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Jaanu2017

22I(g) refusal on CR-1 visa

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Hello everyone,

First off, Merry Christmas to all of you.

I'm in a big stress even though its a magical time of the year which I didn't expect this much. My immigrant wife just had her interview in US Embassy in India yesterday on her immigrant visa application (CR-1), and she was handed over a white slip of 221(g) which states that her case is now put under Administrative processing. Now I know that she is not the only one whose case put for AP, but the way she was questioned on our marriage, relationship and other stuffs that I have never heard of nor expected it. Let me give you the basic facts about our case. I'm a US citizen but originally from India who has been living here in the US for the last 25 years. I was previously married 3 times here in the US but none of those wives were from my original country (India). I am 48 yrs old and currently unemployed. And I've been living together with one of my ex wives in the same house but different room as a roommate wherein my ex wife is supporting me as of now and claiming me as a dependent on her tax returns. My ex wife is joint sponsor for my current wife. And my current wife is only 19 and half. I totally understand that all these negative factors are BIG red flags and anyone could easily pass their negative judgment on our relationship and the marriage itself. I totally understand it.

However, what I don't understand it- (1) Are older people (men or women) not allowed to marry much and much younger people so long they are all in legal age of marriage? (2) Would their marriage AUTOMATICALLY be considered a sham marriage because of big age gap between them? Does a person who was previously married before, even if many times, is not allowed to fall in love again without questioning his/her intention and not allowed to petition for US visa just because s/he is too much older than his/her spouse and have had married previously? Can two people still be good friend after divorce and live together in one roof as friends? For them to live together in one roof would automatically be considered a fraud and many more assumptions??

My wife and I are truly in love. We are married almost 2 years now. I had tons of tons of chatting and calling records, but we don't have much pictures...rather a few like 30 of them which were to be only selfies which were greatly questioned. We had a love marriage and married in the civil court. Nobody attended the wedding from neither of sides as we married without anyone's knowledge. Because my wife knew that her parents will never approve our marriage/relationship because her mother is a year younger than me...And when we talk about Indian culture then no parent would EVER allow their daughter to marry a guy who is more than10 years older...and a guy who was previously married 3 times...It never happened. Let alone to be when my wife and I have 30 yrs age gap between us. Its ok in Western World, some Asian and Latin American countries but not in India. Just to remind you that my wife who came after me than me going after her with that strong feelings. Also, I do look much younger than my age as I'm often told that I'm only 29-30 at most. However, I never lied anything to her. I told her everything up front. Am I a monster just because I'm so older and with a much younger woman???

We had only 4 wedding pictures which were taken in civil court. We don't have anyone in Delhi, where I was originally came from...because I don't have any friend left there because I have been living in America for the last 25 years and all of my friends have disappeared in their own world as we never kept any contact. My wife is not from Delhi as she is from south India...So obviously she didn't have anyone in Delhi. And none of my family members attended our wedding because my sisters and brother wanted me to invite them with big celebrations and throw them an extravenza wedding ceremony...Besides, they are not approval of me marrying such a young girl especially when my nephews and nieces are much older than my wife. So we didn't have anyone to take picture...Will write more later...

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None of the things you mention automatically means you are a fraud, but each of them makes USCIS and the CO look closer at your case; these are what we call "red flags", as you correctly state. They make it more difficult but not impossible to get approved. You have not one or two, which many couples have, but about half a dozen, which will make approval extremely difficult.

Since you are unemployed, who not move to your wife and live with her in India for a while? Living together abroad for an extended period of tie is excellent bonafide relationship evidence, and it would also mean you no longer live with your ex-wife.


Bye: Penguin

Me: Irish/ Swiss citizen, and now naturalised US citizen. Husband: USC; twin babies born Feb 08 in Ireland and a daughter in Feb 2010 in Arkansas who are all joint Irish/ USC. Did DCF (IR1) in 6 weeks via the Dublin, Ireland embassy and now living in Arkansas.

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Imagine your teenage daughter coming home with the man that could be her grandfather and saying that he's the love of her life. Your age gap is a HUGE red flag. Living with ex-wife who is also your sponsor is another red flag. How are you planning on supporting your teenage wife when she gets her? Will your ex pay for her expenses and needs also?

Edited by Penguin_ie

K1

29.11.2013 - NoA1

06.02.2014 - NoA2

01.04.2014 - Interview. 

AoS

03.2015 - AoS started.

09.2015 - Green Card received.  

RoC

24.07.2017 - NoA1.

01.08.2018 - RoC approved. 

 

 

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****** One posted edited to remove overly judgmental comments. Post civilly with constructive advice for the Op, or do not post *****

Edited by Penguin_ie

Bye: Penguin

Me: Irish/ Swiss citizen, and now naturalised US citizen. Husband: USC; twin babies born Feb 08 in Ireland and a daughter in Feb 2010 in Arkansas who are all joint Irish/ USC. Did DCF (IR1) in 6 weeks via the Dublin, Ireland embassy and now living in Arkansas.

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i won't judge but CO will judge you. Big red flags and they say it is AP, most certain you will get denied in the end of AP.

i have missing papers with 221g and even i think i might get deny too because he lives with his family and a part time job. CO just want to see a healthy longlasting relationship.

If denied, you can go and live with her in India since you don't have a job or anything that make you tie to your country.


AOS, EAD
Spoiler

Sent (i-485, i-765) : 4 March '17

Received: 6 March '17

Noa1: 22 March '17

Hardcopy received: 25 March '17

I-485 RFIE: 29 March '17

RFIE response received: 19 April '17

Biometrics: 20 April '17

Service Request: 12 June '17 (100 days)

Answer: Case is in our current processing time 13 June '17

2nd Service Request: 3 July '17 (118 days)

New card is producing: 5 July '17 (120 days) NOTE* they didn't even assign someone to my Service request.

 

3
3
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
K1 
Spoiler

 

Sent : 6 June '16

Noa1 : 9 June '16

Noa2 : 18 August '16

NVC Received: 30 August '16

Case Number Assigned: 1 September '16

Interview date: 5 December '16

Missing papers: i-134 and police record. Gonna send ASAP.

Sent missing papers : 3 January '17

Ap : 5 January '17

Ap update and got mail that says documents received: 9 January '17

Ready and nonimmigrant visa: 13 January '17

Issued: 17 January '17

Visa in the hand: 18 January '17

POE: 26 January '17

Marriage Date: 3 February '17

TOOK  7 MONTHS

 

7
 
 

 

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The age gap is a hurdle for sure, but with enough evidence (such as plenty of face time, meaning time spent in the same space) it can be overcome. VJ has enough such stories, which you can search and read about -- so age difference alone is not a predictor of visa denial.

Living with your ex-wife, being out of a job and having your ex-wife support and co-sponsor you might be pushing the limits of what one can overcome. Your current life as it is would be scrutinized by most any CO, so I do not think this is country/tradition specific, though you also have that going for you.

I suggest you make a better game plan, get a job, keep the job, move out, start saving money, file your taxes and start a new life on your own first, then you can think of bringing your wife to the US.


 “Rivers know this: there is no hurry. We shall get there someday.” - WTP 

Spoiler

USCIS
09/07/16: I-130 mailed
09/12/16: NOA1 email
01/11/17: Received an RFE
02/20/17 RFE Response
03/01/17: NOA2 / I-130 Approved (letter)

 

NVC 

03/17/17: NVC received

03/21/17: Submitted DS-261 (Online Choice of Address and Agent)

03/22/17: Received DS-261+ AOS Bill
03/22/17: AOS Bill Paid
03/27/17: Received + Paid IV Bill

04/20/17: PCC + New Birth Certificate received (took 4+ weeks)
04/25/17: Sent AOS + IV Package
06/27/17: CC confirmed on the phone (NVC)
06/28/17: Interview date confirmed on the phone (NVC)
06/30/17: P4 Letter received (via email)
07/06/17: Second identical P4 email received
07/10/17: Our case left NVC
07/13/17: Case arrived at New Delhi Consulate

07/18/17: Email received from New Delhi Embassy about Biometrics/VAC

07/18/17: Email received from New Delhi Embassy (missing Marriage Certificate - must have lost it since we included this in the RFE during the USCIS stage + got approved!)

07/18/17: Biometrics scheduled via UStraveldocs site
07/21/17: Biometrics completed

07/25/17: Medical scheduled (Max in Lajpat)

07/26/17: Medical completed (will be ready to pick up in 3-4 days)
08/01/17: Medical papers ready for pickup

08/16/17: Interview Day

08/16/17: Visa Approved - Woohoo! 💕

08/17/17: Visa issued + passport ready for pickup

08/18/17: Passport and sealed envelops picked up

08/19/17: Immigration Fee ($220) paid via ELIS
08/25/17: Plane ticket purchased (POE on Sep) 😍
09/14/17: POE at Dulles 

 

Here is our Embassy review and interview details http://www.visajourney.com/reviews/view-dos-cis-reviews.php?entry=22377

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There is something very strange about a 46yo, thrice divorced man secretly marrying a foreign 17yo girl (were you dating her at 16?) while cohabitating with one of his exwives who financially supports him as he is unemployed. Take the time to mull that over.

I did not say that I'm 46 yrs old nor I said about marrying a 17 year girl...Anyway thnx for your response. Nevertheless, whatever truth is in my situation, I have written here...and I know it seems strange but it doesn't mean my marriage is sham marriage nor it means that I have done anything wrong. I don't know much about laws, but I do know that a much older man can marry with a much younger girl (within legal age)...and people can still be friends with their exes and some do live under one roof as friends. Now is it norm? Maybe not but it is certainly not illegal nor any fraud.

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I did not say that I'm 46 yrs old nor I said about marrying a 17 year girl...Anyway thnx for your response. Nevertheless, whatever truth is in my situation, I have written here...and I know it seems strange but it doesn't mean my marriage is sham marriage nor it means that I have done anything wrong. I don't know much about laws, but I do know that a much older man can marry with a much younger girl (within legal age)...and people can still be friends with their exes and some do live under one roof as friends. Now is it norm? Maybe not but it is certainly not illegal nor any fraud.

Maybe so, maybe no. One thing you do have to contend with is USCIS. Cultural mores aside, they have the only opinion that counts in the end. It really doesn't matter, how you see your present situation, or how anyone on VJ does.

You are 48. You've said she is 19 and a half, and that you have been married for 2 years, which would make her 17 when you married. Simple maths. You have three previous ex-wives, one of which you live with, and she still supports you, and you say she is happy to sponsor this 4th wife. No matter how you look at it, that's odd. In the eyes of USCIS, all of this will lead to questions, and you can expect to be heavily scrutinized because of your circumstances, and your history.


I can explain it to you. But I can't understand it for you.

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While the age difference might be out of the norm, the really unusual thing here is the fact that you're still close enough to your ex-wife that she is actually still in the picture to the point where she is your joint sponsor. Just speaking from my own experience here, but previous marriages seem to really arouse suspicion from USCIS, especially if they were to another foreigner. That's my two cents.

Also, only four photos? That's hardly any. Photos are huge part of the 'bona fide' evidence, and if you barely provided any, that just further arouses their suspicions. You need to start thinking of how you can provide better evidence, since on paper, whatever you gave just isn't enough.

If you don't like the advice given here, seek help from a legal professional/lawyer. Although they will probably tell you similar things to what you've already heard here..

Edited by millefleur

03639.png                  

                  🇷🇺  ♥  CR-1 via DCF in Moscow! ♥  🇺🇸

Spoiler

26-Jul-2016: Married abroad :3
21-Dec-2016: I-130 filed at Embassy
29-Dec-2016: I-130 approved! Yay! 

17-Jan-2017: Case number received :]

21-Mar-2017: Medical Exam completed

24-Mar-2017: Interview - approved!

29-Mar-2017: CR-1 Visa received (via mail)

02-Apr-2017: USCIS Immigrant (GC) Fee paid

28-Jun-2017: Port of Entry @ PDX

21-Jul-2017: No SSN after three weeks; applied in person at the SSA

22-Jul-2017: GC arrived in the mail

31-Jul-2017: SSN arrived via mail, hurrah!

                     I-90 GC Replacment (for Erroneous GC)

Spoiler

22-Jul-2017: GC arrives in the mail – middle name is cut off 😕

01-Aug-2017: Sent in I-90 online via website

05-Aug-2017: Biometrics scheduled

23-Aug-2017: Biometrics done @ USCIS office; kept GC!

16-Jul-2018: RFE for supporting docs!! D:<

31-Jul-2018: USCIS Appointment at local field office..

22-Aug-2018: Mailed GC back to USCIS in response to RFE

29-Aug-2018: GC received by USCIS

17-Sept-2018: Received CORRECTED GC in the mail! Finally!!

 

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I did not say that I'm 46 yrs old nor I said about marrying a 17 year girl...Anyway thnx for your response. Nevertheless, whatever truth is in my situation, I have written here...and I know it seems strange but it doesn't mean my marriage is sham marriage nor it means that I have done anything wrong. I don't know much about laws, but I do know that a much older man can marry with a much younger girl (within legal age)...and people can still be friends with their exes and some do live under one roof as friends. Now is it norm? Maybe not but it is certainly not illegal nor any fraud.

You said you are 48 now and that she is 19 now. SO that means you were 46 when you married and she was ONLY 17



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Roel:

I totally understand what you are trying to say here. So no hurt feeling. And I have already said in my initial posting that I do know now that there were many BIG red flags given all these situations. As for my teenage daughter to come home with a much who could be her grandfather then I honestly don't know how I would feel or react, but please try to understand a few things here- I certainly don't look like more than 28 yrs old and my wife doesn't look like 19-20 either. Everyone thinks of me being only under 28-29 and they think of her being of 23-24 yrs old...Whoever sees us together even her family members and her friends and strangers on the road, they always say what a best couple we are...as a perfect. So there is no way to know about my age, that I can tell you for sure, otherwise I don't think even for a second that my wife would have been interested in me at first place if I would have looked like typical 48 yrs old man. That's why when I told her about my real age, she refused to believe it...and when I showed her my documents to prove to her about my age then she still wanna pursue relationship with me more than ever. She never wanted to go out of India because she is from a very-very wealthy family and she is the only child of her parents. They are from a very influential family in their place. Her parents already put many-many real estates in her name already...too much gold and other investments.

But I understand that consular officers are going with the numbers attached to my age than my look. But big age-gap is very common and norm in American society which is why a relationship with huge age gap between the parties might raise red flag when it comes to US immigration but not even one case was denied based on this reason alone. Besides, if this is the reason to deny a case then USCIS would have denied my I-130 petition right away when I filed it first one and half years back which made the whole case to have rolled over. Under Bills of Right its mentioned in US constitution that everyone has a right to pursuit for happiness, life and freedom. So given all these constitutions, do I not have the right to marry whomever I want and be with her? Am I not allowed to marry much younger girl and not allowed to bring here to live with me just because I'm much-much older than her?? Am I to be automatically considered a monster and my marriage is not real just because I'm much much older than my wife, married many times previously, being unemployed and living with my ex??? How could I overcome this pre-set assumptions of the govt. being me in a "sham marriage" and Im a monster?

As for how I'm planning on supporting my wife if she ever comes over here then I will be supporting her the way I've been supporting her until now in the last 2 years along with my mom too. Just because I'm unemployed RIGHT NOW, then that doesn't mean I'm totally broke. Remember, I have been in the US for the last 25 years...So obviously, I did work and made money...so I have enough saving but not up to what they require for I-864. And I will be working in 6 months when my studying would be completed as I'm studying for the last 2 years...something related to medical field. That's why I have minimized my expenses lately to budget things up...and that's why I'm sharing the apartment with my ex wife; otherwise its very expensive to rent an apartment in NYC...

==========

Dorothy:

See, what will happen to your case or mine case then nobody can say now...I do not believe in assumptions which you have provided here. As for you saying that if my wife's visa is denied then I can go and live with her in India then though I do respect your opinion, but I'm NOT looking opinions on what I will do after FINAL denial (after ALL appeals exhausted); rather I'm looking opinions as to what should I do now to proceed from now on. I have no plan as of now to go to India to live there, otherwise I would not have left India 25 yrs ago. Just because I have no job as of now here then that doesn't mean I have no ties in the US. I have 25 yrs of my life in this country for a reason and not to go back to India. I will try EVERY legal way to bring my wife to be with me over here. If I would still be failed then I would think later on what I would do, but for now I'm totally focused on bringing her over here. That's it.
Dorothy, you and others can judge me or my situations as much as you guys want. I will not get upset because I know that I'm posting all these on a public site wherein everyone is entitled to express their own opinions, wrong or right...and most people on public sites are very judgmental, which is still fine but it won't do any good. I'm looking info on how to proceed in dealing with this 221(g) and what would happen next and what I should be doing meanwhile to prepare myself...etc..etc..
============================================
Amul:

As I said more than once that I do know and do acknowledge that there are many BIG red flags in my case, however there is nothing I could about my age compared to my wife's age AND there is nothing I could about me being previously married a few times. So these two factors alone are driving CO nuts and would drive them wild even if live away from my ex and get a job and keep the ball rolling.

Getting a job is not a problem but those consular officers who interviewed my wife were more focused on huge age gap and the number of times I married before...They were talking to my wife as I'm a monster. They told her I would treat her as a daughter than wife...They asked if she wanna be treated a daughter?? They asked her if she have had s*x with me...My wife replied yes...Then they asked her if I was still good in bed and if she was satisfied by me in bed...Now these questions are totally out of portions, unethical and abuse of power. I have never ever heard any govt. official to go for this length to have asked these type of questions. They even told my wife that why she didn't like 30 or 35 yrs old guy over me?? They even asked her that what she likes about me as they said that there is nothing good about me...They right away asked my wife's cellular phone...and right away copied SIM card information and retrieve everything right in front of her on a reader.

Everything and anything on my wife's phone now they have it. They read line by line all chats on whatsapp...facebook...and messenger...not only with me but also whomever my wife has been chatting with me like with her friends and family and whoever. They called her mom in front of her and yelled at her mom by saying- "Are you not ashamed of letting your teen daughter to marry a guy who is same age of her father and who was previously married 3 times"...They were screaming on her. My mother-in-laws did not know about my age nor she knew of me being previously married 3 times...She got the shock of her life and fainted right there. My wife never told to anyone about my age because nobody in her circle will ever approve of all this and will never respect us and never treat us well...as per my wife, which is true though.

Just now my wife found out that two of her friends got a call from consular officers and they were asking all kinds of questions about my wife, about our relationship...and etc...One of her friends out of these two has finished her friendship with my wife by saying that my wife might have done something criminal which why those people were asking all those kinds of questions in a way as if my wife might have murdered someone...Same thing consular officers did with her mom...yelling at her. Do you think all these are right procedure? Many of her friends don't even know that we are married, but now they are everyone....There are some people who my wife's not in good terms with, so obviously they will say derogatory information. Now many people in my wife's circle came to know about my age and my previous marriages which made them to cut off all the ties with my wife...Everyone is treating my wife as if she did a big sin or a crime by marrying me...

====================================

Penguine:

Thanks for your reply, but the truth is the way my wife was treated during the interview does appear that they automatically considered our marriage to be a fraud and me being a monster. My wife was asked why I never have had children with any of these ex wives including with her....Why I got divorced with all these ex wives...She was told that I would leave her too as I left all other previous wives....They told my wife that I'm a fraud who has a plan to get her to US so that my wife would work and take care of me...They were all screaming on her in a sound-proof room...She was allowed to go to bathroom for 7 hours and no eating...They wanted her to accept that our marriage is a sham marriage. And all these were women, strangely.

You have said that getting an approval is difficult but not impossible, but I honestly don't know what I should do now to get an approval on her application. If I live together with her for an extended period then I might not be able to qualify to be a sponsor on I-864 being domiciled at abroad??

By the way, do you think its wrong or unethical or illegal to live together with my ex under one roof as room mates? My wife was told by consular officers that I might be sleeping with my ex wife for sure, which is why I am still living together with her...When I met my wife, I was 46 and she just turned 18..we got married after 4 months of talking to each other...she is now almost getting 20 and I'm 48...Marriage is going to be 2 years in two months. She was 18 when I met her. And we submitted only 4 pictures with I-130 but the interview my wife gave 20 more about us being together, but all those consular officers laughed and said that they don't want to accept selfie...They said that they need full shot with people in the background...They even asked my wife if we have had our honeymoon...etc..etc..etc..

========================================

To everyone,

I do know that there are many hurdles in my way based on my situation...but I would appreciate if you could offer me some feedback on how to move on from here than making judgmental opinions. I can not change the past, but I can try to change present and future. I would be very thankful if any info is provided on how to work on approval of current application now or on appeal...By the way, for my ex wife to have claimed me as a dependent on her tax returns despite being divorced is perfectly ok and legal. There is nothing wrong in that when it comes to IRS laws. Please do not pass judgement on me and my situation especially negative ones. We already have enough from consulars. I'm here for a help than learn people's personal moral opinions on my situation. However, I'm now kinda afraid that govt. might reopen my ex wife's case whom I live with now and whom I sponsored for green card and who is now a US citizen for the last 8 years. None of us ever have had any criminal or any kind of immigration fraud history in the record. I think they might think that I married my ex wife to give her a green card in exchange of living free or being taking care of by her which is why I'm still living with her...and now they might be thinking as if I might be going to do the same with current wife too...Oh God...don't know what to do now....Thank you all anyway..

Edited by Jaanu2017

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