DV 2022 Married but no Marriage/Birth Certs

[igrant 28]

Hello,

 

One of my relatives was selected for DV 2022 and the only issue we are concerned about her and her family is their marriage certificate and child's birth certificate. The couple was married a few years back and they have a toddler, however they never applied for marriage certificate and child birth certificate. They had wedding and everything but no legal documents to this day. When they filled their dv-2022 application they had registered themselves as married couple. Now, the question is, if they will go ahead and receive their marriage and child's birth certificates, would this have a negative impact on qualifying to their visas as a married couple or it is not going to affect in any way during interview? If it won't effect negatively then is there a chance the KCC/embassy may ask for parental blood test results for the child and/or affidavits from relatives confirming their marriage is genuine? Please kindly share/advise if anyone has a knowledge/experience about this kind of situation.  FYI, DS-260 hasn't submitted yet. Thank you!

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

They are going to need some sort of proof that they were married - either stating you are single when you are married, or that you are married when you are not, is grounds for disqualification.  The birth certificate is not a problem to be issued late, many are, but the marriage certificate is going to have to reflect a date before they entered DV to be accepted.

 

And yes it’s possible that they may ask for other proof or DNA about the birth if the birth certificate is issued more than a year after birth, but it depends on each situation, it’s not always asked for.

[igrant 28]

16 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

They are going to need some sort of proof that they were married - either stating you are single when you are married, or that you are married when you are not, is grounds for disqualification.  The birth certificate is not a problem to be issued late, many are, but the marriage certificate is going to have to reflect a date before they entered DV to be accepted.

 

And yes it’s possible that they may ask for other proof or DNA about the birth if the birth certificate is issued more than a year after birth, but it depends on each situation, it’s not always asked for.

Ok, if the marriage certificate issue date is, lets say May 1, 2021, but the couple was traditionally (and religiously) married a few ears back and the DV submission last year was entered as married, would that be the grounds for disqualification?

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

1 hour ago, igrant said:

Ok, if the marriage certificate issue date is, lets say May 1, 2021, but the couple was traditionally (and religiously) married a few ears back and the DV submission last year was entered as married, would that be the grounds for disqualification?

Well, it’s not the issue date of the certificate that’s important but what it states the date of the marriage was.  Does the church (or whatever religious institution they married in) have records of the wedding date?

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[aaron2020 11,651]

If they were not legally married when they filed for the DV-2022, then they are disqualified.  Getting a marriage certificate that is dated after they filed for the DV-2020 will not work.  

[Strawberrymermaid 346]

10 hours ago, igrant said:

Hello,

 

One of my relatives was selected for DV 2022 and the only issue we are concerned about her and her family is their marriage certificate and child's birth certificate. The couple was married a few years back and they have a toddler, however they never applied for marriage certificate and child birth certificate. They had wedding and everything but no legal documents to this day. When they filled their dv-2022 application they had registered themselves as married couple. Now, the question is, if they will go ahead and receive their marriage and child's birth certificates, would this have a negative impact on qualifying to their visas as a married couple or it is not going to affect in any way during interview? If it won't effect negatively then is there a chance the KCC/embassy may ask for parental blood test results for the child and/or affidavits from relatives confirming their marriage is genuine? Please kindly share/advise if anyone has a knowledge/experience about this kind of situation.  FYI, DS-260 hasn't submitted yet. Thank you!

If they were only symbolically married and not legally married, they are not married so they cannot list themselves as married. 

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

There are definitely countries in Africa where they accept the traditional/religious wedding date as the marriage date for DV purposes. I am not sure how that works in Russia with religious weddings vs legal weddings. It’s not clear to me what the legal situation is, after all they don’t have a birth certificate but they clearly have a child, so not getting a certificate doesn’t automatically mean something didn’t happen. If they had gotten a marriage certificate at the time would they have needed to do anything else legally to be married?

[Strawberrymermaid 346]

13 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

There are definitely countries in Africa where they accept the traditional/religious wedding date as the marriage date for DV purposes. I am not sure how that works in Russia with religious weddings vs legal weddings. It’s not clear to me what the legal situation is, after all they don’t have a birth certificate but they clearly have a child, so not getting a certificate doesn’t automatically mean something didn’t happen. If they had gotten a marriage certificate at the time would they have needed to do anything else legally to be married?

Although I've not dealt with this direct instance myself, Russia is huge on appropriate paperwork and everything must be signed, stamped, translated, etc properly. Its a headache to do anything that involves paperwork there. Maybe some else can chime in but I don't see how they wouldn't be strict on a legal marriage certificate with the correct day. 😕  To even get married there you must do a lot of steps to prove you are who you say you are, get permissions from ZAGS, etc. Russia also uses internal passports as ID, and if you are married you must register that marriage and get special stamps with all the info.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Strawberrymermaid

[millefleur 5,035]

11 hours ago, igrant said:

Ok, if the marriage certificate issue date is, lets say May 1, 2021, but the couple was traditionally (and religiously) married a few ears back and the DV submission last year was entered as married, would that be the grounds for disqualification?

My understanding is the Russian government would not consider you legally married until you got the marriage certificate from ZAGS.

 

I'm not sure how the US side will handle it. If you look on the document reciprocity guide that the Dept of State maintains, they also mention the certificate form ZAGS as proof. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/RussianFederation.html

 

You will probably need to contact the Embassy directly to get clarification on this matter.

[igrant 28]

11 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Well, it’s not the issue date of the certificate that’s important but what it states the date of the marriage was.  Does the church (or whatever religious institution they married in) have records of the wedding date?

 

 

 

Ok, if the date of marriage is all it matters, not the date of issuance, then that is good. They are from Kazakhstan and are Muslim. What is more important about marriage there is the religions marriage (an imam recites prayers) and traditional marriage (wedding ceremony). Unfortunately no legal papers. The only proof they have are photos and videos about their wedding.

10 hours ago, aaron2020 said:

If they were not legally married when they filed for the DV-2022, then they are disqualified.  Getting a marriage certificate that is dated after they filed for the DV-2020 will not work.  

Ok, that sounds scary

 

3 hours ago, Strawberrymermaid said:

If they were only symbolically married and not legally married, they are not married so they cannot list themselves as married. 

Yes, symbolically and physically married.

2 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

There are definitely countries in Africa where they accept the traditional/religious wedding date as the marriage date for DV purposes. I am not sure how that works in Russia with religious weddings vs legal weddings. It’s not clear to me what the legal situation is, after all they don’t have a birth certificate but they clearly have a child, so not getting a certificate doesn’t automatically mean something didn’t happen. If they had gotten a marriage certificate at the time would they have needed to do anything else legally to be married?

Unfortunately the official religious person (imam) doesn't provide papers when they perform marriage prayers for couples. 

2 hours ago, Strawberrymermaid said:

Although I've not dealt with this direct instance myself, Russia is huge on appropriate paperwork and everything must be signed, stamped, translated, etc properly. Its a headache to do anything that involves paperwork there. Maybe some else can chime in but I don't see how they wouldn't be strict on a legal marriage certificate with the correct day. 😕  To even get married there you must do a lot of steps to prove you are who you say you are, get permissions from ZAGS, etc. Russia also uses internal passports as ID, and if you are married you must register that marriage and get special stamps with all the info.

Yes, I agree. Getting documents there are lot more hassle there than it is here in the US.

1 hour ago, millefleur said:

My understanding is the Russian government would not consider you legally married until you got the marriage certificate from ZAGS.

 

I'm not sure how the US side will handle it. If you look on the document reciprocity guide that the Dept of State maintains, they also mention the certificate form ZAGS as proof. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/RussianFederation.html

 

You will probably need to contact the Embassy directly to get clarification on this matter.

I am not sure about the exact rules in Russia nowadays. I was only familiar with the soviet era rules. In Kazakhstan, and in all of the Central Asian countries, there are lot of people without marriage certificate and like I mentioned above, the more important thing for them is the nikkah portion of the marriage.

[millefleur 5,035]

1 hour ago, igrant said:

Ok, if the date of marriage is all it matters, not the date of issuance, then that is good. They are from Kazakhstan and are Muslim. What is more important about marriage there is the religions marriage (an imam recites prayers) and traditional marriage (wedding ceremony). Unfortunately no legal papers. The only proof they have are photos and videos about their wedding.

Oh sorry I didn't realize it was Kazakhstan. I just assumed Russia based on your profile. There could be totally different rules there, but you can check on that link I provided above and just change it to Kazakhstan to see the marriage documents they'll accept.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

I’m confused. Are they from Russia or from Kazakhstan? If Kazakhstan..l don’t know if what they have is enough. This is what DoS wants. Is this what they are going to get, with the original marriage date listed?

 

Marriage Certificates

Available

Fees: $7 USD

Document Name: Marriage Certificate

Issuing Authority: Ministry of Justice

Special Seal(s) / Color / Format: Blue, hard cover

Issuing Authority Personnel Title: Ministry of Justice

Registration Criteria: The marriage should take place within one month after the application is submitted.   

Procedure for Obtaining: Applications can be submitted either online at egov.kz or at the Public Service Centers. Documents needed are the following: application, national identity documents for both parties, and proof of fee payment. Foreign citizens also need to provide: a certificate on marriageability, a permanent residence card, or any document allowing the applicant to reside in the country.

Certified Copies Available: Any public notary can make a certified copy.

Alternate Documents: There are no alternate documents.

Exceptions: None

Comments: None

[Calicolom 265]

1 hour ago, igrant said:

Ok, if the date of marriage is all it matters, not the date of issuance, then that is good. They are from Kazakhstan and are Muslim. What is more important about marriage there is the religions marriage (an imam recites prayers) and traditional marriage (wedding ceremony). Unfortunately no legal papers. The only proof they have are photos and videos about their wedding.

Ok, that sounds scary

 

Yes, symbolically and physically married.

Unfortunately the official religious person (imam) doesn't provide papers when they perform marriage prayers for couples. 

Yes, I agree. Getting documents there are lot more hassle there than it is here in the US.

I am not sure about the exact rules in Russia nowadays. I was only familiar with the soviet era rules. In Kazakhstan, and in all of the Central Asian countries, there are lot of people without marriage certificate and like I mentioned above, the more important thing for them is the nikkah portion of the marriage.

It is the case in Mexico and SA country's everyone says, Husband and Wife, but no paper work.   

[arken 4,197]

In several countries, people get married over traditional wedding ceremony and they may never register their marriage until it's needed somewhere. Same way, they may not register child's birth. So i believe late issue of such certificates should not be the issue as long as those certificate mention the correct date of marriage or birth. You may be required to provide additional evidences due to late registration/issue. So make sure you have any evidences ready like affidavits, or any other paperwork that supports those marriage or birth.