Marriage in order to date?!

[MarryForLove 0]

 Question: I met an Indian man online 7 months ago, when I was planning a tourism trip to India. We found we had a lot in common and decided to meet during my trip. We did that, and hit it off, spending the entire time together. Since my return to the U.S. we have chatted or talked every day, have developed feelings for each other, and are interested in pursuing the idea of being together long-term. We would like to take the next step in our relationship, which is to spend more time together dating in person and getting to know each other. And we both feel it is really important for him to come to the U.S. to see what life is like here and also to see where I live, etc. so we can decide where we might want to be together – there or here, and if at all. This is a quite normal and logical step in any relationship – to continue to date and get to know each other. But I’m finding that it seems impossible for him to just come and spend some time with me, due to the visa options and restrictions. From what I understand, he would almost assuredly be denied a tourism visa: he is 44 years old and single, lives in his parents’ home (cares for them), is self-employed as a tutor, has no children, etc. (I’m 51, single, male, self-employed). I don’t see how to convince the visa app people that we just want to spend more time together to determine if we want to be together long-term. The only other options I see are the Fiance or Spouse visas, both of which require us to MARRY just so we can DATE!!!! This seems absurd to me and flies in the face of the reasons for immigration laws in the first place. (Where is the Just Dating visa?!?!) They are essentially forcing people to get married. (Not everyone is interested in immigrating to the U.S.!  If we DO decide that we want to be together AND in the U.S., THEN we can follow that route.) We are mature adults and both open to the idea of marriage but don’t want to be forced into it prematurely just so we can spend time together in my home/country. I guess I’m curious if anyone else has experienced this catch 22 and what they might have done about it. Has anyone been able to get a tourism visa by being honest about this (or not), or had a tourism visa denial then applied for Fiance/Spouse? Is that OK? We’re open to any creative ideas or advice. If we have to marry, I'm not sure which is better, fiance or spouse visa (get married outside of U.S.)? But again, marriage for dating purposes makes no sense…. We'd prefer to marry for love. Thanks for any help!

[debbiedoo 2,339]

the purpose of a k1 is not to decide if you want to marry, but when you already KNOW you want to marry.

 

if he is unable to obtain a tourist visa, you visiting him there will be your only option for in person time together.

 

there isnt a 'dating' visa of any kind.

[Lucky2Lucky 2,526]

Yes it’s tough for those of us whose significant others come from places where it’s difficult to obtain a tourist visa. He has to be truthful in his application. You can make trips to India to see him and you guys can travel to other countries where it is easier for him to visit. Most of our (VJ people) relationship is spent getting to know one another through online or the phone- yeah it sucks but it is what it is. Never would I have thought I’d be engaged after meeting my (Now) husband on the third visit. 
There is no rush to marry/immigrate. Take as long as you need to get to know one another which will be visits to places other than the US. A k1 is for fiancés only- get engaged, file k1, immigrate, marry within 90 days and adjust status. A CR1 is for a spouse to immigrate.

prior to us initiating our k1 my husband was denied a tourist visa. That’s about all we needed to realize we want to be together forever and got engaged right then and there (more of a decision than an actual proposal lol) and filed for the k1 a few months later. During that time I made many more trips to see him and even my mom was able to fly out to meet him. I get what you mean about wanting him to see the US first before deciding to live here but again, unfortunately not everyone has that option. Free travel isn’t a right.

Also- are you aware same sex marriage isn’t allowed in India? So you would HAVE to get married in another country anyways.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Luckycuds

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

I know it sounds frustrating, but I’d suggest he first apply for a tourist visa, and see whether or not he gets it? You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

a question, if he lives at home because he cares for his parents, who will care for them while he is away/if he decides he does want to marry and move?

[MarryForLove 0]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I realize my post was more venting than anything else, as the options are pretty clear, but your comments are helpful. To answer your questions, yes, same-sex marriage is not legal in India, but it is in the U.S., so we could marry either here (fiancé) or abroad (spouse). For the latter, South Africa is an option that seems doable (I do some work there). Regarding his parents, they are pretty self-sufficient and there are siblings and relatives who can take over if he leaves. I just thought that was a plus for the tourism visa – that he has a reason to return – to balance out the fact that he lives at home!

 

From what I’ve read and people on his side are telling him, if you’re single with no strong ties to your home country, you’re pretty much dead in the water for a tourist visa approval. At least for an Indian.  If he’s upfront about wanting to visit a guy he met online I think the confusion that would generate during a 2-minute visa interview would be enough for a denial. Then we’d have to start all over again. He’s frustrated because he knows what he wants and wants to get on with it; I am more cautious and marriage is a big deal to me. I’m not opposed to it but it carries much more weight on my side. I do care for him and feel that things could be good, but I’m more annoyed at having to rush marriage for him to be here. I really want him to be able to see this place and get a feel for it. I have a house and land in the country and we’ve talked about running an animal welfare or other business here. It all feels a bit mail-order bride-ish otherwise! 😊 Anyway, we are planning to see each other for the whole month of May – either in India, here if he could get a visa, or elsewhere abroad. That’s the soonest we can get together again due to work schedules, and is 4 months away.

 

Theoretical question: If we started the fiancé process now, and it takes several months to process, assuming he is approved and eventually comes to the U.S., we would have that processing time to continue to get to know and meet each other outside the U.S. (May), and would also have the 90-day period in the U.S. to get married. So at that point he can spend time at my place. If for some reason we decided not to get married at any point in there, then we could just cancel the K-1 and part ways, correct? I know this sounds a bit mechanical and I don’t want it to be that, but concretely this is possible, I think. The reasoning is that the tourist visa process would probably ultimately cost close to the same in time and money, whether he is approved or not. This is using the K-1 in a slightly unorthodox way, but dammit, I have to work with what options there are/aren’t. There is no deceit if the intention at application is marriage but it later changes.

 

Thanks again for your comments! Very much appreciated. Should I be posting this in a K-1 forum?

[carmel34 3,531]

Yes it's too bad but there is no US visa for dating.  Long-distance relationships involving two countries can be tricky but many of us have done it.  I was in your same shoes two years ago, met a guy online, talked every day, and the relationship really blossomed after my first trip to Brazil to meet him.  He didn't even have a passport at that point, plus we knew it would be very difficult for him (young, single, male) to get a tourist visa to visit me in the US, so to continue our relationship, I traveled to see him in Brazil to spend time together many times before we decided we wanted to live together, and take the next step.  We also spent ten days in London and Paris together after he got a Brazilian passport.  In our case, we decided to get married in Brazil and file for a CR-1 visa.  That process took 11 months and now we're living together in California.  We decided on a CR-1 so that he could work and drive as soon as he arrived, to avoid the K-1 hellish period of 6+ months after arrival with nothing to do, not able to work, drive, or leave the country if there was a situation back home and he needed to go for an urgent visit.  My advice is to take your time, travel to see each other multiple times, he can try for a B visa, and see where the relationship goes based on these trips, and then make a decision about marriage or not.  Save all your boarding passes and passport stamps.  Take a few photos of the two of you together on these trips.  Then if you decide you want to live together in the US and marriage is what you both want, file for either a K-1 or get married somewhere and file for a CR-1.  Do lots more research on this site and check out the USCIS and NVC websites for official government policies and guides.  I recommend the CR-1 route.  Good luck!

Edited December 16, 2019 by carmel34

[Unlockable 7,306]

1 hour ago, MarryForLove said:

Theoretical question: If we started the fiancé process now, and it takes several months to process, assuming he is approved and eventually comes to the U.S., we would have that processing time to continue to get to know and meet each other outside the U.S. (May), and would also have the 90-day period in the U.S. to get married. So at that point he can spend time at my place. If for some reason we decided not to get married at any point in there, then we could just cancel the K-1 and part ways, correct? I know this sounds a bit mechanical and I don’t want it to be that, but concretely this is possible, I think. The reasoning is that the tourist visa process would probably ultimately cost close to the same in time and money, whether he is approved or not. This is using the K-1 in a slightly unorthodox way, but dammit, I have to work with what options there are/aren’t. There is no deceit if the intention at application is marriage but it later changes.

Are you asking if you could use the K1 as a temp visitor visa so you can get to know your SO better in the US? Because, if so, then it is highly not recommended. The K1 process is not like the tourist visa. It is a long complex process that requires background checks on both you and your partner as well as your relationship. Not to mention, that one of the main documents you will provide for the K1 is a written statement that you will marry within the 90 days. If you don't legitimately plan to do so, then you should not be doing the K1 at all. The K1 is for people who are ready to be married.

 

To give you an example, there was a case a few years ago where a women got notified that her K1 fiance was denied entry to the US. He had been given the K1 visa but was confused why he could not enter the US. After some investigation, it turns out that when her fiance was interview by the border agent at the port of entry, he was asked if he will be getting married to her, to which he replied, "I don't know. We will see." And just like that he was sent back on a flight to his country. The women posted on Visajourney how she was devastated to go through all of that work for the K1 and for him to make a statement like that. These visas are not something for you play around with and try out. Too many people struggle to obtain them to be devalued like that. Yes, we know you are dealt with less than what you want but you make do and overcome. You don't have to rush the marriage. Spend time with each other in other countries. And, who knows, this may even make your relationship stringer.

[Canerican 242]

As others have posted try getting a tourist visa. If that does not work then you will have to meet in a third party country such as Canada or another country close to him. I understand that you want him to experience American life but that may not be possible. The closes to American life you may is probably Canada if he cannot come to America on a tourist visa. 

[AffableAndy 107]

For what it's worth, as purely anecdotal data from an Indian (in a same-sex marriage, though not relevant to the rest of this post btw!)  -  tourist visas are not THAT hard to get, especially if you have a history of travel abroad. 

 

If this is your SO's first time travelling abroad and you are worried about rejection, you could try meeting in India or a third country (Singapore/South Africa are both fairly easy for Indians to go to, again this is anecdotal). 

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

2 hours ago, AffableAndy said:

For what it's worth, as purely anecdotal data from an Indian (in a same-sex marriage, though not relevant to the rest of this post btw!)  -  tourist visas are not THAT hard to get, especially if you have a history of travel abroad. 

 

If this is your SO's first time travelling abroad and you are worried about rejection, you could try meeting in India or a third country (Singapore/South Africa are both fairly easy for Indians to go to, again this is anecdotal). 

Hm, Singapore is not gay-friendly from what I heard?, maybe not the best idea. Cape Town would be totally fine. But it’s far.

Edited December 16, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[MarryForLove 0]

Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate your taking the time to respond and giving suggestions. Frankly, this is all getting a bit depressing, and is muddying the fun of being in a new relationship and not being able to pursue it properly, like an adult, instead of having to play all these ridiculous games. It comes down to my government dictating what I can or can't do in my personal life.... Grrr. Meeting in other countries involves a lot of logistics/expense but is also just repeated vacations, not really representative of living together. We both feel the odds of getting the tourist visa are really slim (he hasn't traveled), and we lose time/money trying that (also demoralizing if denied). Neither of us really wants or cares about getting married in the legal/bureaucratic sense, but we both believe strongly in love-based commitment and partnership. So for the moment we're stuck. Need to think about it and talk and see what we come up with. I'll be reading more on this and other sites and hopefully the best solution will manifest itself. I'll refrain from venting further but may ask more questions if you don't mind. Again, thanks for your help! 

[Boiler 43,433]

The fact that he can afford to vacation in the US would seem a plus, if you want to wait until you have also visited other countries as has been mentioned and he can show a world travel pattern that would as well.

 

Why has he not traveled before? Seems to have no commitments stopping him?

[Unlockable 7,306]

17 hours ago, MarryForLove said:

Frankly, this is all getting a bit depressing, and is muddying the fun of being in a new relationship and not being able to pursue it properly, like an adult, instead of having to play all these ridiculous games. It comes down to my government dictating what I can or can't do in my personal life.... Grrr. 

Except that is not what is happening. I know you are frustrated but there are reasons behind the process. Yes, there was a time a person could show up at the airport with a new foreign spouse and the border agent would stamp the immigrants passport to make them a permanent resident right at the gate. A LOT has happened since then. Immigration fraud, marriage fraud, and even terrorist attacks (one of the San Bernardino shooters came on a K1 visa)  have changed how the US government hand handle immigration cases.

 

The US government is not stopping you from doing what you want in your personal life. You still have options. They are just not immediate like you want them to be. In fact, the US government allows for same sex marriages which is still not recognized in a lot of other countries. I know you are venting in frustration but it is not as bad as it seems. Things could be a lot worse in your situation.

 

[Boiler 43,433]

Important to remember that Immigration is a 2 way street, many factors come into play when deciding who moves.

[Going through 5,668]

On 12/16/2019 at 12:44 PM, Unlockable said:

a women got notified that her K1 fiance was denied entry to the US. He had been given the K1 visa but was confused why he could not enter the US. After some investigation, it turns out that when her fiance was interview by the border agent at the port of entry, he was asked if he will be getting married to her, to which he replied, "I don't know. We will see." And just like that he was sent back on a flight to his country. The women posted on Visajourney how she was devastated to go through all of that work for the K1 and for him to make a statement like that.

You know, I always wondered what happened to that couple after that.  From what I remember, she never came back to the thread to update at the end WHY he said what he said, and what the end result was going forward in their relationship.