Border entry with Thai national wife on B1/B2 visa

[milktea 0]

We were married almost four years ago in Thailand; I've been living here more than nine years.  Thai wife has an existing B1/B2 tourist visa valid for another 7 years; she's used it once for a late 2017 to mid-2018 stay  in America to be with my terminally ill father and we came back to Thailand  together before her six months was up.

Now I need to return to America within the next couple weeks because I can't renew my yearly Thai visa here due to COVID restrictions (long story) and need to seek out more profitable employment than what's available or indeed even legal for a foreigner in Thailand.  

During these incredibly uncertain times with ever-shifting entry regulations and economic/employment uncertainties around the world,  it's really really important for us to be able to stay together as things unfold; once separated, it could be very hard to get back together again in a COVID world.  After due research, our plan thus far to been to travel together to the US at the end of this month on her tourist visa, stay with my parents, have me find a job, and see how things unfold, both in the US and Thailand, both economically and COVID-wise, but also with how we adapt to American living after so long abroad.  To this end, we will be keeping a lease on a house with our stuff in it here in Thailand, both 1) to show connection to Thailand, and 2) so that she (or we) can return with a minimum of hassle if we need to or things don't work out--for whatever reason--in the USA. 

If things go well, (i.e. I get a job and it looks like we can adapt to COVID-era USA living and want to be in it for the longer haul), we could apply for a Change of Status and start her green card process.  If not, either she or we will come back and figure something out.

Increasingly, she's been reading accounts on Facebook groups from Thai people with tourist visas have been being denied entry to the US at extremely high rates recently, including one woman who was warned by a well-meaning airline staff in Thailand to not board her flight with horror stories of rampant denied entry, including the mention that some have had their tourist visas supposedly canceled on the spot by CBP.  I've told my wife that their situation is not the same as ours, and that it might be overblown, but it still gives us serious pause for thought.

 

1.  Does anyone know of anything like this happening currently or any other CBP entry trends I should know about?  Can anyone corroborate this?  If so, is it a recent CBP thing, or a Thai citizen thing, or what?

 

2.  We think it would be especially wise to travel with a return ticket for her, even though it's "usually" not asked for by border officials.  Nothing usual about the current times, I say.  Does anyone have any advice or info on this, including whether or not--in the current climate of paranoia and caution--people can be denied boarding without a return ticket by the airline itself?  I'm really just trying to cover all bases here.

3.  For purchasing her return ticket, does anyone know if it can be from a different airline than the one we entered on?  It would make it easier to get a reasonably priced return ticket with low(er) change/cancellation fees if we can shop around.
 

We 1) have been married for longer than she's had the tourist visa, 2) she's already demonstrated she's used it once *while we were married* and returned to her country within the limits of the tourist visa, 3) we have a lease on a place here in both of our names that we'll be paying while in America.  My contention is that it's impossible for us to have intention to immigrate on her tourist visa at this point, and really, impossible to have any sort of long-term intentions or plans considering our individual situation and the current world we live in.

Based on all this, I personally feel like she would be allowed to enter.  Is there anything I'm not considering?  Any advice?  Any answers to the above questions.  It is much, much appreciated in advance.  Thanks again if you can help...

[Boiler 45,670]

B2 is for visiting not immigrating, she should bring evidence of her ties to Thailand and need to return.

[milktea 0]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

B2 is for visiting not immigrating, she should bring evidence of her ties to Thailand and need to return.

I thought I had explained adequately she would be visiting with a "wait and see" approach, given the uniqueness of the COVID situation.  We don't know if we would want to or even like to stay long-term without visiting first; forgive me if that wasn't clear.

Also, I should have stated that we planned on bringing the lease with us, translated into English if need be, in addition to photos of the house with our stuff in it for good measure, although I suspect only the lease would really hold any water with US immigration.

 

[Boiler 45,670]

1 hour ago, milktea said:

If things go well, (i.e. I get a job and it looks like we can adapt to COVID-era USA living and want to be in it for the longer haul), we could apply for a Change of Status and start her green card process. 

I do not see how Covid makes any difference and may well explain her concerns and others with similar ideas being refused entry.

[SalishSea 17,928]

2 hours ago, milktea said:

If things go well, (i.e. I get a job and it looks like we can adapt to COVID-era USA living and want to be in it for the longer haul), we could apply for a Change of Status and start her green card process. 

This is not legal.  This is what you cannot do on a B visa, and it is precisely the reason behind the horror stories you cite.

 

If you eventually decide you both want to live here, you will need to petition her for a spousal visa, and get into the queue like everyone else.

[Unlockable 7,315]

Quote

Increasingly, she's been reading accounts on Facebook groups from Thai people with tourist visas have been being denied entry to the US at extremely high rates recently, including one woman who was warned by a well-meaning airline staff in Thailand to not board her flight with horror stories of rampant denied entry, including the mention that some have had their tourist visas supposedly canceled on the spot by CBP.  I've told my wife that their situation is not the same as ours, and that it might be overblown, but it still gives us serious pause for thought.

 

Your wife is right to be concerned. Because what you are planning to do is adding to the problems with people abusing the tourist visas. You say this...

2 hours ago, milktea said:

If things go well, (i.e. I get a job and it looks like we can adapt to COVID-era USA living and want to be in it for the longer haul), we could apply for a Change of Status and start her green card process.

 

Using a visitor visa to plan to come over and change status is visa fraud. A visitor visa is for visiting the US. Not to skip the line. This is why many agents at borders are cracking down. Because too many people are planning to do what you are planning. What you are planning will be adding to the problem.

 

 

2 hours ago, milktea said:

Based on all this, I personally feel like she would be allowed to enter.  Is there anything I'm not considering? 

What you feel or want is irrelevant. It is what the immigration officers feel if she is a risk to abuse her visa. And based on what you posted with your plans, they would be right to deny her.

 

 

2 hours ago, milktea said:

I thought I had explained adequately she would be visiting with a "wait and see" approach, given the uniqueness of the COVID situation.  We don't know if we would want to or even like to stay long-term without visiting first; forgive me if that wasn't clear.

And this is probably the same excuse others who are abusing the visa is using. Again, the visitor visa is not a "wait and see" visa. That is why a person with a B2 must show travel itineraries with return dates and tickets. They don't tell the agent, "Oh, I am gonna wait and see when i return". You kept making points in your post that your wife has proof and has demonstrated that she does not want to stay in the US, but your plans state otherwise. So it comes off contradictory. 

 

 

We understand your situation. These are difficult times. The holiday season is here and for many the holidays are cancelled. 

[Dashinka 24,598]

It seems the OP needs to re-evaluate their plan and make some decisions.  Based on the fact that they cannot extend their legal status in Thailand, it seems the plan is leaning toward coming back to the US.  There is the possibility they could pursue DCF in an emergency basis to make everything legal, and if the eventual decision is to move back to Thailand or somewhere else, the wife can always give up the GC. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Dashinka

[milktea 0]

Thank you all for your time, even the ones who felt the need to moralize and browbeat rather than, or sometimes in addition to, giving usable information.

I do, however, resent the assumption from some that we plan on "abusing" our visa status or that this is somehow a ruse.  I explained our situation and if you still think that is our actual intention after thoughtfully reading what I wrote, then there's really nothing more to say.  I don't think we're some unique snowflakes that deserve special consideration, and I was just looking for usable information  to make the best decision during a difficult and unprecedented time.  Outside of the scope of my *specific logistical questions about border crossing*, I don't need a finger-wagging lecture or a review of what the B1/B2, CR-1, IR-1, K1, K3, COS, are any of the other things I've read enough about these things to last several lifetime, thanks.

Anyway, thanks for your time if you were honestly trying to give thoughtful, specific, relevant information in response to my post.  And look, I get it.  I've lived in Thailand for 9 years by the book and legally, and I don't like seeing other people mess the system about as well.  But I also try to remember that  not everything is as cut-and-dried as it may appear and there's a human story behind everything.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by milktea
clarity

[Dashinka 24,598]

15 minutes ago, milktea said:

Thank you all for your time, even the ones who felt the need to moralize and browbeat rather than, or sometimes in addition to, giving usable information.

I do, however, resent the assumption from some that we plan on "abusing" our visa status or that this is somehow a ruse.  I explained our situation and if you still think that is our actual intention after thoughtfully reading what I wrote, then there's really nothing more to say.  I don't think we're some unique snowflakes that deserve special consideration, and I was just looking for usable information  to make the best decision during a difficult and unprecedented time.  Outside of the scope of my *specific logistical questions about border crossing*, I don't need a finger-wagging lecture or a review of what the B1/B2, CR-1, IR-1, K1, K3, COS, are any of the other things I've read enough about these things to last several lifetime, thanks.

Anyway, thanks for your time if you were honestly trying to give thoughtful, specific, relevant information in response to my post.  And look, I get it.  I've lived in Thailand for 9 years by the book and legally, and I don't like seeing other people mess the system about as well.  But I also try to remember that  not everything is as cut-and-dried as it may appear and there's a human story behind everything.

 

 

I don't think anyone here can predict what your wife may face at the border as there are too many variables such as which CBP officer she sees, what their mood is, will she be sent to secondary, etc.  You can always try your luck, but as you admitted, there are some red flags be relayed in what you and your wife is hearing as well as your stating in an open social media site the potential plan for her entering on a B1 with possible intentions to adjust status.  This is not legal, and no one here would suggest this route to take.  You may want to hit the report button on your OP and ask a moderator/organizer to move this thread to the Thailand regional forum to get more specific regional responses from members there.

 

https://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/151-thailand/

Edited November 18, 2020 by Dashinka

[milktea 0]

16 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I don't think anyone here can predict what your wife may face at the border as there are too many variables such as which CBP officer she sees, what their mood is, will she be sent to secondary, etc.  You can always try your luck.  You may want to hit the report button on your OP and ask a moderator/organizer to move this post to the Thailand regional forum to get more specific responses from people there.

 

https://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/151-thailand/

Thanks, Dashinka.  Not looking for predictions, that would be silly.  Was mainly just looking for more up-to-date border crossing info, even if only anecdotal.  

Honestly, IF we decided to move to the USA permanently, I would prefer to go the standard IR-1 route.  Faster, less hassle, less chance of rejection.  Duh.  But there are also larger pros, cons, and considerations that are unique to our particular situation and too numerous and personal to go into here.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by milktea
clarity

[SteveInBostonI130 3,467]

29 minutes ago, milktea said:

Thanks, Dashinka.  Not looking for predictions, that would be silly.  Was mainly just looking for more up-to-date border crossing info, even if only anecdotal.  

Honestly, IF we decided to move to the USA permanently, I would prefer to go the standard IR-1 route.  Faster, less hassle, less chance of rejection.  Duh.  But there are also larger pros, cons, and considerations that are unique to our particular situation and too numerous and personal to go into here.

 

Hello,

 

What others have stated, perhaps harshly or not, is that what you are planning is not correct.  If you decide to move to the US, then the IR-1 is the only correct route.  It is not a preference. 

 

You technically have the option to abuse your wife's tourist visa and try to adjust status.  But that will be committing visa fraud because you will be misrepresenting your intent when you enter the US (stating to CBP that your wife is just visiting and will return after X weeks or months).  If you state your true intent to CBP,  that you are not sure when your wife will return because you may decide later to stay and adjust status, then CBP will deny her entry.

 

No one here will give you advise or suggestion on how to commit fraud, no matter your unique situation and the "pros and cons".

 

[Calicolom 266]

2 hours ago, milktea said:

Thanks, Dashinka.  Not looking for predictions, that would be silly.  Was mainly just looking for more up-to-date border crossing info, even if only anecdotal.  

Honestly, IF we decided to move to the USA permanently, I would prefer to go the standard IR-1 route.  Faster, less hassle, less chance of rejection.  Duh.  But there are also larger pros, cons, and considerations that are unique to our particular situation and too numerous and personal to go into here.

 

Everyone has larger pros and cons, and unique, situations. What, When, and Where, is what the border patrol will ask.

[Boiler 45,670]

My situation was certainly unique.

[Loren Y 2,755]

Why come all the way to the US. I have renewed My Type-O spousal visa ( I am assuming you are living there on this, as I have) and I would always just make a quick run/trip to the Thai embassy in Cambodia. I would plan for 3 days, but IF I dropped everything off in the morning I would pick up my new visa at the latest the next morning, maybe the next day in the afternoon, and then make my way back to Thailand. I would reccomend this, and avoid the US all together. You don't want to come here now, trust me, I am so close to jumping ship as the lock-downs and curfews begin again. I would stay where you are.

On a side note, I know of at least 3 Thai friends of my wifes and that I know that have entered within the past 3 months on tourist visas with no issues.

 

As another side note, I have found it easier just to keep 400,000 Baht in a savings account at Bangkok Bank, and I just renew while in country. I am thinking you don't have the income to renew in Thailand, so that is why you want to leave and return, I recommend Cambodia.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Loren Y

[tomatoboy 33]

 I’m going to be completely straight with you. The B visa is not a “wait and see” visa. It is for visiting, period. It isn’t a “trial period.” Having read what your situation is and what you were considering, I would say there is a fairly high likelihood CBP will suspect immigrant intent and deny entry. The simple fact that your spouse is married to a US citizen ALONE is *sometimes* enough for them to suspect it, based on historical patterns of denied entry by CBP and denied visas by State. If it were me, I wouldn’t risk it. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by tomatoboy