BAD NEWS

[Thomianguy 36]

Hi guys, my wife just came back from her Citizenship hearing and after all the smooth sailing we have had from visa process to now, we finally hit a "determination" wall. 

My wife was arrested a few years back because my daughter (her estranged step-daughter) called the cops on her and fabricated a domestic violence case against her. The fight was actually between my daughters and my wife was breaking them up. That one daughter (she has progressive mental illness) went to the precinct and said my wife scratched her and the next thing you know, cops were at the door arresting my wife who spent a night in jail. This is a woman from a upper class family in her country, highly college educated, never seen a jail before so you must know the embarrassment I feel.

Anyway, the case was never prosecuted and it was thrown out AND sealed and we got a disposition stating such, which my wife has used to travel in and out of the U.S 6 times already. We also submitted the ORIGINAL of that disposition with the paperwork, admitting to the arrest by showing proof of the outcome.

Well today, we must have gotten a special officer because he sees the admission of arrest AND the disposition, but he wanted more - he wanted the actual arrest report, partially denied her ("could not make a determination at the moment") and sent her home, telling her to wait for documentation from him on how to submit that.

The arrest happened in New York and we moved to Florida 3 months ago and now it has been HELL trying to get in touch with a competent person in New York to help with this. In fact, all we are getting are voicemails, dead ends and transfers to dead ends. Lawyers are charing $1,500 for the attempt to get it when I've done multiple paperwork for individuals and can do it in my sleep for me to need a lawyer.

The bright side is, he actually signed off on everything telling because she passed everything else with ease, but he cannot yet set a swear in date because he wants THAT arrest record.

Thoughts/advice?  

 

[Boiler 45,655]

It is what I would expect, they need to dot i's and cross t's.

[Thomianguy 36]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

It is what I would expect, they need to dot i's and cross t's.

Hmm...

On their application it asks if you were arrested to which the answer was "yes." Then, if I recall, they just asked for documentation showing the outcome, NOT documentation about the arrest itself because the disposition states the reason. He did not even ask because he doubted her, he asked because he implied, he wanted to make sure she was not lying which is weird because people would be more inclined to lie about NOT being arrested.

[millefleur 5,047]

23 minutes ago, Thomianguy said:

Lawyers are charing $1,500 for the attempt to get it when I've done multiple paperwork for individuals and can do it in my sleep for me to need a lawyer.

I hate to say it but that's honestly not even that bad as far as lawyers go. Some lawyers won't even talk to you for less than $3k-$6k upfront. Unless you can find someone in NY to get all the necessary papers, or maybe considering taking a trip there yourself to collect them, then just go with the lawyer. If they're demanding it, you have to provide it...really no other way around it.

[Boiler 45,655]

2 minutes ago, millefleur said:

I hate to say it but that's honestly not even that bad as far as lawyers go. Some lawyers won't even talk to you for less than $3k-$6k upfront. Unless you can find someone in NY to get all the necessary papers, or maybe considering taking a trip there yourself to collect them, then just go with the lawyer. If they're demanding it, you have to provide it...really no other way around it.

That will be difficult, travelling to NY is very limited due to Covid.

[Thomianguy 36]

UPDATE: We tracked down the lawyer who represented my wife for her release and it seems he MIGHT be able to get a copy of that arrest record to my wife upon her proving she is who she is. Keeping our fingers crossed.

  

[Boiler 45,655]

Excellent!

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

Could not make a determination means they need to investigate it further - that’s all. He felt he needed more information. People get this even without any arrests etc, sometimes just so a supervisor can look over the case. It just sounds like he needs to check a box or two before he can officially approve the case.

 

By the way, being upper class and college educated does not prevent people from instigating domestic violence. (I have to say I found that sentence in your post quite strange.) I hope both that your wife gets her citizenship and that you manage to repair the relationship with your daughter, especially if she has a mental illness that needs to be treated. Good luck.

[Fahad86 113]

2 hours ago, Thomianguy said:

Hi guys, my wife just came back from her Citizenship hearing and after all the smooth sailing we have had from visa process to now, we finally hit a "determination" wall. 

My wife was arrested a few years back because my daughter (her estranged step-daughter) called the cops on her and fabricated a domestic violence case against her. The fight was actually between my daughters and my wife was breaking them up. That one daughter (she has progressive mental illness) went to the precinct and said my wife scratched her and the next thing you know, cops were at the door arresting my wife who spent a night in jail. This is a woman from a upper class family in her country, highly college educated, never seen a jail before so you must know the embarrassment I feel.

Anyway, the case was never prosecuted and it was thrown out AND sealed and we got a disposition stating such, which my wife has used to travel in and out of the U.S 6 times already. We also submitted the ORIGINAL of that disposition with the paperwork, admitting to the arrest by showing proof of the outcome.

Well today, we must have gotten a special officer because he sees the admission of arrest AND the disposition, but he wanted more - he wanted the actual arrest report, partially denied her ("could not make a determination at the moment") and sent her home, telling her to wait for documentation from him on how to submit that.

The arrest happened in New York and we moved to Florida 3 months ago and now it has been HELL trying to get in touch with a competent person in New York to help with this. In fact, all we are getting are voicemails, dead ends and transfers to dead ends. Lawyers are charing $1,500 for the attempt to get it when I've done multiple paperwork for individuals and can do it in my sleep for me to need a lawyer.

The bright side is, he actually signed off on everything telling because she passed everything else with ease, but he cannot yet set a swear in date because he wants THAT arrest record.

Thoughts/advice?  

 

well i know the case was dismissed but how long ago did this happen? if its in the statutory period the officer has discretion to approve or deny the application. Most of the time if the case was dismissed the interviewing officer need police report for the incident. I hope its a approval for your wife.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Fahad86

[Thomianguy 36]

2 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Could not make a determination means they need to investigate it further - that’s all. He felt he needed more information. People get this even without any arrests etc, sometimes just so a supervisor can look over the case. It just sounds like he needs to check a box or two before he can officially approve the case.

 

By the way, being upper class and college educated does not prevent people from instigating domestic violence. (I have to say I found that sentence in your post quite strange.) I hope both that your wife gets her citizenship and that you manage to repair the relationship with your daughter, especially if she has a mental illness that needs to be treated. Good luck.

I added that part NOT to say that educated, middle and upper class cannot be violent (I know better), but to point out that she has never seen the inside of a jail and her family's status in her country would see her being in a foreign jail as unthinkable. Of course, for me, it was highly embarrassing as it was for her family to have found out as I felt embarrassed to know she had to endure such humiliation because of my daughter.  

Thank you for your well wishes and my daughter has spiraled even more out of control, but she is on her own but wrecking lives all over the place. It's been a massive undertaking reigning her in and it hurts, but in relation to this status, the officer knows none of this to make good judgment and just sees and arrest. AS my wife pointed out, if the case was dismissed, how and when can she prove to an immigration officer what a judge ruled on other than through a piece of paper that provides no detail to the nature of what really happened? The interesting thing is, now that I think of it, we not only submitted the disposition; we also submitted a letter of explanation  to do just that so that they would have some context. Apparently, that may not have been enough or maybe in the long run, it may.

I forgot to mention that this situation happened way back in early 2016. It was not recent. Since then, we have had a baby, a rather blissful marriage, been to Guyana 2 times and the Virgin Islands (where I am from), 4 times, moved to a house in Florida and building a business together. Very productive marriage life. 

[Thomianguy 36]

2 hours ago, Fahad86 said:

well i know the case was dismissed but how long ago did this happen? if its in the statutory period the officer has discretion to approve or deny the application. Most of the time if the case was dismissed the interviewing officer need police report for the incident. I hope its a approval for your wife.

Thank you. 

This was in early 2016. 

[SalishSea 17,916]

6 hours ago, Thomianguy said:

Hi guys, my wife just came back from her Citizenship hearing and after all the smooth sailing we have had from visa process to now, we finally hit a "determination" wall. 

My wife was arrested a few years back because my daughter (her estranged step-daughter) called the cops on her and fabricated a domestic violence case against her. The fight was actually between my daughters and my wife was breaking them up. That one daughter (she has progressive mental illness) went to the precinct and said my wife scratched her and the next thing you know, cops were at the door arresting my wife who spent a night in jail. This is a woman from a upper class family in her country, highly college educated, never seen a jail before so you must know the embarrassment I feel.

Anyway, the case was never prosecuted and it was thrown out AND sealed and we got a disposition stating such, which my wife has used to travel in and out of the U.S 6 times already. We also submitted the ORIGINAL of that disposition with the paperwork, admitting to the arrest by showing proof of the outcome.

Well today, we must have gotten a special officer because he sees the admission of arrest AND the disposition, but he wanted more - he wanted the actual arrest report, partially denied her ("could not make a determination at the moment") and sent her home, telling her to wait for documentation from him on how to submit that.

The arrest happened in New York and we moved to Florida 3 months ago and now it has been HELL trying to get in touch with a competent person in New York to help with this. In fact, all we are getting are voicemails, dead ends and transfers to dead ends. Lawyers are charing $1,500 for the attempt to get it when I've done multiple paperwork for individuals and can do it in my sleep for me to need a lawyer.

The bright side is, he actually signed off on everything telling because she passed everything else with ease, but he cannot yet set a swear in date because he wants THAT arrest record.

Thoughts/advice?  

 

I'm confused - you're surprised that they want a copy of the arrest record?

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

38 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

I'm confused - you're surprised that they want a copy of the arrest record?

Oh good point. The n400 instructions do say it must be brought.

 

G. Arrests/Convictions. If you have ever been arrested or detained anywhere in the world, by any law enforcement officer, for any reason, and no charges were filed, bring:
(1) An original or court-certified arrest report; and
(2) An official, certified statement from the arresting agency or applicable court confirming that no charges were filed.
If you have ever been arrested or detained anywhere in the world, by any law enforcement officer, for any reason, and charges were filed, bring:
(1) Certified photocopies of all arrest reports, charging documents, court dispositions, sentencing reports, and any other relevant documents.
(2) You may include any additional evidence in your favor concerning the circumstances of your arrests or convictions that you would like USCIS to consider.
(3) If you were placed on probation, you must provide evidence to show that you completed your probationary sentence.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[Thomianguy 36]

44 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

I'm confused - you're surprised that they want a copy of the arrest record?

Yes, I am, but I see that SusieQQQ included a some information that shows I made a HUGE oversight. I saw that portion on the documents, but I completely missed the part where they ALSO wanted the arrest report. I think my mind went ahead of me thinking they want you to be honest and ADMIT that you were arrested (hence the question), but PROVIDE proof of the outcome. It only seemed logical to me, but I now see I completely gaffed on that.

Forgive me for this status. I see my mind just got ahead of me and I find it rather curious they never sent back a request for MORE information, rather than wait for the interview to do this.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

19 minutes ago, Thomianguy said:

Forgive me for this status. I see my mind just got ahead of me and I find it rather curious they never sent back a request for MORE information, rather than wait for the interview to do this.

That bit is easy to answer - they expect most documents to be brought to interview rather than submitted in advance.  It is listed under “Below is a list of documents to bring with you to your Form N-400 interview”. Very few documents need to be submitted with the actual application, so no need for RFE.