To Learn About the Far Right, Start With the ‘Manosphere’

[Boris Farage 353]

19 hours ago, laylalex said:

I was wondering if the timing of my post (Friday afternoon) had something to do with this topic sort of withering, but then I see a bunch of posts from Saturday, so... I mean, I know it's an uncomfortable topic, and it doesn't lend itself too well to being dismissed with memes without looking, ummmm, a little misogynist! Like:

 

Q: Why are women treated as lesser creatures in so many societies, suitable only for domestic activities?

A: Shut up and make me a sandwich.

A gentleman would never tell his woman to "shut up." A stern gaze is all that is needed.

[laylalex 7,247]

7 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

A gentleman would never tell his woman to "shut up." A stern gaze is all that is needed.

We're not really talking about gentlemen here though. I mean, some of them probably *think* they are, because they are protecting women from the injustices of the world.

[yuna628 9,528]

6 minutes ago, laylalex said:

We're not really talking about gentlemen here though. I mean, some of them probably *think* they are, because they are protecting women from the injustices of the world.

I should think that a person who would give their woman a 'stern look' as a method to compel her to 'make him a sandwich' should probably get off their lazy backside and make it themselves. But what do I know? Just a mere lowly woman.

 

There does seem to be an extreme lack of gentlemanly behavior these days. I do hope it sorts itself out, or we will soon be in a sandwich crisis.

[Boris Farage 353]

12 minutes ago, laylalex said:

We're not really talking about gentlemen here though. I mean, some of them probably *think* they are, because they are protecting women from the injustices of the world.

It's in the marital vows. "To care and protect." Call me traditional, but I take that very seriously.

 

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I should think that a person who would give their woman a 'stern look' as a method to compel her to 'make him a sandwich' should probably get off their lazy backside and make it themselves. But what do I know? Just a mere lowly woman.

 

There does seem to be an extreme lack of gentlemanly behavior these days. I do hope it sorts itself out, or we will soon be in a sandwich crisis.

There does indeed seem to be an extreme lack of gentlemanly behavior these days. As I said, I am a traditionalist. I hold doors for women. I lend them my jacket when they are cold, and my umbrella when it is raining. Because of this I am labeled a misogynist or worse. I have lost count of the number of times I've been given a glare or outright attacked because I simply held a door for a woman. Really, is it any wonder that men have just given up? If women want to be feminists, stop shaving their legs and underarms, stop making themselves pretty, and attack the men who simply want to make sure they are comfortable and taken care of, then that is of course their right. But they should do us the courtesy of not being surprised when we let the door slam in their face. (which I would never do)

As for me, I will continue to respect the fairer sex, even as it nets me the disdain of the modern woman. I have been labeled too orthodox by my conservative friends, but I'm just stubborn that way, despite my negative experiences.

[laylalex 7,247]

6 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

It's in the marital vows. "To care and protect." Call me traditional, but I take that very seriously.

Is it really? Well, my ex vowed to honor and cherish me, and he really didn't. I vowed the same thing too, and I took that vow very seriously. Some good it did us.

 

6 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

There does indeed seem to be an extreme lack of gentlemanly behavior these days. As I said, I am a traditionalist. I hold doors for women. I lend them my jacket when they are cold, and my umbrella when it is raining. Because of this I am labeled a misogynist or worse. I have lost count of the number of times I've been given a glare or outright attacked because I simply held a door for a woman. Really, is it any wonder that men have just given up? If women want to be feminists, stop shaving their legs and underarms, stop making themselves pretty, and attack the men who simply want to make sure they are comfortable and taken care of, then that is of course their right. But they should do us the courtesy of not being surprised when we let the door slam in their face. (which I would never do)

As for me, I will continue to respect the fairer sex, even as it nets me the disdain of the modern woman. I have been labeled too orthodox by my conservative friends, but I'm just stubborn that way, despite my negative experiences.

Well, I don't get irritated with men who hold doors for me, and I don't know any women who do. It's just plain courtesy. I hold doors for women AND men because it is the right thing to do! What DOES rub me the wrong way is when a man will sprint in front of me to open a door, like I can't open the door right in front of me, the door I'm closer to than him, because... chivalry? 

 

Do you think that some women's rejection of chivalry really has led to men being fed up with women? I mean, I am a feminist, and I wear makeup every day (with a light touch), shave my underarms and legs, even in the winter (sorry if TMI) and don't attack men who are genuinely being polite. There's a difference between being respectful of women, I think, though, and treating them like they're children who need to be coddled and cocooned and protected from all the bad things in the world.

[yuna628 9,528]

17 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

It's in the marital vows. "To care and protect." Call me traditional, but I take that very seriously.

 

There does indeed seem to be an extreme lack of gentlemanly behavior these days. As I said, I am a traditionalist. I hold doors for women. I lend them my jacket when they are cold, and my umbrella when it is raining. Because of this I am labeled a misogynist or worse. I have lost count of the number of times I've been given a glare or outright attacked because I simply held a door for a woman. Really, is it any wonder that men have just given up? If women want to be feminists, stop shaving their legs and underarms, stop making themselves pretty, and attack the men who simply want to make sure they are comfortable and taken care of, then that is of course their right. But they should do us the courtesy of not being surprised when we let the door slam in their face. (which I would never do)

As for me, I will continue to respect the fairer sex, even as it nets me the disdain of the modern woman. I have been labeled too orthodox by my conservative friends, but I'm just stubborn that way, despite my negative experiences.

No one has ever called any man I know a misogynist for holding open a door. Maybe you're doing it wrong or the stern looks have something to do with it. Either way, I think you need to change the crowd you hang with, mate.

[laylalex 7,247]

57 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I should think that a person who would give their woman a 'stern look' as a method to compel her to 'make him a sandwich' should probably get off their lazy backside and make it themselves. But what do I know? Just a mere lowly woman.

 

There does seem to be an extreme lack of gentlemanly behavior these days. I do hope it sorts itself out, or we will soon be in a sandwich crisis.

After concern on here last week, I can report back that I supervised my fiance in the preparation of a sandwich and it was pretty much edible!  I had to purchase the bread, and the ham, and the cheese, and the lettuce, and the red onion, but he did have a bottle of mayonnaise in the fridge. Baby steps.  

[Boiler 43,436]

There are bound to be a few wrinkles that need ironing out, we live in a different age and when norms built up over very long periods change then it is unlikely to be a smooth process.

 

Women do not need anybody opening the door for them. Well maybe if they are in a wheelchair or something, but it is not a gender issue.

[yuna628 9,528]

8 minutes ago, Boiler said:

There are bound to be a few wrinkles that need ironing out, we live in a different age and when norms built up over very long periods change then it is unlikely to be a smooth process.

 

Women do not need anybody opening the door for them. Well maybe if they are in a wheelchair or something, but it is not a gender issue.

Agreed. I don't need anyone to hold the door open for me on the basis of my gender. But I will hold the door open for anyone, as I was raised it was the polite thing to do. When I first met my husband, he would always open the door for me. One day I tried holding the door open for him. He nearly found it impossible to step through without fussing. Something something British and chivalry and polite and something no no no you can't hold the door for me I have to hold it for you, ppppllleaaase go before me. I told him I appreciated it, but physically refusing to step through a doorway because a woman was holding it was just as silly as me waiting around for him to open a door before I was allowed to step through you know?

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Agreed. I don't need anyone to hold the door open for me on the basis of my gender. But I will hold the door open for anyone, as I was raised it was the polite thing to do. When I first met my husband, he would always open the door for me. One day I tried holding the door open for him. He nearly found it impossible to step through without fussing. Something something British and chivalry and polite and something no no no you can't hold the door for me I have to hold it for you, ppppllleaaase go before me. I told him I appreciated it, but physically refusing to step through a doorway because a woman was holding it was just as silly as me waiting around for him to open a door before I was allowed to step through you know?

I can sympathize with him, in my case it's my age not nationality and intended as a sign of respect 

[laylalex 7,247]

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Agreed. I don't need anyone to hold the door open for me on the basis of my gender. But I will hold the door open for anyone, as I was raised it was the polite thing to do. When I first met my husband, he would always open the door for me. One day I tried holding the door open for him. He nearly found it impossible to step through without fussing. Something something British and chivalry and polite and something no no no you can't hold the door for me I have to hold it for you, ppppllleaaase go before me. I told him I appreciated it, but physically refusing to step through a doorway because a woman was holding it was just as silly as me waiting around for him to open a door before I was allowed to step through you know?

Ummmm, I almost thought you married my ex for a second but then (1) I looked at your timeline and (2) you managed to break your husband of this ridiculousness!!!  Well done, lady.  

[Boris Farage 353]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

No one has ever called any man I know a misogynist for holding open a door. Maybe you're doing it wrong or the stern looks have something to do with it. Either way, I think you need to change the crowd you hang with, mate.

Your mileage may vary. In my experience, the simple act of being polite to the opposite sex, no matter what her appearance is, carries the risk of public shaming. It didn't used to be that way.

 

17 minutes ago, Boiler said:

There are bound to be a few wrinkles that need ironing out, we live in a different age and when norms built up over very long periods change then it is unlikely to be a smooth process.

 

Women do not need anybody opening the door for them. Well maybe if they are in a wheelchair or something, but it is not a gender issue.

One does not need civility at all. But it does make for a more... civil western society, doesn't it?

 

2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Agreed. I don't need anyone to hold the door open for me on the basis of my gender. But I will hold the door open for anyone, as I was raised it was the polite thing to do. When I first met my husband, he would always open the door for me. One day I tried holding the door open for him. He nearly found it impossible to step through without fussing. Something something British and chivalry and polite and something no no no you can't hold the door for me I have to hold it for you, ppppllleaaase go before me. I told him I appreciated it, but physically refusing to step through a doorway because a woman was holding it was just as silly as me waiting around for him to open a door before I was allowed to step through you know?

To borrow a phrase, "It's an English male thing, you wouldn't understand." 😉 Good on him, ecstatic to know polite culture has been imported by more than myself! Honestly the best thing you could do is just let him be (as you say) chivalrous. It hurts nobody, and it makes him feel good, and appreciated. Honestly.

[Boris Farage 353]

5 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Ummmm, I almost thought you married my ex for a second but then (1) I looked at your timeline and (2) you managed to break your husband of this ridiculousness!!!  Well done, lady.  

Explain please how common courtesy is "ridiculous."

Edited August 13, 2019 by Boris Farage

[laylalex 7,247]

3 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Explain please how common courtesy is "ridiculous."

I'm not saying common courtesy is "ridiculous" -- what I'm saying is it's ridiculous for a man to assume that a woman *needs* to have him open a door for her unless she's unable to do so for whatever reason (carrying shopping, pulling a suitcase, whatever). I can open a door for myself just fine unless I have something preventing me from doing so. My fiance opens doors for me, waits for me to sit down when we're at dinner, etc. and it drives me bananas. I have told him time and again that I don't need these things to know he respects me -- as a woman and a human -- and he is trying not to reflexively do these things now, but it is a hard habit to break. I don't mouth off at him when he does it, I just gently remind him that it isn't always necessary even if it is kind and meant in kindness. 

 

Also, I'm dying  to know what your edit was since you didn't fill in the little box that says why you edited!  

12 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Your mileage may vary. In my experience, the simple act of being polite to the opposite sex, no matter what her appearance is, carries the risk of public shaming. It didn't used to be that way.

REALLY?

[yuna628 9,528]

18 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

I can sympathize with him, in my case it's my age not nationality and intended as a sign of respect 

Eh. Like I said, I was just raised to be polite. It's polite to hold the door for someone no matter whom it is. Gender was never a factor for me. I can't stand it when people are rude and slam it in your face. These days it's because they are in a rush or can't be bothered.

 

15 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

 

 

To borrow a phrase, "It's an English male thing, you wouldn't understand." 😉 Good on him, ecstatic to know polite culture has been imported by more than myself! Honestly the best thing you could do is just let him be (as you say) chivalrous. It hurts nobody, and it makes him feel good, and appreciated. Honestly.

Oh I will always let him open the door for me, if he gets there first. If I should get there first though, I'm opening the door for him, and he's going to have wrestle whatever is in the deep regions of his psyche and go through.