I think my friend is falling victim to marriage fraud. Advice?

[Boiler 43,575]

Muslim men can marry Christian or Jewish women according to Islam. It's Muslim women who can only marry Muslim men according to Islam (and thus according to some countries' local laws).

The way the US Government looks at possible marriage fraud is this: if the USC believes the relationship is genuine, it's assumed to be genuine.

Yes, there would be scrutiny due to it being Morocco. I see red flags, but at the same time, I got married to my husband about 2 months after meeting each other and 4 & half years and two kids later we are still going strong. I did tell my family, though...

The vast majority of cases you see on VJ are where the USC believes they are in a valid relationship and the Consulate does not.

[KierenHby 897]

The way I see it, your friend has blinders on.

I've read a lot of these things happening at touristy places. (My ex-girlfriend went on a vacation to Greece with a friend of hers, and she recounted to me later that her friend got caught up in similar advances made by this Greek guy at the resort they stayed in. Luckily back then, things ended at sex and nothing more).

Perhaps your friend felt ignored by her then-boyfriend, and she took a liking to this guy's advances. He obviously made her feel special, maybe still does.

Chances are, that'll only last till he get's a green card. IF it ever gets to that point...

[Harmonia 211]

Plenty of red flags, but also legal. Think of 2 US Citizens getting drunk and married in Vegas. Is the marriage "real" based on a relationship of mutual trust, goals, and time invested in the relationship? No. Is it "fraud"? No, not really, because its legally a marriage. Consenting adults can do whatever they want. No authorities will investigate what 2 consenting adults decide to do.

Is it a good idea? Of course not.

You sound like a good friend. She's lucky to have you! I hope you can encourage her to have her eyes wide open and perhaps read some online forums. You could say you want her to learn about the culture to better understand her soon-to-be husband, and if you slip in some forums with warnings about quickie marriages...all the better.

[Pishi_Pishi 63]

Good Info and warning from the Embassy.. http://morocco.usembassy.gov/service/professional-services/marriage-information.html

[Pennycat 880]

Sounds hugely fishy to me, personally, but like others have said there is basically nothing you can do to stop it. This is a fairly good list of red flag behaviors and things the US citizen can do to try to bring true intentions to light. Note, she'd have to be the one to do it: http://www.imarriedanalien.com/?p=19

To put your mind at ease (though others have already said this, I'll say it again): there is NO fast route to immigrate to the US, even for spouses of US citizens. Contrary to popular belief, you can't just get married abroad and hop on the next plane together. You must apply for a visa which allows you to come to the US with the intention to live there and applying for those visas take time, money, financial commitment (more on that later) and an interview at the embassy-- with people who are looking out for fraudsters.

Fiance visas (which are extremely difficult to obtain for men from MENA countries-- Middle East/North African) take about 5 months on average, pushing a year for MENA-- if they even get granted at all). Spouse visas take 12-16 months or more, and that "or more" tends to be for MENA countries, particularly men. If I were you, I'd just leave her to do what she's going to do. If she doesn't know about this or similar sites, don't tell her. Let her get married and *then *discover that she chose "the long route". Or let her try for a fiance visa that will likely fail and then need to start over again with a spouse visa (which also may fail if they don't get tips and insider scoops from here). They'd have to maintain trust, love, etc through this period of time. If he's scamming her, he may lose patience. Or he'll find a European woman and be able to move there quicker. Or she'll have a long time for the wool to come away from her eyes.

Does she make enough money to bring a foreign spouse? If not, would she be able to find anyone to co-sponsor? That could kill it right there, too.

What you CAN do, is keep being her friend so that she'll actually open up to you when/if there are problems (if she starts suspecting he's lying or cheating) and you'd be able to help guide her to sanity from there. Coming in with a "he's using you for a green card" approach will backfire 100% of the time. You'll be insulting her (that reads "I can't believe anyone could actually love you") AND providing big incentive to hide the truth from you or anyone who has said this to her when/if the red flags build up and up. Just wait. Go along with it. And the first night he doesn't return her text and 10pm on a Saturday his time, or the first time he gets another, maybe more attractive, American female Facebook friend, and she's getting upset.... you'll actually be in a position to help that wool come off her eyes, instead of being someone she's got to hide those things from because she doesn't want to look doubly stupid.....

And hey. Who knows. Could all be legit. Seems unlikely but as people have said--- these things do happen.

[Alaska2012 462]

These things happen! Sometimes there is love at first sight! How do you know that that's not the case? Maybe she's hiding this whole thing because of you and the way you go on about this? Being judged blows! You sounds borderline jealous of her for finding happiness! Yeah he might be a jerk he might not! This isn't any of your business! If you want to be a good friend then tell her "hey I think something is fishy but I got your back" If they end up married and happily ever after and all that jazz you didn't lose a friend. And if it goes down the drain you can lend her your shoulder to cry on.

[IcezMan_IcezLady 582]

I think you are overstepping your boundary as a friend.. You have voiced your opinion about this whole thing to her.

That should end all of your interference right there.

No one would even tolerate even family members doing this kind of meddling you are doing.

You might be right but what right do you have to find any means necessary to force her to accept it?

Good friends never do that..

I have made some bad decisions which my friend may have warned me about but i learned better when I found out I was wrong..But my friends were always there to catch me when I fell.

That's your duty as a friend.

I doubt you will accept it if it turns out that you were wrong about this relationship all along. You will rather be right than being wrong and your friend happy.

I know this post might get deleted but I feel someone should let OP know that she is overstepping her friendship boundary.

Y'all have a great day!!

[Pennycat 880]

Oh and I meant getting "tips" like... don't go to the embassy with a "we got engaged after one week and I haven't introduced her to my family, and no they don't know about her, and no we didn't get married in a place of worship etc etc"... everything that is considered a red flag for that country--they do vary from country to country-- in some countries, an age gap is not only common but expected, in others, a big one is suspicious. In some, the woman being older is rare, and too old for children-- marrying a young man-- is unheard of. In some countries, people would *never* get engaged (legitimately) without the family's approval and involvement, in others, it's perfectly normal. That's all up to the embassy. If they don't have people spelling out the ins and outs of the expectations at the Morocco embassy, they'll likely fail pretty hard.

[Darnell 8,478]

[snip]

1. So does this sound like marriage fraud?

2. Is there anything I can do to stop it?

Please help - I feel so helpless and confused.

1. yes. is a common thing in that part of town where you two visited. Young Dapper Men chase after the tourists.

2. Well, you know the day of her next airplane flight. So, make sure you give her a pan of chocolate-exlax-imbued brownies within 12 hours of the departure time, she won't be able to leave the toilet room in time to get on the plane.

[Boiler 43,575]

A lady I know spent some time, may have added up to a year or so there and I did once ask her about the local situation, she laughed, there was a name I have forgotten used in the expat community, Beach Boys or something.

[Pennycat 880]

A lady I know spent some time, may have added up to a year or so there and I did once ask her about the local situation, she laughed, there was a name I have forgotten used in the expat community, Beach Boys or something.

bez-ness I think? (My cousin/best friend lives and works in Tangiers so I feel tangentially in-the-know).

[templeton 120]

I love beating dead horses. You don't have options here. Report what? And to Who? There's no "I suspect someone I know might be getting into a relationship with a foreigner who is just using them for immigration purposes" tip line. Even if you called up USCIS and told them about it, they would send you on your way without a "thank you" or a pat on the head. At this point there isn't even an immigration case to report on, and it's not like they're just keeping files full of unsubstantiated third party allegations on random foreigners that they can cross-reference down the road in case those people ever happen to apply for a visas. Even once someone becomes an immigrant, unsubstantiated allegations against them are ignored because jilted spouses, exes, family members, etc., threaten to report legal immigrants for fraud all the time for various nefarious reasons.

In other words, before there's anything you can do, there first needs to be a marriage, then there needs to be an immigration case, and then there needs to be tangible evidence of fraud. So far you're zero for three.

As others have mentioned, simply being married to a US citizen doesn't automatically grant him any rights to a life in the US. It is a long and costly process. If and when the time comes the relationship will be scrutinized and judged on it's merits.

Your friend is not the first person to make questionable relationship decisions, and for better or worse, that's her right to do so...and live with the consequences of her actions. You've given her your thoughts, and that's all you can do. She now has to choose her own path.

[Russ&Caro 1,548]

So are you saying that when they get married he won't be able to move to US right away?

Also, does anyone know if they get married will he instantly have the rights to her financial assets?

Sorry, I am asking so many questions. This whole issue is new to me. I have known my friend for almost my entire life. She is like a sister to me. I'm not trying to meddle, I really just care about her. And yes, I've seen her make other mistakes because she has a problem with impulsivity and putting blinders on. That's what bothers me most about her attitude she doesn't seem any potential problem here.

Now you're on the right track. If this person was my friend, the only thing I would meddle with is a conversation with her about a pre-nuptial agreement. But she can't cut corners. She not only needs an attorney to draw up such an agreement, she also needs to make sure her fiancee has an attorney who reviews the agreement before advising him what to do. If he can't afford an attorney, she needs to provide him funds so he can independently consult with an attorney. If he refuses to sign, she needs to run away from this guy.

You asked what she is going to face and how she is going to deal with this if it all comes crashing down. Well, it's not going to be easy but if she protects her finances then it will ease the pain, somewhat.

[Dirty harry 25]

Hello,

I am very concerned that my friend is falling victim to marriage fraud. Here is the back story...we are both 29 year old American women. In November 2015 we went to Tangiers Morocco on vacation. While there we met this Moroccan guy that came up to us while we were in a tourist part of town. He was very friendly and helpful. He was somewhat flirty with both of us, but I was not receptive. So he started focusing his attention on my friend, who was very receptive, even though she had a serious boyfriend back home. I thought she just liked the attention and didn't think it was a big deal - she was just having fun on vacation. Last night there the two of them basically spent it off on their own, and I stayed in. The next day she told me she kissed him. Okay, not a huge deal, they didn't have sex (so she claims). She also says the guy brought up marriage, which I thought was a little weird, but didn't think anything of it because it was so bizarre, no way I thought she could possibly be taking it serious. Fast forward a couple months and I find out through a mutual friend that she has fallen in love with this guy over the internet, texting, etc. She broke up with her boyfriend. She is going back to Tangiers in April and plans on marrying this guy. She has been taking steps to hide this marriage from friends and family, but our mutual friend found out because she saw the marriage papers etc. So here are the warning signs that makes it seem like the whole thing is him using her.

- Brought up marriage soon after meeting. He basically proposed after less than a week of knowing her.

- She said he told her he loves her the day after she left.

- She said he makes her feel special, and that no man has made her feel so wanted before. Apparently this is a pattern with Morocco men looking for green card.

- They now have marriage plans which she is keeping secret. Why the secrecy? She even lied about the plans when directly questioned.

- This guy expressed interest to me about the feasibility of working in the US. He claimed to have a college degree.

- He seemed very interested in Americans and American culture. I got the feeling he had made efforts to meet many Americans and Europeans before he met us.

- Now has concrete plans to marry this guy after only a few months. They don't know each other!

I don't know...this whole thing seems way off to me and everyone else I've talked to. She is head over heels in love and won't look at any of the warning signs, and is marrying this guy. What is the rush to marriage? She won't listen to me when I tell her that her getting married this soon is crazy...even without all the warning signs that he might not care about her at all, and this is all him using her to get a greencard. She doesn't get that this could end up with her being emotionally devastated and financially taken advantage of. She refuses to listen.

Its so weird because the guy seemed so nice and sincere. Are people really this good at manipulating and using other people with no concern for them whatsoever?

So does this sound like marriage fraud? Is there anything I can do to stop it?

Please help - I feel so helpless and confused.

Winter, your concerns are legitimate for your friend. I think this happens often, but let me play devils advocate. Is it possible she fell in love, and he fell in love? I went to a far away country, met my wife, and asked her to marry me in less than 72 hours....That was 9 years ago and we are literally happier than we ever have been. I cant imagine my life Without her.

Generally when people say things like "I have never felt so special or so wanted" its because they have intense feelings for the person. In my experience, women are especially sensitive to men "faking" feelings.

As for the secrecy, Its really generally "taboo" in his society to meet some one abroad and want to get married quickly, mostly because of the" green card" issue. Evey single person she talks to about this new wonderful time in her life is thinking " He just wants a green card" I am keenly aware of this because at first, I felt it to from people I told. My advice? Be happy for your friend. Your showing your a good friend by caring so much.Time reveals all motives. Its a long process to get a green card.

I have been to many many countries, every one is interested in American culture, Its an interesting culture to be sure. Don't get me wrong The percentages dont favor your friend, however in the chance that it IS real, dont you want to be the friend that supported her?

God Bless,

Harry

[Happytobe 164]

Just a few talking points:

- it can take between 3-6 weeks to marry in Morocco if one is not prepared.

- the Consulate does not like to see that things have been kept secret from friends and family. If they suspect fraud, they won't approve. (I've been there and done that with my ex, thankfully they denied him)

- the nicer hotels won't rent one room, typically, without papers.

- the process takes, as others have said, upwards of 1 year after initial filing. A lot can happeluckiln in 1 year.

- do fraudsters get through the Consulate? sure, they can't protect everyone all the time; some people are better than others at manipulations

- do legitimate couples get denied? sure, happens all the time

- my scammer ex and I met online - luckily, the Consulate smelled something fishy

- my husband and I met online, and we are happy as can be. My family loves him, and his loves me

- could he be scamming her? sure. Could he be legit? Sure. She's going to do what makes her happy now. Love does crazy things to people. She's got to experience this herself. The more people that told me my ex was trouble, the more I wanted to prove them wrong. You asked if people get through being scammed.... Yes, we do, but having a friend there who had my back, no matter what, really helped. If things don't work out for her, don't do the whole "I told you so" and if things do work out for her, be happy for her. My husband and I used to Skype everyday, multiple times. We even Skyped with each others families. We really did get to know each other well. Have there been people who got fooled, even with modern day technology? You bet!

I wish her the best, and I hope you can continue to be a good friend for her,