To Learn About the Far Right, Start With the ‘Manosphere’

[Boiler 43,434]

They can not find, deport 10 million, 20 million people here illegally but they can find 400 million guns and confiscate them? 

 

The basic concept is really weird.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

And "assault" rifles are perceived as big, black and evil, the only advantage over a hunting rifle is magazine capacity. I have Sako and Steyr-Mannlicher hunting rifles with 5 shot magazines and high, Zeiss Scopes and larger caliber that are far more accurate and lethal at range that some no name unbranded ar-15 or ak variant but my rifles are considered benign tools. A skilled motivated shooter's lethality is increased with using quality tools (guns) , so while the gun does the killing, it's no more the culprit than a boeing 737, pipe bomb or Ford pickup in the hands of a human that has made the decision to cause someone's death

[Steeleballz 7,550]

22 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

You are unequivocally, 100% wrong.  I never avoid the subject, but I insist on discussing it logically and factually.  As a highly trained and skilled user and instructor of guns, and an expert marksman, I feel it is my duty to educate the masses whenever possible.

 

Perhaps not you, but MANY people feel that guns are the problem, and that enforcing more laws, or banning guns, will solve the problem.   And far from avoiding discussing that fallacy, I love to discuss it and prove how wrong it is.  

 

The main advantage of guns for most folks is the lack of courage required to take a life from a distance.  (There exist a group of tougher killers who are not afraid to use a knife to kill, but that's only about 12% of the spineless gun murderers.)  The gun simply becomes the tool of convenience for people who wish to cause chaos but are actually cowards.

 

     I do know you can discuss it logically and factually, because we have done so. However the post I initially responded to consisted of the silly NRA punch line and an attempt to blame it on "broken homes". It may be your opinion, but there was not a lot of fact or logic in that.

 

   As far as proving anything wrong, you have to also be able to admit when you are wrong for that to have any credence. One who insists they are right all the time regardless of the facts presented is just a blowhard. Not saying you are, but just in general on this topic. People's personal feelings towards guns influences a lot of what they hear. For example evidence has been presented here ad nauseam for things such as states with the weakest gun safety regulation having the highest death rates and yet I continue to see the claim that tougher regulations will not work. Makes no sense. 

  

[laylalex 7,247]

Okay, but what is going on in our culture right now amongst young men that misogyny and anti-feminism is so appealling, even if it doesn't end up in mass shootings? Why is the "manosphere" even a thing?

[beloved_dingo 1,932]

57 minutes ago, Boiler said:

They can not find, deport 10 million, 20 million people here illegally but they can find 400 million guns and confiscate them? 

 

The basic concept is really weird.

And most people that are advocates for gun control never say anything about "confiscating 400 million guns". Using an extreme example that very few people actually believe in just derails the conversation and is part of the reason middle ground on this issue is hard to find. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

23 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

I've been giving this a lot of thought - and by "this" I mean the unfortunate trend of young white males acting out in very violent, destructive ways. And I believe the issue is entitlement. If you are a white male from a "decent background" (upper middle-class for example) you are basically told from birth that the world is your oyster. You have these "average joes" that expect to end up with a beautiful wife, a nice house/car, great job, etc. but they aren't necessarily told they have to work for it or they have been told, but they just don't care. And they don't even know how to just be content with a loving girlfriend, or a decent job, and/or an apartment. They deserve more than that, right? So then you have some 20-year old that has done little to nothing with his life, with an ever increasing frustration that women aren't just falling into his lap, spending more and more time on the internet as an outlet, likely looking at hard-core porn when he's not on Reddit or god forbid, 4chan, 8chan or other trash websites, and that frustration starts to turn to rage. And that rage needs a target. Whether the target ends up being women, or people of color, or just whoever happens to be in their way at the time, it is bound to manifest itself in some tragic, nasty way. 

 

Add on top of this the uphill battle it is to treat or diagnose mental illness early, especially in boys/men, and the fact that men are culturally less expected or encouraged to express their more sensitive emotions (such as sadness, low self-worth, etc) it's no surprise that this creates a ticking time bomb in some young men. And sadly, even when it doesn't result in violence to others, it often results in self-harm or suicide.

Nobody ever told me the world was my oyster. When need to do something about all those young white males committing such a large % of violent crimes . Oh wait!

[Boiler 43,434]

16 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

And most people that are advocates for gun control never say anything about "confiscating 400 million guns". Using an extreme example that very few people actually believe in just derails the conversation and is part of the reason middle ground on this issue is hard to find. 

So what do they want?

[laylalex 7,247]

28 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Nobody ever told me the world was my oyster. When need to do something about all those young white males committing such a large % of violent crimes . Oh wait!

Sometimes it's not even just committing violent crimes -- it's young men (all races) being suckered into a belief system that says they are entitled to women, or to a particular job, or possessions, or whatever. Our society is failing men AND women, we're just failing them in different ways. For young men, from what I read, the manosphere/red pill/etc. communities provide a place where they can rage about perceived injustices they suffer. I think, in general, that this is not such a bad thing --- we all need escape valves. I used to have a blog (still do, but a different one now) that helped me do just that. It eventually became a toxic place for me because I was either hearing things from commenters that backed me up completely, or were tearing into me for being stupid or naive or whatever. There were few opportunities to be challenged in ways that were constructive. I eventually learned how to turn off comments  and stopped blogging some short time after. I think that can happen for young men in these communities too -- they either get attacked (which causes them to double down) or they get validated without criticism (which causes them to double down). We all need opportunities to have our beliefs challenged from time to time, to think critically about why we think what we think, and whether those thoughts are still useful or true.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

26 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Sometimes it's not even just committing violent crimes -- it's young men (all races) being suckered into a belief system that says they are entitled to women, or to a particular job, or possessions, or whatever. Our society is failing men AND women, we're just failing them in different ways. For young men, from what I read, the manosphere/red pill/etc. communities provide a place where they can rage about perceived injustices they suffer. I think, in general, that this is not such a bad thing --- we all need escape valves. I used to have a blog (still do, but a different one now) that helped me do just that. It eventually became a toxic place for me because I was either hearing things from commenters that backed me up completely, or were tearing into me for being stupid or naive or whatever. There were few opportunities to be challenged in ways that were constructive. I eventually learned how to turn off comments  and stopped blogging some short time after. I think that can happen for young men in these communities too -- they either get attacked (which causes them to double down) or they get validated without criticism (which causes them to double down). We all need opportunities to have our beliefs challenged from time to time, to think critically about why we think what we think, and whether those thoughts are still useful or true.

I do see a bit of the entitlement mentality in some of our younger workers.

[yuna628 9,528]

Just now, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I do see a bit of the entitlement mentality in some of our younger workers.

Entitlement mentality can be found in the young and the old. Can be equally as offensive at times.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     I do know you can discuss it logically and factually, because we have done so. However the post I initially responded to consisted of the silly NRA punch line and an attempt to blame it on "broken homes". It may be your opinion, but there was not a lot of fact or logic in that.

 

   As far as proving anything wrong, you have to also be able to admit when you are wrong for that to have any credence. One who insists they are right all the time regardless of the facts presented is just a blowhard. Not saying you are, but just in general on this topic. People's personal feelings towards guns influences a lot of what they hear. For example evidence has been presented here ad nauseam for things such as states with the weakest gun safety regulation having the highest death rates and yet I continue to see the claim that tougher regulations will not work. Makes no sense. 

  

I agree with you on all of this.  And if my point about broken homes causing mental issues with kids mimics that of the NRA, I was not aware, because I pay about as much attention to the NRA propaganda as I do to most mainstream "news" sources.

 

My reason for mentioning broken homes is that I have seen in my lifetime an increase in such, as well as increasing violence in video games (not saying the latter is a sole-source cause, but I feel it exposes kids to a level of violence and an apathy for such that I did not experience growing up, though I had a gun at 7 and was allowed to hunt with it alone by 8 yrs.  I was also taught a VERY healthy respect for the proper use of the tool.)

 

There are far too many reasons why people go off the deep end to try and pigeonhole any one or two reasons.  That was my point to the OP.  If the recent shooters didn't interact well with women,  or disliked them to to "maltreatment" by the fairer sex (perhaps because the ladies can sense a creep a mile away?), they probably have other underlying issues leading up to that.  Dealing with awkward feelings growing up is usually handled by the parents, but split/broken homes often tend to cause angst among teens rather than alleviate it, thereby exacerbating the problems (via my non-professional diagnosis and experience with divorce and kids).

 

From my POV, the highest gun death rates come from so-called "gun control zones" where only the criminals are able to have guns.  At least on a regular basis, like Chicago.  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

Entitlement mentality can be found in the young and the old. Can be equally as offensive at times.

I think I see more entitlement in the young and the rich (more so than old.  Now old & rich, sure.)

 

But more so among the young.  I recall a heated discussion I once had with a former co-worker, considerably younger than myself female.  We had been friends in the past.  But no more.  Why?

 

She was an avid Bernie fan, and was adamant that free college was a great thing.  I asked her where the money would come from, and the general response was "the government", but couldn't get her to understand that the government is funded on taxes, and it would cost us all.  Her favorite come back was "your generation ruined everything for my generation".  

 

Now bear in mind, said young lass had served in the military, and had a GI Bill.  But she was angry because it didn't pay for all the schooling she wanted to take.  She was going to have to pay for some of it out of her own pocket, and was angry about that.  So... she quit going to school.  Solved her own problem in her own way.

 

And unfriended me. I was the old white guy who didn't support her beliefs. And ruined America for her generation.  *SMH*

Edited August 14, 2019 by ALFKAD

[Ban Hammer 12,837]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

Entitlement mentality can be found in the young and the old. Can be equally as offensive at times.

like free health care.

[AnonIndia 58]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Nobody ever told me the world was my oyster. When need to do something about all those young white males committing such a large % of violent crimes . Oh wait!

 

 

On 8/11/2019 at 3:07 AM, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

To try to link most mass shootings to white supremist is absurd. There is no pattern or trend to support any of this. Most dont have a political motive or can their political leanings be determined. They few than can be determined tend to be liberals..

 

 

There is not a huge number of young white males represented in the crime statistics of murder, rape and violent robbery. But there is going to be a sharp spike in the rise of mass shootings by young white males as they are further alienated by the mainstream media and their own radical extremist views. There is a growing sentiment among this group that they are being replaced and bred out. I have seen the videos they put out on YouTube and the posts they make on image boards online for years now. They have developed ideas such as white genocide, replacement migration, browning of america etc. They constantly post stats about  the declining white birth rates, demographics of America that are soon going to be less than 50% white etc. Right now they are trying to come up with solutions to stop this decline and one of the extremist ways they wanna do it in is violence. They see no natural way to stop the decline by having more white babies since they say the 'women of their own race' are betraying them by being feminist and marring outside their race etc. 

[AnonIndia 58]

9 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I think I see more entitlement in the young and the rich (more so than old.  Now old & rich, sure.)

 

But more so among the young.  I recall a heated discussion I once had with a former co-worker, considerably younger than myself female.  We had been friends in the past.  But no more.  Why?

 

She was an avid Bernie fan, and was adamant that free college was a great thing.  I asked her where the money would come from, and the general response was "the government", but couldn't get her to understand that the government is funded on taxes, and it would cost us all.  Her favorite come back was "your generation ruined everything for my generation".  

 

Now bear in mind, said young lass had served in the military, and had a GI Bill.  But she was angry because it didn't pay for all the schooling she wanted to take.  She was going to have to pay for some of it out of her own pocket, and was angry about that.  So... she quit going to school.  Solved her own problem in her own way.

 

And unfriended me. I was the old white guy who didn't support her beliefs. And ruined America for her generation.  *SMH*

The money for free college could come from cutting down military spending. The young kids aren't asking for free money to buy cars or do drugs. They are asking for money to make them more qualified to earn more and in turn pay more taxes.