: 3/04 [Day 2]

Electronic NOA1: 3/08 [Day 5]  NOA1 Hardcopy rcv'd in mail: 3/12 [Day 9]; Biometric Notification rcv'd in mail: 3/26 [Day 23]; Biometrics Appt: 4/06 in Fargo, ND [Day 33]

Notification(s): "Your new card is being produced" 4/23 [Day 48] ; "Your case was approved" 4/26 [Day 51]; "Your card was mailed on 4/27" 4/28 [Day 53]

Green Card in Hand: 4/30 [Day 55]

D-day ("Dress day"/I do...again Day/wedding reception): 9/10/16

ROC - 390 days 

Spoiler

Window opens: 1/24/2018

Package sent: 1/26, Delivered on 1/29 at 11:17am to CSC - [Day 1]

Check cashed: 1/31 [Day 3]

NOA1: 1/29 [Day 1]; NOA rcv'd in mail: 2/02 [Day 4]

Biometrics  Sent 5/5, rcv'd in mail 5/12 [Day 107]

Biometrics appt: Not required

18 Month extension letter received, dated 8/18: 8/24/18 [Day 211]

"New Card Being Produced" - 2/11/19 [Day 382], email "we mailed your card on 2/14" - 2/15

Card arrived: 2/19/19 [Day 390]

Citizenship - 643 Days

Spoiler

Window opens: 01/24/2019

E-file: 01/28/2019 [Day 1]

Biometrics = scheduled: 02/01 [Day 4], view uploaded document: 02/05 [Day 8], appointment day: 02/19 [Day 22] In Fargo, ND

Interview scheduled notification online: 9/3/20 [Day 585]

Interview in Minneapolis, MN: 10/20/20 [Day 632] at 12:15 PM: passed/approved

Oath Ceremony: scheduled 10/20, view letter online 10/21

Oath : Fargo, ND 2:15pm at sanctuary events center. No guests allowed

 

1808 total days of thinking about/waiting for immigrations!

Applied for US Passport 11/4/2020, application approved 1/26/21, passport and naturalization cert received in mailbox: 1/28/21 📘

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Kenya
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29 minutes ago, YecaCruz said:

oh for sure. Just being blonde and white (like me) or dressing/acting like a tourist in Nicaragua means you are a obvious a walking, talking dollar machine and have to deal with gouged prices all the time. Most of the time I don't mind since the economy is in the pits and most people really need the $. Sometimes people have asked where I am from because my spanish has the Nicaraguan accent so I could potentially be from the mountains. 😁

 

Hahhahaa it is good to always compare notes. Hahahaha 

I promised my wife that if she ever goes to Kenya, I would walk casually behind and pretend we do not know each other, so that I just see how much the locals will try to definitely price gauge her as she is USC. 

Immigration journey is not: fast, for the faint at heart, easy, cheap, for the impatient nor right away. If more than 50% of this applies to you, best get off the bus.

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21 hours ago, ajomr said:

Towards the end of the N-400 form — Part 12, item 47  — it asks whether the applicant is willing to take the "Oath of Allegiance" at the oath ceremony.

Part of the oath is declaring that I will "...absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been subject or citizen."

I'm a citizen of another country and I know for certain that it is perfectly fine with both countries to be a dual citizen, and neither country will require that I relinquish either citizenship.

I've found a couple of sources online saying that even though the oath does seem to very clearly state that you're basically giving up any prior or current citizenship with any other country, that this will not affect my current citizenship with the country where I'm from.

However, I do feel very uneasy with taking an oath with this language.

Firstly, if I don't have to, it is actually very important to me to keep my foreign citizenship.

Secondly, it very much sounds like I'm being untruthful when taking the oath, if I do plan on having dual citizenship. 

 

I have read that it is possible to request to change the language of the oath in some ways, but those seem to pertain to other things (like alternative text to saying "so help me god").

 

I'm wondering if anyone who has dual citizenship and has gone through this, or knows with a very high degree of certainty can advise.

 

Thanks!

 

this is straight up over the board analysis 

duh

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