221g Confusion - Where is my fiance's case??

[SanjivJivan 1]

My fiance had his interview on February 15th, which was the morning in Nepal but the night of Valentine's Day here in the U.S. I was getting all romantic and optimistic, but there is no love in legislation, and the consular officer refused my fiance's visa. The reason? We included a photo of a Hindu ceremony which he believed meant we were married, and ineligible for the K1 visa. Now it's been about a month, and I have been all kinds of confused, thinking he was outright denied, to thinking it was AP, and there was a sliver of hope. The CEAC status has been administrative processing since the interview. At times I have felt a whole lot of hope for the K1, and other times feel resigned to make other plans and slowly but surely apply for the CR1.

 

A little background: I am a US citizen but I have been in Nepal for several years. I met my fiance in 2015 and now we have a child together. We are young and only want to be in America for a few years to earn some money. I have never posted on VJ, but have manically studied the site since we began our petition. Of all the things I did read, somehow I never managed to find anything about a religious ceremony being grounds for denial with the K1. On the contrary, I had read some things that said it was okay, and was not a legal marriage. Well, now I know! The thing is, I purposefully never filed for marriage because I wanted my partner to apply for this visa. In retrospect, it would have been so much easier to just get married. I have been with my fiance for the vast majority of our relationship in Nepal, and have struggled with immigration there because I was trying to stay on a different visa than the much easier marriage visa. The 'ceremony' we did have was also before I was even the legal age for marriage in Nepal (20 years old), and it wasn't legal. Very informal, just the two of us and a Hindu priest, and truly for religious reasons. 

 

Anyways, now my fiance has been refused under 221g, and I am having trouble understanding what to do. I have worked with the embassy in the past, and since I knew someone at the consular personally, I was able to ask him to check on the application. All he was able to find was that it was refused because our unofficial ceremony was deemed to be a legal marriage. I have sent a few well thought-out, well-written letters, but I fear they are not even read. All I want to know is should I give up the K1 or not? Is this administrative processing going to bear any fruit, or is it really just over?? I was informed our case is being returned to USCIS - I don't really understand if this is normal for AP, or if it is a set up for the case to expire. I feel very distraught, because I am in the U.S. with our toddler alone now, and my fiance and I don't even want to live in the U.S. long term. But right now? We really want to be here, together, while I am working and finishing school. Another year for the CR1 and it would almost be pointless...

[TNJ17 1,329]

I don’t understand why people are still making this mistake. 

 

Im gonna tell you like it is because I don’t know any other way and it may help someone in the future who reads this. Your K1 is gone forever. No other K1s can be filed either. You never should have had any celebration of any type. It doesn’t matter that you are not married in paper. For that country and their culture in their eyes you are married and that is grounds for denial. Your case will be in AP until it’s sent back to USCIS to expire. Then and only then, probably months from now, can you apply for a new petition. 

 

Your only solution to be together is go there and get married again because you’re gonna need a marriage certificate to prove you’re married then file for CR1. You’re gonna wait 12-14 months for visa in hand if no other delays. They won’t expedite your case just because you got denied a K1. You start all over. That’s the price you pay for trying to be snarky. 

 

A celebration ceremony is too married for a K1 and it will always get denied. And it is not married enough for a CR1. So there. I hope it’s lesson learned for you. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by TNJ17

[Ben&Zian 4,398]

Couldn't have stated it better than @TNJ17 . This is a heavily discussed topic about ceremonies in a lot of countries and why never to do them let a lone show photographs of it to the CO's. 

You're too married for a K-1, but not married enough for a spousal visa. Searching here on VJ alone will show hundreds probably of people who have been denied or asked this same thing and majority again, say don't do it for any reason but wait til later after the marriage in the US to go back to the home country and do it for family/friends/ect.

 

Honestly if your goal is not to stay in the US anyways, why bother? It's a lot of money and time to spend just to come back and "save" up.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

34 minutes ago, SanjivJivan said:

My fiance had his interview on February 15th, which was the morning in Nepal but the night of Valentine's Day here in the U.S. I was getting all romantic and optimistic, but there is no love in legislation, and the consular officer refused my fiance's visa. The reason? We included a photo of a Hindu ceremony which he believed meant we were married, and ineligible for the K1 visa. Now it's been about a month, and I have been all kinds of confused, thinking he was outright denied, to thinking it was AP, and there was a sliver of hope. The CEAC status has been administrative processing since the interview. At times I have felt a whole lot of hope for the K1, and other times feel resigned to make other plans and slowly but surely apply for the CR1.

 

A little background: I am a US citizen but I have been in Nepal for several years. I met my fiance in 2015 and now we have a child together. We are young and only want to be in America for a few years to earn some money. I have never posted on VJ, but have manically studied the site since we began our petition. Of all the things I did read, somehow I never managed to find anything about a religious ceremony being grounds for denial with the K1. On the contrary, I had read some things that said it was okay, and was not a legal marriage. Well, now I know! The thing is, I purposefully never filed for marriage because I wanted my partner to apply for this visa. In retrospect, it would have been so much easier to just get married. I have been with my fiance for the vast majority of our relationship in Nepal, and have struggled with immigration there because I was trying to stay on a different visa than the much easier marriage visa. The 'ceremony' we did have was also before I was even the legal age for marriage in Nepal (20 years old), and it wasn't legal. Very informal, just the two of us and a Hindu priest, and truly for religious reasons. 

 

Anyways, now my fiance has been refused under 221g, and I am having trouble understanding what to do. I have worked with the embassy in the past, and since I knew someone at the consular personally, I was able to ask him to check on the application. All he was able to find was that it was refused because our unofficial ceremony was deemed to be a legal marriage. I have sent a few well thought-out, well-written letters, but I fear they are not even read. All I want to know is should I give up the K1 or not? Is this administrative processing going to bear any fruit, or is it really just over?? I was informed our case is being returned to USCIS - I don't really understand if this is normal for AP, or if it is a set up for the case to expire. I feel very distraught, because I am in the U.S. with our toddler alone now, and my fiance and I don't even want to live in the U.S. long term. But right now? We really want to be here, together, while I am working and finishing school. Another year for the CR1 and it would almost be pointless...

You need to give up the K1 route and go for the CR-1 route now. Because according to the embassy you are considered married in a religious ceremony even though you may not be official married by the Nepalese government. This is something that is routinely asked and talked about here on VJ. We here have ALWAYS advised against doing any kind of religious or engagement ceremony because it conveys to the CO that you guys are traditionally married. Where you went wrong was doing the traditional ceremony and again by putting the picture in your application for them to see it. So even though it was not "legal" per say by the Nepal government it is considered legal by traditional methods and thus you are married. So go ahead fly to Nepal, get married, and file for the CR-1.

If you don't want you or your child to grow up in the USA then why not just go live in Nepal?

 

 

Edit: Where have you seen here on VJ where anyone has said to actually do a religious ceremony?

Edited March 16, 2018 by cyberfx1024

[TNJ17 1,329]

Everyone talks about this on this website, that they wanna do a celebration before leaving their country and they don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Everyone and their mothers tell them no don’t do it you’ll get denied but people don’t listen. Then they come back after their interview talking about how they were denied because of it. There are hundreds of cases in this forum of people who did exactly that. Even though we all advised not to. When you’re going through a very meticulous process like US immigration you need to do A LOT of research on the process so you know what mistakes not to make. The mistake you made was a super rookie and careless one because as the name “fiancé” says it all you cannot be married in any way. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, TNJ17 said:

Everyone talks about this on this website, that they wanna do a celebration before leaving their country and they don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Everyone and their mothers tell them no don’t do it you’ll get denied but people don’t listen. Then they come back after their interview talking about how they were denied because of it. There are hundreds of cases in this forum of people who did exactly that. Even though we all advised not to. When you’re going through a very meticulous process like US immigration you need to do A LOT of research on the process so you know what mistakes not to make. The mistake you made was a super rookie and careless one because as the name “fiancé” says it all you cannot be married in any way. 

This is so true and I remember many cases of OP's literally berating people and getting mad because they don't want to hear the truth... Then a couple months later they come back asking advice on how to somehow get around being denied or what should they do next. It's infuriating to say the least. But the OP should have known better if they had worked at the embassy as she claims.

[Ben&Zian 4,398]

9 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

This is so true and I remember many cases of OP's literally berating people and getting mad because they don't want to hear the truth... Then a couple months later they come back asking advice on how to somehow get around being denied or what should they do next. It's infuriating to say the least. But the OP should have known better if they had worked at the embassy as she claims.

 

Think she said she knew some people there but either way. Yes this is heavily discussed and discouraged. Obviously a party in a lot of countries is fine; but religious ceremonies are big no no's, especially in countries with heavy traditions, even if they think it isn't a "legal" marriage, it tends to 'backfire'.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Ben&Zian

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

2 minutes ago, Ben&Zian said:

 

Think she said she knew some people there but either way. Yes this is heavily discussed and discouraged. Obviously a party in a lot of countries is fine; but religious ceremonies are big no no's, especially in countries with heavy traditions, even if they think it isn't a "legal" marriage, it tends to 'backfire'.

I have worked with the embassy in the past, and since I knew someone at the consular personally, I was able to ask him to check on the application. All he was able to find was that it was refused because our unofficial ceremony was deemed to be a legal marriage. I have sent a few well thought-out, well-written letters, but I fear they are not even read.

[Ben&Zian 4,398]

4 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I have worked with the embassy in the past, and since I knew someone at the consular personally, I was able to ask him to check on the application. All he was able to find was that it was refused because our unofficial ceremony was deemed to be a legal marriage. I have sent a few well thought-out, well-written letters, but I fear they are not even read.

 

Not sure if that still means personally worked at the embassy or just WITH the embassy. Like me saying I've worked with the IRS to fix back taxes owed, doesn't mean I've worked for them. Nor do I owe taxes just using that as an example hah.. but either way, doesn't matter overall in her situation currently.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Ben&Zian

[SanjivJivan 1]

Okay, to clarify, I have worked with the embassy through a grant, not within. I know some people there, been to some cocktail parties, whathaveyou.

 

And I appreciate honesty, but not condescending 'I told you so'. I never came across anything about religious ceremonies being an issue. I actually read advice on a law firm website that explicitly said it was acceptable if not a legal union. Just another case of lawyers being worthless, I guess? When I was first preparing the petition, I was in a remote part of the country, and without internet. I was able to access the internet to research the process for a few minutes a few times on a mobile phone. We had this ceremony within a few months of meeting, long before we considered a visa application at all. This is definitely not a case of being told not to do it and doing it anyways. We have always been planning to have a wedding in the US, followed by legal documents, if he can come, which is why I thought K1 was the best option, in addition to the shorter wait. I suppose it is a case of being out in the jungle and mistakenly thinking K1 was the right choice when it would have been better to do CR1 from the beginning.

 

Forgive me for saying but if this is a rookie mistake, what applicant is an expert? Isn't everyone who applies for a K1 a rookie, unless they have applied before? We all learn as we go, unless we have direct previous experience. And some of us don't have access to the internet. In my case, even when I did have internet, I never ever came across information about this problem, just information about the 100 other concerns I had. The only time I even learned about it was after the interview.

 

My question is simply is this case being processed further or is it showing AP when it is really denied? It seems like there response here is that it is basically denied. I have had that feeling already. But I am still a little foggy on this, because it is listed as 221g and has been updated several times. Is that typical as well? Is there a way of knowing if it has really left the embassy, and is it even worth contacting a congressman to find out?

 

I did write that I do want to live in my fiance's country, but I am finishing my degree in the United States. I studied there for some time, but the education system is really inadequate there, even though there are so many smart people from there who do go through the Nepali education system. A huge majority of people who can go, go to study abroad for that reason. I have been ready with plan B from before the interview, which is to finish this semester, go home to my partner in Nepal over the summer, and study abroad next semester in a country where my partner can live with me. And in the meantime, our paperwork would be run through the gamut and result in a CR1 interview.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

4 minutes ago, SanjivJivan said:

Okay, to clarify, I have worked with the embassy through a grant, not within. I know some people there, been to some cocktail parties, whathaveyou.

 

And I appreciate honesty, but not condescending 'I told you so'. I never came across anything about religious ceremonies being an issue. I actually read advice on a law firm website that explicitly said it was acceptable if not a legal union. Just another case of lawyers being worthless, I guess? When I was first preparing the petition, I was in a remote part of the country, and without internet. I was able to access the internet to research the process for a few minutes a few times on a mobile phone. We had this ceremony within a few months of meeting, long before we considered a visa application at all. This is definitely not a case of being told not to do it and doing it anyways. We have always been planning to have a wedding in the US, followed by legal documents, if he can come, which is why I thought K1 was the best option, in addition to the shorter wait. I suppose it is a case of being out in the jungle and mistakenly thinking K1 was the right choice when it would have been better to do CR1 from the beginning.

 

Forgive me for saying but if this is a rookie mistake, what applicant is an expert? Isn't everyone who applies for a K1 a rookie, unless they have applied before? We all learn as we go, unless we have direct previous experience. And some of us don't have access to the internet. In my case, even when I did have internet, I never ever came across information about this problem, just information about the 100 other concerns I had. The only time I even learned about it was after the interview.

 

My question is simply is this case being processed further or is it showing AP when it is really denied? It seems like there response here is that it is basically denied. I have had that feeling already. But I am still a little foggy on this, because it is listed as 221g and has been updated several times. Is that typical as well? Is there a way of knowing if it has really left the embassy, and is it even worth contacting a congressman to find out?

 

I did write that I do want to live in my fiance's country, but I am finishing my degree in the United States. I studied there for some time, but the education system is really inadequate there, even though there are so many smart people from there who do go through the Nepali education system. A huge majority of people who can go, go to study abroad for that reason. I have been ready with plan B from before the interview, which is to finish this semester, go home to my partner in Nepal over the summer, and study abroad next semester in a country where my partner can live with me. And in the meantime, our paperwork would be run through the gamut and result in a CR1 interview.

Thank you for responding back to me on here and I admit I was alittle condescending but not really meaning that in a hurtful way. It's just like we said on here that it gets tiring on here trying to help people when they ask a question like Religious/Traditional Marriages then the OP gets mad because they don't like our response at all. Then months later come back as being denied and asking for help. I am not saying this is the case with you at all it's just something we have seen on here more times than we can count.

I completely understand how frustrated you must be right now and rightfully so. If you read some where from a attorney that it's ok then you do it and get denied for doing that the I would be mad just like you. But what we have seen many times as well is that a lot of attorneys are not really aware of all the intricacies that go on in different cultures. So something like a traditional engagement party would be good for one culture while totally not being ok with a different culture at all. Which something like a traditional ceremony in the Nepali, Indian, and Pakistani cultures is a big thing and usually entitles that individuals are married and this is why the CO rightfully denied you.

 

No applicant is a expert at all and that is understandable. That is why VJ is here to be the sounding board if you have a question or a issue. We are not PC on here, but we will dispense good advice to you and give you a good dose of reality. Do not get mad at some people, get fired up to get your case to the finish line.

 

Your case is not in AP it is Denied. If you want to then contact a congressman to see where it sits because it won't hurt anything to just inquire on it. But when it comes back that you are like we are saying then you need to get married and file the CR-1.

 

I am well aware of how the educational system is in Nepal. I have many friends and former coworkers of mine that are from Nepal. I even took up one on his offer to stay with him in Kathmandu for week a couple years ago. I love the Nepali people, and I hate how the rest of the world takes advantage of them for labor purposes.

 

[yuna628 9,680]

OP: Your case is well and truly denied. Forget about what it's showing, it may stay like that a long time before it gets moved to wherever it needs to go. Letter writing isn't going to help. Your only option is to decide what to do going forward. It has long been held here that 'religious ceremonies' can lead to being too married for a K1, regardless of if there was any formal or legal marriage contract. Mistakes happen, but this was a big one. Marry officially and legally when you are both ready and able to do so, and then decide where you want to live your lives together. TBH, green cards are for living long term in the US, and it seems kind of not the best plan to go through the lengthy process of obtaining a green card, only to give it up later on. It may be better to finish your education, and live with your husband in his own country.

[TNJ17 1,329]

I would really have to disagree that only the people who have been through this know their ups and down. Wrong. That is why you research everything before filing. We had never done anything immigration wise before and we did months and months of research to find out every little detail of this process so that we are not surprised with the outcome and end up making mistakes we wouldn’t have if we had only done the homework. Research. Research and then research some more. 

[Jaquelly 1,647]

Your K-1 is shot. CR1 or find an alternative. Also, we may not be experts, but there should be common sense about having any sort of ceremony with any sort of religious figure AND THEN including PICTURES in your packet. 

 

Come on, man.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

1. No religious ceremony for a K1.

 

2. AP stands for several administration processes : Background / security checks , when waiting for additional requested documents
and it is also used when a petition is being returned simply because it takes "administrative processing" to do so.
Hope to have explained your AP confusion.

 

3. Contact your senator to inquire where your case is to be certain it has been returned which I believe it has or is in the process to be returned due to the 

fact that you were told it was being returned.

4. Your next petition would be to marry and file for a CR1.

5. A returned petition for a K1 is dead. It will be purposely expired and there is absolutely no chance to revive it or to even change it to a CR1.
You have to start over. I don't know what you mean by "your paperwork being a CR1 interview."  Only with a new petition will you have a CR1 
interview, a K1 can not be converted to a CR1 but maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that.

6. You can immediately marry and file a CR1 if you want to. No waiting is required as was suggested by another poster.
 

7. It is a snowball's chance in hell to have them change their minds with a letter.
You can try, you have nothing to lose at this point, I have seen a few initially refused cases where the CO changed their minds but those are 
very few and that was while they still had the petition at the embassy within days.
In those cases the petitioner was on the premises and immediately took action and was allowed to present their request to the CO or section chief
after the interview. Once they decide which track you are on it is pretty much written in stone that your case follows that track. Outcome for a returned
K1 to USCIS is expiration, no exceptions, I have not seen one single K1 case resurrected here on VJ for over a decade. 
In the few threads where the petitioner thought they had it overturned and reaffirmed it was still a dead end with the petitioner being misinformed
about the same dead K1.
 

Yes, we all make mistakes even though we research. I am sorry for your situation. Better luck next time !