May 24, 2022 -- Deadly shooting at Texas elementary school

[Dashinka 23,399]

Just now, B_J said:

Yes, definitely yes.

 

In my opinion, I don't think these kids just wake up one morning and they're this far gone.  I also don't think they are born this way.  I think it is a process that can possibly be intercepted and changed.

 

Also, talking to a kid in school, giving him counseling and support, is different than outside of school.  It won't be the cure all for every kid but I think it could help a lot.

The recent Michigan case was a great example.  Many examples of this kid being dysfunctional, then a major stressor when his best friend moved away, but the access to mental care was left up to the parents.  Now I am not saying the parents should not be involved, but obviously it seems the officials involved and the parents did not think it was an eminent issue.  If there was onsite access to a mental health professional, the event may have been avoided.

[Kai G. Llewellyn 829]

4 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

I think it could have an impact...many people have stories about how they were headed down the wrong path until someone realized they were suffering/reached out to try and connect. Sometimes that makes all the difference. But it certainly isn't a solution, just a small thing that could mitigate these outcomes.

 

Also another thought/question...websites like 4chan continually come up in these situations, and contribute to these young men being radicalized. Is there any way to deal with that problem? I don't think this issue has a single thing to do with video games and a lot more to do with these darker corners of the internet + the desire for notoriety on social media.

You are absolutely right that there are some very very dark corners of the internet. There's some really messed up stuff out there. Unfortunately, there is an onus on parents to guide their kids not to go near that stuff, educate the dangers in schools, use webfilters at home, and have an easy way for parents to block sites on their kids phones. Educate people of these options and how to do it.

 

4chan is a goshdarn mess, couple of others come to mind too, Kiwifarms is another. There's just a lot of places out there that encourage people to be their worst selves.

[B_J 2,752]

1 minute ago, Dashinka said:

The recent Michigan case was a great example.  Many examples of this kid being dysfunctional, then a major stressor when his best friend moved away, but the access to mental care was left up to the parents.  Now I am not saying the parents should not be involved, but obviously it seems the officials involved and the parents did not think it was an eminent issue.  If there was onsite access to a mental health professional, the event may have been avoided.

There are so many things a kid will tell adults at school that they won't tell adults outside of school.  Of course, this is only really true if there is an element of trust already established.  But if there was a kid dealing with some issues, imo, he'd be much more likely to talk to a psychologist at school than one his parents took him to.  

[Crazy Cat 39,747]

Just now, Kai G. Llewellyn said:

What would you reckon would be the percentages of youth that do want help? It can't be insignificant, and if those people are helped, we may prevent a future tragedy like this.

From my personal experience....I don't recall a single adolescent who wanted to be in the Psych hospital....not a single one.....YMMV.    However, these are two most memorable events from my career as a Psych Nurse:

 

1.  At least 5 or 6 years after practicing in an Adolescent Psych ward, I was approached by a young man at a movie theater.  He said :Are you Mr. Baker who was a Nurse at Pinnacle Point Hospital?  I said "Yes, I am".  He said, "Mr. Baker, I am Charles XXX.  I was a patient there.  I want you to know that you helped me, and now I have graduated from high school, and I am doing well".

I cried when he told me that.  This young man was one of those adolescents who didn't want to be in the hospital.  

 

2.  As a Psych Nurse in an adult Psych unit, I had an adult patient who refused to talk to anyone.  He was suicidal and extremely depressed.  His spouse had left him, and even laughed in his face.  Day after day, I tried to let him know that we wanted to help him.  Several months after he was discharged, I encountered him at the business office of that same hospital.  He said "You are Mr. Baker, aren't you?"  I said "yes, I am".  He then said "I want you to know that I am doing well.  You were the ONLY person who got through to me during therapy."  He then said " I have decided to go to school.  I want to be a Psych Nurse, just like you"!!!   I think that was the most rewarding moment in my Psych career......

 

My point is that therapy sometimes helps those who want to be helped as well as those who don't initially want help.  

[Kai G. Llewellyn 829]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

From my personal experience....I don't recall a single adolescent who wanted to be in the Psych hospital....not a single one.....YMMV.    However, these are two most memorable events from my career as a Psych Nurse:

 

1.  At least 5 or 6 years after practicing in an Adolescent Psych ward, I was approached by a young man at a movie theater.  He said :Are you Mr. Baker who was a Nurse at Pinnacle Point Hospital?  I said "Yes, I am".  He said, "Mr. Baker, I am Charles XXX.  I was a patient there.  I want you to know that you helped me, and now I have graduated from high school, and I am doing well".

I cried when he told me that.  This young man was one of those adolescents who didn't want to be in the hospital.  

 

2.  As a Psych Nurse in an adult Psych unit, I had an adult patient who refused to talk to anyone.  He was suicidal and extremely depressed.  His spouse had left him, and even laughed in his face.  Day after day, I tried to let him know that we wanted to help him.  Several months after he was discharged, I encountered him at the business office of that same hospital.  He said "You are Mr. Baker, aren't you?"  I said "yes, I am".  He then said "I want you to know that I am doing well.  You were the ONLY person who got through to me during therapy."  He then said " I have decided to go to school.  I want to be a Psych Nurse, just like you"!!!   I think that was the most rewarding moment in my Psych career......

 

My point is that therapy sometimes helps those who want to be helped as well as those who don't initially want help.  

Honestly, I can get that adolescents will have issues with a hospital. People that age don't want to be in a hospital, hell I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in a psych hospital. Thanks to media portrayals and well, history, they are quite frankly terrifying. People who have gotten to the point of being in a hospital are at the point of crisis.

 

I'm talking about early intervention. We need to stop people getting to that crisis point to begin with. I absolutely don't dispute the help that hospitals can provide, but ideally we wouldn't be having people getting to that point. Non-crisis mental healthcare is sorely lacking.

 

I'd take BC for example, Provincial Healthcare for mental health is virtually nonexistent until you get detained under the Mental Health Act, because you're deemed dangerous to yourself and others, only THEN do you get help. It's like we're dealing with car crashes, but not preventing them from happening. One shouldn't be at the point of near suicide before they get help, it's almost too late at that point. And I get, you can't prevent car crashes, but you can do various things to make them happen less frequently. Same goes for mental health.

 

Another poster is right, you generally don't wake up with massive mental health issues one day, or are born with it. These things are gradual, the fall into mental health issues is a process, and not the event, and the earlier you're able to help people in that process, the better.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Kai G. Llewellyn

[beloved_dingo 1,941]

6 minutes ago, B_J said:

There are so many things a kid will tell adults at school that they won't tell adults outside of school.  Of course, this is only really true if there is an element of trust already established.  But if there was a kid dealing with some issues, imo, he'd be much more likely to talk to a psychologist at school than one his parents took him to.  

Especially if the parents are part of the problem. And even good parents often unintentionally do things that alienate their kids or break their trust. 

[Crazy Cat 39,747]

Just now, Kai G. Llewellyn said:

People that age don't want to be in a hospital, hell I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in a psych hospital.

Yep....mental health help is difficult to accept.  It is seen as a weakness. ....yet, most people wouldn't stigmatize someone who received help for a broken arm.....

[B_J 2,752]

4 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

Especially if the parents are part of the problem. And even good parents often unintentionally do things that alienate their kids or break their trust. 

And if the parents took the kid to the psychologist, the kid will always think that anything he says will get back to the parents.  But he might trust the school psychologist more because the parents weren't involved.

 

If we could just do something for these kids before they reach that breaking point it would make such a difference.

Edited May 27, 2022 by B_J

[Boiler 43,791]

We have confirmation that the Police waited an hour, they described it as a containment despite Dispatch knowing there were still people in there.

 

Having been reading some coverage in the MSM I wonder if they realise that the message is that you can not rely on the Police, you are on your own. 
 

There is a video doing the rounds of an incident on the NY Subway, basically a woman being attacked and every one else watching. 
 

I do not see anything changing, you just have to respond to actual circumstances 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Boiler

[Mike E 11,727]

4 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

And yet not old enough to drink or rent a car. Personally I don't think 18 year-olds should be cannon fodder either. 

I know of no  law that says 18 year olds cannot rent a car. 
 

Access to alcohol is a  head scratcher. Still I don’t see though how denying access to a vice threatens the lives of drinkers 18-20.  
 

Whereas people who are aged 18 should have as much right to protection as people who are 81.  
 

Looking at https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/mass-shootings.html its seems about 200 people a year due in mass shirtings. 
 

So in 70 years, 14,000 killings by people across all ages.  Versus 18,000 draftees killed in Vietnam. I can’t find definitive numbers on draftees in Korean War., but given bubblers drafted and the numbers died, 10,000 seems like a reasonable floor. So at 28,000 draftees dead, instead of putting energy into virtue signaling restrictions on guns that won’t actually move the needle, can the draft for any conflict where Congress has not made a formal declaration of war.  That will have a material impact on mass gun deaths, since war is by definition mass death.  

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Mike E

[Boiler 43,791]

I started going into pubs when I was 16

 

You can have gender affirmative care at any age but theoretically a beer you have to be 21, that I do not compute 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,335]

7 hours ago, MarJhi said:

I'll look into it. Essentially I started using what she was using to communicate when we first met. I think most Filipinos use Messenger

Elon Musk even praised signal the other day.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,335]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

I know of no  law that says 18 year olds cannot rent a car. 
 

Access to alcohol is a  head scratcher. Still I don’t see though how denying access to a vice threatens the lives of drinkers 18-20.  
 

Whereas people who are aged 18 should have as much right to protection as people who are 81.  
 

Looking at https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/mass-shootings.html its seems about 200 people a year due in mass shirtings. 
 

So in 70 years, 14,000 killings by people across all ages.  Versus 18,000 draftees killed in Vietnam. I can’t find definitive numbers on draftees in Korean War., but given bubblers drafted and the numbers died, 10,000 seems like a reasonable floor. So at 28,000 draftees dead, instead of putting energy into virtue signaling restrictions on guns that won’t actually move the needle, can the draft for any conflict where Congress has not made a formal declaration of war.  That will have a material impact on mass gun deaths, since war is by definition mass death.  

 

Persons under the age of 18 cannot enter into a legal contract in most states, hence can't rent cars.

[MarJhi 925]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Elon Musk even praised signal the other day.

I feel like that guy might be pretty smart.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,335]

One of the best things I learned in my computer engineering classes, was ask. What has changed since it worked. 

 

In the 70s we had no mental health care, no school police or guards, most students had access to guns many with guns in their cars. Yet we never had school violence other than a little fist fight on occasion. 

What changed?