K-1 Engagement proof included Fire ritual photos. Problem?

[junk 5]

Hi Folks,

 

We applied for a K-1 in October 2022, got the NOA1 and waiting for the NOA2. Back in August 2022, before applying for the K-1, we had an engagement ceremony with friends and family. We also had a small family gathering wherein we performed a Devi pooja (religious worhsip) involving a Fire ritual, to celebrate the engagement.

 

We had submitted ample photos from the engagement ceremony in our LOIs, as well as some photos of the Devi Puja (a celebratory religious worship) involving a fire ritual in one of the Supporting Affidavits from my family members, supporting our intent to marry, and clearly mentioning that it's photos just photos from a religious extension of the Engagement celebration. 

 

Read elsewhere on these forums that any inclusion of photos involving 'Fire rituals' within the engagement proof submitted as a part of the I-129F package have the potential to be misconstrued by the CO as an 'appearance' of an informal, unregistered 'Hindu' wedding, and can be used as grounds to deny the I-129F petition by the Consular Officer, under INA 214(b). 

 

Should I be concerned?

 

What can we do in terms of any additional proof/documents to carry to the interview, to assuage any concerns or misconstruals by the CO of the post-engagement Puja (celebratory worship service with a fire ritual) as a wedding, which it is actually NOT?

 

Thanks in anticipation of your thoughts/opinions!

Edited September 12, 2023 by jmayam

[Boiler 43,543]

The Consulate will be familiar with local practices and if this could be construed as too married.

[junk 5]

12 minutes ago, Boiler said:

The Consulate will be familiar with local practices and if this could be construed as too married.

 

Thanks for weighing in.

 

A detailed fire ritual and going around the fire 7 times uttering marriage vows is a central part of a Hindu wedding, which is typically performed at a temple/wedding hall. At the same time, every Puja/Homam (a casual religious worship) also has a fire ritual, and is typically performed at personal residences (although community level fire rituals are also performed at a Temple) 

 

In our case, we did nothing close to a wedding, except for the appearance of a 'fire pit' in one of the photos that we submitted of the Puja (religious worship celebrating the engagement), which was just attended by immediate family at a private residence.

 

In case of India, 'local' practices are too diverse and vary widely across cities, regions, etc. The K-1 consultate is in Mumbai, a Western Indian region, whereas my fiance hails from the Souther Indian region. Therein lies my worry of a misconstural by the CO of our casual, home Puja involving a fire ritual as having the appearance of a wedding, since both can involve a fire ritual.

Wonder if anyone with a deeper understanding of the Indian cultural nuances and/or any similar experiences with the Mumbai Consulate can comment/share their experience with similar nuances? 

Edited September 12, 2023 by jmayam

[Dashinka 23,274]

Not really much you can do about it at this point.  You can roll the dice and hopes the CO finds this a non issue, or you can get legally married and start the spousal visa process.  

 

Good Luck!

[Boiler 43,543]

It does beg the question why you did not complete the legalities and get married.

 

I am certainly aware to that there are many different customs in India even if I do not know the details. I am sure the Consulate do know the details.

[junk 5]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

It does beg the question why you did not complete the legalities and get married.

 

I am certainly aware to that there are many different customs in India even if I do not know the details. I am sure the Consulate do know the details.

 

The honest answer to that is that:

1. At the point when we applied, K-1 timeline estimate was around 12-14 months, and I-130/CR1 timeline estimate was around 18-22 months, and we wanted to have my fiance join me here and start living together ASAP, despite the obvious extra costs, extra hassles with AOS (in case of K-1) etc. 

2. We have extended family and close friends here in the USA, and we wanted a formal, grand wedding ceremony to happen here in their presence. Logisitcs for planning and organizing a grand wedding celebration back in India were too complicated for us (her Indian parents are in their late 70s, etc).

Not sure if #1 or #2, or both, would be the 'correct' answer if asked at the interview, or if we'd need to explain/defend our K-1 choice more strongly than that.

[junk 5]

24 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Not really much you can do about it at this point.  You can roll the dice and hopes the CO finds this a non issue, or you can get legally married and start the spousal visa process.  

 

Good Luck!

Thanks.

We are so close to the interview date (VJ NOA2 estimate is this October/November) that it does not make sense for us to cancel the K-1, meet again to get married, and start CR1.

My question was to see if anyone else had a similar situation/experience, and if so, what they may have done to prepare for the visa interview to dispel any potential misuderstanding of the CO, and/or to further clarify/defend to the CO that it was indeed just a religious engagement ceremony, and not a wedding.

[Boiler 43,543]

The Consulate will not question your choice

 

You are well into the K1 so just go with and be prepared to explain any aspects.

[JeanneAdil 6,209]

From the Hindu Marriage Act of 1955

 

https://highcourtchd.gov.in/hclscc/subpages/pdf_files/4.pdf

 

(2) Where such rites and ceremonies include the Saptapadi (that is, the taking of seven steps by the bridegroom and the bride jointly before the sacred fire), the marriage becomes complete and binding when the seventh step is taken.

 

The 7th step is . The seventh step is to remain true companions and only committed to one another.

 

Sounds like CO may consider "too married for a K1 visa"

[beloved_dingo 1,934]

You are far enough along in the process that I would wait and see what happens. Best case scenario is that the CO doesn't question it and you get an approval with no problem. Worst case scenario is the CO thinks you are married already and not eligible for K1. If that happens, you'd have to marry and start over with the CR-1. 

 

Were there photos of rings being exchanged? And did any photos depict clothing that is typical at a wedding?

[Mike E 11,723]

Scrub social media of these photos now.

 

Even if the CO issues the K-1; final determination is made at the port of entry.

[junk 5]

3 hours ago, JeanneAdil said:

From the Hindu Marriage Act of 1955

 

https://highcourtchd.gov.in/hclscc/subpages/pdf_files/4.pdf

 

(2) Where such rites and ceremonies include the Saptapadi (that is, the taking of seven steps by the bridegroom and the bride jointly before the sacred fire), the marriage becomes complete and binding when the seventh step is taken.

 

The 7th step is . The seventh step is to remain true companions and only committed to one another.

 

Sounds like CO may consider "too married for a K1 visa"

 

Thanks for weighing in.

 

I hope I was clear enough that we DID NOT take the seven steps around the fire, or anything close to it.

 

My detailed reference to the 7 steps above was precisely to draw a clear distinction between a typical wedding ceremony vs. what we did, which was a regular 'havan' which is a fire worship that's performed with any religious worship, as a part of the religiously celebrating our Western-style engagement.

 

In our affidavits, we enclosed detailed photographs and narratives about both our 'Engagement' wherein we exchanged rings in Western style. In one of the supporting affidavits by one of our relatives, they have included photos of the religious fire worship 'Devi Puja' performed at their residence to celebrate our Engagement religiously per Hindu tradition, and they detailed it as such (as a religious engagement celebration) in their affidavit.  

[junk 5]

2 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

You are far enough along in the process that I would wait and see what happens. Best case scenario is that the CO doesn't question it and you get an approval with no problem. Worst case scenario is the CO thinks you are married already and not eligible for K1. If that happens, you'd have to marry and start over with the CR-1. 

 

Were there photos of rings being exchanged? And did any photos depict clothing that is typical at a wedding?

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, we had included photos of a typical 'kneel down' proposal, ring exchange, and engagement celebration with friends and family in our LOIs.

Photos in our LOIs depict traditional dress that's typical at an Engagement ceremony, not at a wedding. 

Photos enclosed by one of our relatives in their supporting Affidavit include photos of a fire worship (and us in traditional Puja worship clothes), performed in a different city 4-5 days after our Engagement, with clear write up in the Supporting Affidavit by the relative that it's a religious celebration of our Engagement, since her parents were not able to attend our Western style Engagement that we had with friends and family in another city.

Edited September 13, 2023 by jmayam

[junk 5]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Scrub social media of these photos now.

 

Even if the CO issues the K-1; final determination is made at the port of entry.

 

Thanks. There are NO social media posts with those photos, since they were just photos taken by one of our relatives at the Puja (a religious worship) at their residence, and hence were on their phones - they just included those photos on their supporting affidavit.

Edited September 13, 2023 by jmayam

[Mike E 11,723]

3 minutes ago, jmayam said:

and hence were on their phones

Assuming they are like me and do not post photos to social media, that’s good.