NOIR - help please!

[Ahmed&Freda 628]

 

 

We received our NOIR today.  Those of you who have been through this before what are your thoughts of handling this on my own?  I have all the evidence for each point and have already wrote up my rebuttal letter.  

 

1.  Point number one makes no sense to me.

2.  This point is wrong.  I was only married once before and that was not his response.  He was asked why he was ok with me being married before but divorced her for talking to another man.  His response was I let him know everything upfront.  His ex hid a relationship from him.

3.  We have all the evidence that the NADRA is updated and I am listed on it not his ex.

4.  This is a complete lie as we front loaded side loaded and brought bags of evidence to which they all looked through.  I will attach what I sent before in addition to new chats, pictures and visits we had.

 

Any other advice/thoughts appreciated.  

 

Thank you!

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by TBoneTX
attachment with full name removed

[janet3 1,170]

14 hours ago, Ahmed&Freda said:

We received our NOIR today.  Those of you who have been through this before what are your thoughts of handling this on my own?  I have all the evidence for each point and have already wrote up my rebuttal letter.  

 

1.  Point number one makes no sense to me.

2.  This point is wrong.  I was only married once before and that was not his response.  He was asked why he was ok with me being married before but divorced her for talking to another man.  His response was I let him know everything upfront.  His ex hid a relationship from him.

3.  We have all the evidence that the NADRA is updated and I am listed on it not his ex.

4.  This is a complete lie as we front loaded side loaded and brought bags of evidence to which they all looked through.  I will attach what I sent before in addition to new chats, pictures and visits we had.

 

Any other advice/thoughts appreciated.  

 

Thank you!

Well..

I'm a bit confused.....

Who is still married to whom?

How often have you seen one another?

Who has visited whom?

What evidence of a "Bona fide" relationship did you present?

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by TBoneTX
attachment with full name removed from quote

[Ahmed&Freda 628]

17 minutes ago, janet3 said:

Well..

I'm a bit confused.....

Who is still married to whom?

How often have you seen one another?

Who has visited whom?

What evidence of a "Bona fide" relationship did you present?

 

No-one.  We are married to each other...We are both previously divorced.  We submitted all divorce documents.  They rose an issue about the NADRA which is like a SS card not being updated which is commonly forgotten.  We now have evidence that she is not listed on his CNIC and I am.

We have had 4 visits in the past 1 yr and half.

I've been to Pakistan twice and we have vacationed in Dubai (UAE) twice.

Evidence:  Trips, Photos, chat, call detail, notarized statements from family, western union receipts, ceremony pics with all his family. Sent at USCIS state, NVC state and brought to the Embassy.

New evidence will be the same plus tax returns, insurance info, documents above that were verified from the foreign office.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Ahmed&Freda

[Juniser 5]

You said: "They rose an issue about the NADRA which is like a SS card not being updated which is commonly forgotten.  We now have evidence that she is not listed on his CNIC and I am."

 

The Immigration Visa interview has been completed ... and at that particular time .... and the worse part of the letter ... your husband was determined to be "still married to his claimed ex-wife."  That is the #1 reason for rejection.  All the other items are not as devastating to your case as your husband considered to be still married to a previous spouse.  

 

You say you "now" have evidence to contradict this information.  Your options are best found with an immigration attorney.

[Ahmed&Freda 628]

1 minute ago, Juniser said:

You said: "They rose an issue about the NADRA which is like a SS card not being updated which is commonly forgotten.  We now have evidence that she is not listed on his CNIC and I am."

 

The Immigration Visa interview has been completed ... and at that particular time .... and the worse part of the letter ... your husband was determined to be "still married to his claimed ex-wife."  That is the #1 reason for rejection.  All the other items are not as devastating to your case as your husband considered to be still married to a previous spouse.  

 

You say you "now" have evidence to contradict this information.  Your options are best found with an immigration attorney.

No.  That statement is incorrect.  It was not determined he was still married.  We supplied all required documents for divorce.  During the interview they brought up his CNIC still had her listed on it which is a very common thing to not update your CNIC after a marriage or after a divorce and not a requirement.  In fact she is even listed in the NADRA as divorced.  So this statement on this letter makes no sense.

[Juniser 5]

12 minutes ago, Ahmed&Freda said:

No.  That statement is incorrect.  It was not determined he was still married.  We supplied all required documents for divorce.  During the interview they brought up his CNIC still had her listed on it which is a very common thing to not update your CNIC after a marriage or after a divorce and not a requirement.  In fact she is even listed in the NADRA as divorced.  So this statement on this letter makes no sense.

Here is the statement in your NOIR:

"Consular Post confirmed through the Pakistan's National Database Registration Authority (NADRA) that the beneficiary is still married to his claimed ex-wife ..."

 

In plain English your NOIR is saying that it was determined that he was still married.  That is the decision made by that Consular Officer.

 

You have to accept what has been decided by the Consular Officer and seek professional advice on how to proceed.  I am just trying help you understand the #1 problem in the NOIR.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Juniser

[Teemo 252]

I think you're approaching it in the right way, you seem to understand each issue and have lots of evidence to contradict each one of their claims. You should write a cover letter that does the same and list it as "Here is the issue you presented and here is our rebuttal"

 

Some of those statements on the record are damning - ie "he would never accept a match of this kind in his own culture" so you need to specifically say what he meant by that or how he said what he said. 

 

I think a lawyer that you could pay $500 or so to review your response and evidence submitted would be worth it given the importance of the situation. 

[Ahmed&Freda 628]

3 minutes ago, Juniser said:

Here is the statement in your NOIR:

"Consular Post confirmed through the Pakistan's National Database Registration Authority (NADRA) that the beneficiary is still married to his claimed ex-wife ..."

 

In plain English your NOIR is saying that it was determined that he was still married.  That is the decision made by that Consular Officer.

 

You have to accept what has been decided by the Consular Officer and seek professional advice on how to proceed.  I am just trying help you understand the #1 problem in the NOIR.

 

 

Thank you.  I'm full aware of what it says and what it means.  My question was could I fight this alone or need an attorney which you answered your opinion already.   The fact is they did not confirm anything as CNIC is not a requirement and we supplied both forms of divorce (religious and court papers registered with the Union council as required)  and attested.   

1 minute ago, Teemo said:

I think you're approaching it in the right way, you seem to understand each issue and have lots of evidence to contradict each one of their claims. You should write a cover letter that does the same and list it as "Here is the issue you presented and here is our rebuttal"

 

Some of those statements on the record are damning - ie "he would never accept a match of this kind in his own culture" so you need to specifically say what he meant by that or how he said what he said. 

 

I think a lawyer that you could pay $500 or so to review your response and evidence submitted would be worth it given the importance of the situation. 

Thank you!!

[Abies 1,713]

3 hours ago, Ahmed&Freda said:

Thank you.  I'm full aware of what it says and what it means.  My question was could I fight this alone or need an attorney which you answered your opinion already.   The fact is they did not confirm anything as CNIC is not a requirement and we supplied both forms of divorce (religious and court papers registered with the Union council as required)  and attested.   

Thank you!!

The questions are straight forward.. just send In your rebuttal

[Byrd1 6]

u can fight attorney they do nothing they will do what ever u already done before i was ban from.pakistan but after 4 month they embassy call me for new medical.and passport in 13day visa issued MashaaAllah i m.in usa now they just f------ be positive tell ahmed talk to me 

[Juniper 62]

7 hours ago, Abies said:

The questions are straight forward.. just send In your rebuttal

An immigration attorney is important here for options on how to proceed and respond.

 

You have 30 days for a rebuttal.  Do not waste the opportunity to exercise all the brain power you can muster to send your message

Edited June 5, 2018 by Juniper

[TBoneTX 43,058]

The attachment had to be removed from the original post and a quote of it -- the full name was visible.

(OP, you may repost the attachment when all personal information has been masked.)

 

In addition, a noncontributory post has been removed.

 

VJ Moderation

[IF&SA 4]

Unfortunately with countries where some applicants  have committed fraudulent behavior many of us genuine applicants end up paying the price . I speak as someone who had no red flags but we were delayed by our lawyers incompetence w paperwork  (and just poor luck)

 The  basic fact is for some reason there appears to be a suspicion as to whether there is a genuine relationship , or someone taking advantage of another. The paperwork snafu is common enough in developing countries , but has been flagged  as possible evidence of fraud.  The NADRA stuff has got to be sorted out and probably has been. I think the real challenge is providing a lot of evidence of a real relationship.  Being able to speak each others ( or at least a common) language should help.

IM not a big fan of lawyers but I think in this case they should be able to help you not make paperwork errors ( as has happened) and maybe guide you on evidence you may need to prove the truth

Good luck!

Edited June 5, 2018 by IF&SA
spelling, grammar

[pushbrk 12,114]

It sounds like you have the evidence you need.  Present it professionally.  Your "argument" to go with the evidence, needs to be professional, not accusatory or "argumentative".  Keep it explanatory.  Know that you have a good chance of USCIS reaffirming the petition approval but that is not an approved visa by any means.  A Senior Consular Officer and perhaps Senior Counsel at the Consulate will be making the final decision.  They tend to lean towards supporting their colleague's previous decision but they do need actual reasons to do so.  If you've provided evidence to indicate each and every reason they gave for denying the visa, they will need something MORE to deny the visa.

[CM&KV 72]

Is it possible for you to reupload the attachment with senstive information covered up? I'm just curious as to what it states and what the law says in Pakistan, since someone's comment states that someone is still considered married to their prior spouse.

 

Thank you in advance.