N-400 Denied (anyone who intends to file the day they become eligible, read this)

[afrocraft 313]

1 minute ago, coloradoman said:

I didn't misunderstand. You phrased your comment poorly. And clearly so if you feel the need to put your comment into perspective.

 

It's not always someone else's fault. Consider that.

LOL. You went off without even knowing the facts. Are you going to change your view now that you do?

[coloradoman 32]

22 minutes ago, Going through said:

Likely @Hypnos will get this decision overturned in the end.  Unfortunately he's faced with this hassle, though.

I agree. The thing that bothers me though is the demeaning way of him talking about USCIS. I get it, they're not pleasant to deal with, they make mistakes, take an awful lot of time, are not very transparent and every time I had to deal with them, I dreaded it too.

 

But from someone who actually followed his journey all the way through the end, I can't help but sense some form of entitlement on the OP's end. "Trained chimps". Is that what the OP is going to think of the person that will administer the oath one day and enable him/her to actually pursue his/her career goals? As long as they make you a citizen, fine, but if not, eff them? Becoming a citizen should be a little more than just getting a piece of paper that you need for a passport or to get the job you want. The OP had their share in this situation as well. I don't believe that making as much noise as you can is the way to get you where you want in this situation.

[Dashinka 23,251]

My wife filed by mail and had her citizenship in less than 6 months from her filing.  My advice, file by mail.

 

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

10 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

My wife filed by mail and had her citizenship in less than 6 months from her filing.  My advice, file by mail.

 

 

Was that on par with others at your local office?  The location of the local office is more the determining factor rather than anything else.

[afrocraft 313]

17 minutes ago, coloradoman said:

I agree. The thing that bothers me though is the demeaning way of him talking about USCIS. I get it, they're not pleasant to deal with, they make mistakes, take an awful lot of time, are not very transparent and every time I had to deal with them, I dreaded it too.

 

But from someone who actually followed his journey all the way through the end, I can't help but sense some form of entitlement on the OP's end. "Trained chimps". Is that what the OP is going to think of the person that will administer the oath one day and enable him/her to actually pursue his/her career goals? As long as they make you a citizen, fine, but if not, eff them? Becoming a citizen should be a little more than just getting a piece of paper that you need for a passport or to get the job you want. The OP had their share in this situation as well. I don't believe that making as much noise as you can is the way to get you where you want in this situation.

He has grounds to be pissed. Hundreds of dollars in fees plus a year's wait time is no small commitment. People should realize that USCIS does not grant citizenship; they merely confirm your eligibility for said citizenship. This is America, land of the Free and home of the Brave. We believe our rights come from a higher place, and we don't pay obeisance to bureaucrats, however powerful.

[Eric-Pris 1,602]

47 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

My advice, file by mail.

 

My advice, don't be so #### retentive, wait an extra day.  Your career goals can wait an extra 24 hours. 

 

And if you are going to book foreign travel, don't use poor internet.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Eric-Pris

[coloradoman 32]

1 hour ago, afrocraft said:

He has grounds to be pissed. Hundreds of dollars in fees plus a year's wait time is no small commitment. People should realize that USCIS does not grant citizenship; they merely confirm your eligibility for said citizenship. 

Funny. So you came to this country to make your position known that, just because someone couldn’t wait a couple of hours and potentially lost $725 in application fees, they can just call people names? Funny understanding of “Land of the Free”. 

 

And in response to your other comment, a naturalization certificate is actually issued by USCIS (it actually reads “...such person is admitted as a citizen of the United States of America”, signed by the director of USCIS). Perhaps it’s a good idea to take a moment to actually read what’s printed on yours (that is if you have one, not sure when looking at your timeline).

 

So unless you feel that there’s some other authority that can make an immigrant a citizen, I’m sure there’s plenty of people here that would like to know.

 

Unless you were just being “misunderstood” again. 

[Going through 5,668]

I really hope for @Hypnos sake that this thread doesn't get end up getting locked...I think many of us here would want to know the outcome of what happens instead of a "this thread is to be locked and not referred to elsewhere"...also a good learning point for others who later on may be in his same situation.

[Hypnos 6,576]

4 hours ago, coloradoman said:

Mistakes happen. Insulting and degrading USCIS employees to the level of trained chimps just shows a certain level of arrogance on your end.

USCIS is a poorly run federal agency. This has been my opinion for years, and is not based solely on this.

 

They made a similar mistake in the processing of my green card. In 2012 I filed a concurrent widower I-360 and I-485 in April. At the time, processing times were ~3-4 months at Dallas for family-based I-485 (which a widower petition still counts as, since widow/ers remain immediate relatives of a US citizen). Sure enough, I get my interview at Dallas for June. When I go to that interview, the first thing they tell me is that they do not have jurisdiction over my I-360 and so the interview cannot continue. I tell him that I am very sure he does, but they're adamant, and wind up sending my I-360 off to VSC. It took literally months of negotiating with the CIS Ombudsman and a lawyer experienced in the niche area of widow/er immigration lawyer before USCIS agreed to return my applications to Dallas. But then as a final mistake, instead of sending them back to Dallas, they instead sent them to the Houston field office instead. Cue another 6 weeks of Ombudsman intervention before they eventually sent them to Dallas, where I got my second interview and was approved instantly, as would have been the case nine months previously had they known what they were doing.

 

How can I be sure they erred when they sent my I-360 and I-485 to VSC? Because last year I filed a FOIA for a copy of my complete alien file, and buried deep in there was a memo from VSC stating plainly that since my I-360 and I-485 were concurrently filed as a family-based application, they should have been adjudicated by the field office and not sent to VSC, exactly as I and the Ombudsman had told them many months before. And this is not to make it all about me, I am very aware of how unimportant I am in all of this, it's just to highlight that this is not my first rodeo when it comes to USCIS errors. And of course, that error itself had the knock on effect of making it nine months later until I could file for naturalisation, which I require for employment since I'm trying to become a cop in Texas.

 

I have seen so many horror stories posted here about USCIS mistakes, sometimes very basic ones that should have at worst been caught by a supervisor, but were not. The US immigration system need a complete root-and-branch overhaul of all its operations, and has done probably for decades now. But since that would cost $$$ and it only really negatively impacts immigrants, it's obviously not a priority for anyone, and so we continue to kick this can down the road, again, and again, and again.

 

4 hours ago, coloradoman said:

Did you REALLY have to file that application at 2:30 AM??? The next morning wasn't soon enough? Now it's USCIS' fault that you made a conscious decision to cut it this close?

This thought has not been lost on me. All I can think of over these past few days is how much of a fool I was to not wait 1-2 days after the eligibility date, and that all likelihood I would have my oath letter in my hands already had I done that. That is why I posted this thread, as a cautionary tale to encourage people not to make the same mistake I did. Now that being said, I still filed within the 90 day period and by the letter of the law was unfairly denied, but if I could do it all over again I would obviously not file until a couple of days after.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Hypnos

[Dashinka 23,251]

2 hours ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

Was that on par with others at your local office?  The location of the local office is more the determining factor rather than anything else.

At the time I guess it was, but it was still surprising to us.  I guess after waiting 13 months for the ROC, my wife decided to start the N400 clock, and when the interview came up in April she was happy, but nervous.  I think things have slowed down a bit in Detroit, but that office does seem to be faster than average.

[coloradoman 32]

1 hour ago, Hypnos said:

USCIS is a poorly run federal agency. This has been my opinion for years, and is not based solely on this.

 

They made a similar mistake in the processing of my green card. In 2012 I filed a concurrent widower I-360 and I-485 in April. At the time, processing times were ~3-4 months at Dallas for family-based I-485 (which a widower petition still counts as, since widow/ers remain immediate relatives of a US citizen). Sure enough, I get my interview at Dallas for June. When I go to that interview, the first thing they tell me is that they do not have jurisdiction over my I-360 and so the interview cannot continue. I tell him that I am very sure he does, but they're adamant, and wind up sending my I-360 off to VSC. It took literally months of negotiating with the CIS Ombudsman and a lawyer experienced in the niche area of widow/er immigration lawyer before USCIS agreed to return my applications to Dallas. But then as a final mistake, instead of sending them back to Dallas, they instead sent them to the Houston field office instead. Cue another 6 weeks of Ombudsman intervention before they eventually sent them to Dallas, where I got my second interview and was approved instantly, as would have been the case nine months previously had they known what they were doing.

 

How can I be sure they erred when they sent my I-360 and I-485 to VSC? Because last year I filed a FOIA for a copy of my complete alien file, and buried deep in there was a memo from VSC stating plainly that since my I-360 and I-485 were concurrently filed as a family-based application, they should have been adjudicated by the field office and not sent to VSC, exactly as I and the Ombudsman had told them many months before. And this is not to make it all about me, I am very aware of how unimportant I am in all of this, it's just to highlight that this is not my first rodeo when it comes to USCIS errors. And of course, that error itself had the knock on effect of making it nine months later until I could file for naturalisation, which I require for employment since I'm trying to become a cop in Texas.

 

I have seen so many horror stories posted here about USCIS mistakes, sometimes very basic ones that should have at worst been caught by a supervisor, but were not. The US immigration system need a complete root-and-branch overhaul of all its operations, and has done probably for decades now. But since that would cost $$$ and it only really negatively impacts immigrants, it's obviously not a priority for anyone, and so we continue to kick this can down the road, again, and again, and again.

 

This thought has not been lost on me. All I can think of over these past few days is how much of a fool I was to not wait 1-2 days after the eligibility date, and that all likelihood I would have my oath letter in my hands already had I done that. That is why I posted this thread, as a cautionary tale to encourage people not to make the same mistake I did. Now that being said, I still filed within the 90 day period and by the letter of the law was unfairly denied, but if I could do it all over again I would obviously not file until a couple of days after.

I understand your position, and how it must feel to be in a USCIS predicament yet again. And for what it’s worth, it’s always easy for someone on the outside to give great advice after the fact. I just don’t like getting personal with people. I have had such a great experience with USCIS in the context of my N400 that I cannot support name calling of people that are just trying to do their job - some better, some worse. 

 

Enough with the smart talk. If you need any support filing a service request (that option is not that obvious), PM me and I’ll be glad to help. It worked for me several times to successfully push back Oath Ceremony appointments, and every time I sent one I either received a personalized email or a phone call from my field office. They do read those and are pretty good at responding. At least here in Denver. 

 

...and if that fails, go get the sledgehammer out. 

[Hypnos 6,576]

27 minutes ago, coloradoman said:

If you need any support filing a service request (that option is not that obvious), PM me and I’ll be glad to help. It worked for me several times to successfully push back Oath Ceremony appointments, and every time I sent one I either received a personalized email or a phone call from my field office. They do read those and are pretty good at responding.

Thank you for your suggestion. I did just find that option in ELIS, and submitted a request giving all of the information and how I believe it to be a mistake. We'll see what comes of it.

 

I did also receive a call from my congressman's office just, but she just wanted to confirm a few things before sending off the formal request for case assistance to USCIS.

[afrocraft 313]

Meh. Count me in as one who thinks USCIS is badly run. They:

• Messed up the dates on my first Green Card (perhaps it's my fault I came at POE on a Saturday);
• Got the dates wrong again on my second Green Card;
• Took 8 months to adjudicate my I-90 to correct their recurrent errors, then denied it because, well, it was too late by then to issue me a new Green Card;
• Rejected my initial filing of the I-751 petition (because I filed on the correct date; my fault!);
• Only rectified my Green Card dates and accepted a repeat I-751 after Congressman, Ombudsman intervention.

We'll see what they do with my N-400, filed soon after my window opened.

 

Trump had an unforgettable term for badly run countries. Same applies to this fee-earning agency. At least those countries can blame the evils of slavery and colonialism. What's USCIS excuse?

 

Rant over!

Edited January 29, 2019 by afrocraft

[Hypnos 6,576]

I have located another person who filed under identical circumstances. They are a member here on VJ.

 

Their first day of eligibility was 4/2/18. They filed shortly after midnight on 4/2/18, and their priority date was set as 4/1/18, with the received date as 4/2/18. They had their interview at San Jose in December and were approved and are now a US citizen.

 

I really hope VJ emails them when I message them here, and that they're still checking that email account. It seems clear that USCIS erred when denying my application.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Hypnos

[Going through 5,668]

2 hours ago, Hypnos said:

Their first day of eligibility was 4/2/18. They filed shortly after midnight on 4/2/18, and their priority date was set as 4/1/18, with the received date as 4/2/18.

I figure it's mostly some sort of glitch with how their computer system is set up when filing online.  I didn't have the problems as you did, or this other poster, only because I waited a good 10 years after becoming eligible for the N400 before filing....but I filed online, around 7pm in the evening if I remember....and my priority date was set a day behind as well.  If it's some sort of time zone issue, it wouldn't have made sense in my case.