Help with Possible Scam?

[krazyscotsman 8]

I'm sure this has been asked a million times but I haven't seen a response to my question or at least to the question like this. I have been talking to a lady from Ukraine for about 3 months or so. We have talked marriage but nothing specific. She and I have agreed we need to meet and see how things are between us before getting to that point. Here's my concern, she very much wants to meet me in the USA. She lives in the Donetsk region where proxy war has been waging - in fact, she lives approximately 25 km from the front line. I would love to meet her. But my concern is a few things that makes we cautious. I have said that I will travel to Kiev and we can take a vacation somewhere local or outside of Ukraine. She insists wants to visit the USA since she would be changing her life forever, she wants to know she would like it here to move to the USA. I understand this desire. But I have only spoken to her, e-mailed, and received videos and photos. I should say she is absolutely stunning; there are many beautiful Ukrainian ladies so I do not see this as an immediate sign of scam. I visited Kiev about 10 years ago for business and saw a tremendous amount of beautiful ladies. I do know the photos and videos are all the same lady and they are taken in all kinds of environments and any specific photos I request, she sends - nothing graphic. My concerns are a few things, 1) we have never video communicated so I have NO assurance that the person in the videos and photos are the same voice as I talk to over the phone 2) she seems really insistent to come to the USA for the visit with me paying the cost of the visa and airline ticket 3) many sites say that there's a lot of scammers in this area 4) I can't be sure if the travel agency is real or not - and if real if they are on a cut of the scam 5) the cost at the travel agency seems strange to me claiming they can get her a travel visa in 10 working days for a 90 day visa $300 and a 3 year visa $450 with no visits to the embassy required with appropriate documents from her and the airline prices seem incredibly low 6) her cell number has changed 3 times in 3 months 7) and her old email address was searched many times on a anti-scammer website. 

 

I do have some of her responses to these questions concerns. I will list what she has said 1) she claims the internet speeds and cell data rates are too bad to really video call; I somewhat believe this as even a simple cell call gets dropped regularly and the successful calls are riddled with audio dropping in and out 2) she states she is the one that would be moving to another country and she would like to see the world she is moving into and the life I live to see if we are a fit and also she says she would love to invite me to see her in her city but she fears for my safety as it is dangerous for Ukrainian citizens and foreigners in the Donetsk area would definitely be in danger for at least robbery; she says her urgency is she has to work around her company's vacation schedule and does not want to loose the opportunity 3) No answer to this other than to say she is serious and wants to leave because there's no future here with war 4) She just says I can work directly with the travel agency and send the funds to them and not her; the travel agent lists themselves as "caviar travel" but I can not find any real website or anything regarding Caviar Travel or a way to determine if this is a real agency or what; the address is legitimate but that's all I know 5) from everything I read, it is nearly impossible for a single young Ukrainian lady to get a visitors visa but the agency claims they can get her one in 10 working days, the cost I have seen online for the visa application is $160 but I'm not sure if the other processing cost are to get things to move quickly also I have not seen a 90 day versus 3 year visa; and the airline ticket rates are low for me to fly to Kiev is a minimum of $1100 US the agent claims she can get ticket from Kiev to Nashville for $824 6) she claims it is common to change cell numbers in Ukraine as it is often times cheaper for rates - I have no idea as this is totally different than the USA 7) she says she was shocked to see her email address and photos (2 photos) posted on an anti-scam website; she said she never lied to me and was actively looking and communicating with different men from marriage site but she claims she never moved beyond the first 3 e-mails except me.

 

I know I wrote a lot but I'm really torn. I don't want to be scammed but she seems very real on our calls and in e-mails but there's some red flags. I have searched a lot on information and I just can't seem to figure out if I trust that she is acting normal especially living in an area with war. I know scammers come in all shapes and sizes from organized to individual. I also know that one decent score for a scammer in a poor country can be months worth of income. Having said that, I do really like the person I think I have met. 

 

Could someone please share their thoughts. I just don't want to be missing the obvious sign of scam which right now seems to be the 10 day visa? That seems unrealistic but I do know that in some cases travel agencies can do things quicker. Oh last point, she has never traveled outside of Ukraine. 

 

Thanks for your time and hopefully your thoughts.

[doggieandsam 765]

hi, my two cents below. hope these help.

 

1) talking just 3 months is too short to be insisting on marriage and moving to the US. don't get me wrong, a lot of people do get married fast, but considering you guys have not even met in person yet, you should do that first before even thinking about the logistics of moving her to the US.

 

2) her desire to visit and "see" the USA to see if it is a place she can see herself migrating to and being happy is a valid point. she should visit by all means BUT (and this is a big but) she should do so on her own capabilities and that includes applying for her visa on her own and paying for her tickets! if you both are comfortable with her staying in your place when she gets to the US, then that's fine but everything else she should pay for. if you are feeling generous and what to pay for her ticket as well...then that is up to you, but all airline companies have websites so book the ticket yourself online. do not send money to her or to an external agency to do the ticket buying!

 

3) there are no agencies who can guarantee a tourist visa to the US! NO AGENCY HAS THIS POWER, ANYWHERE. sure, an agency may be able to guide her on the process of how to apply for the visa and help her fill out forms etc but any agency or company that says they can get her a US visa is a scam. she has to apply on her own by filling out the visa application form online, setting up an interview appointment with the US embassy or consulate nearest to her and then showing up to said interview and convincing the consular officer that she has the capabilities to be able to "tour" the US on her own means and that she has enough ties to her home country to ensure she will exit the US after her tour is over. If she cannot convince the consular officer of these things, then she will not be granted a tourist visa. And no, you as a US citizen, cannot "sponsor" her for a tourist visa. There is no such thing as sponsoring a tourist visa.

 

4) There is no such thing as a "10-day US visa" either. 

 

5) Asking for money to pay for stuff is a huge red flag. Never ever wire any money to her or to any agency or third party.

 

Too many red flags on this one to ignore. Please proceed with caution.

[f f 725]

first before any other money is spent buy her a Webcam and see if she actually exists. video chat some and make sure she is at her apartment and not some call center.

the visa agency sounds like a scam. there would not be a difference in price for different lengths and it could be scamming her also as in she is not aware it is wrong.

it sounds like scam with the changing phone numbers and emails is not normal. but love is blind and it is hard to give someone up without knowing for sure.

good luck and keep the skepticism alive and well.

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by f f

[florida racer 73 200]

Sorry, it sounds like a total scam. She wants to come to the USA, if she was really interested in meeting you she would be willing to meet in Kiev.

 

I have heard of this scenario from the eastern side of Ukraine, and I have seen emails with the exact same scam, they have a travel agency that can get them a international passport, book airline tickets and get the tourist visa.

 

The biggest red flag is that her photos are on a scammers website (provided that they really are her photos).

 

I would be willing to bet that if you cut and paste a few lines out of her emails and searched google the exact wording and phrasing would pop up in the search results. Most times the scammers are using template letters that they send to everyone.

 

Do yourself a favor and do not contact her anymore, it will only lead to a loss of money for you. Look for a woman that wants more than some quick money!

 

Good luck to you

 

 

 

[az2014 381]

If you have to ask....

 

C'mon wake up...and read what you posted.

 

You already know the answer and want confirmation.

[Ontarkie 14,275]

If she is a women and not a man. She has no intentions on visiting you in the US. I bet she is asking for low amounts of money from you and 10 other guys. 

Crappy internet or not when someone starts to talk about marriage they would be on skype for what ever time they could make it work.

 

The fact that you found her picture or I should say the picture she is using on so many sites screams RUN. 

 

You gut is screaming at you. Listen to it. DO not fall victem to this scam. As for the agency it's mostly likely part of the scam that is why you can't find anything on it. Give them time and when they scam more ppl out of their money they may make a webpage to sucker even more ppl in. 

 

Oh and when someone has an answer for everything that is to rehearsed you really need to run. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Ontarkie

[Jmc1 13]

Advice from the US Embassy regarding how common scams work... https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/victims-of-crime/marriage-dating-scams/ 

[krazyscotsman 8]

Thanks everyone for your input. You absolutely confirmed my thoughts. I guess I just didn't want to believe what I knew was red flags and go for my heart. But, I'm always a skeptical person. So I have been pretty concerned that the writing was on the wall as a scam. In fact yesterday as we talked, her cell was constantly ringing and a land line behind her. So, I was thinking this is got to be a scam. Thanks for confirming. 

 

Again, everyone thank you for helping me clarify some of the things that I was already thinking was fraudulent. 

 

 

[f f 725]

29 minutes ago, krazyscotsman said:

Thanks everyone for your input. You absolutely confirmed my thoughts. I guess I just didn't want to believe what I knew was red flags and go for my heart. But, I'm always a skeptical person. So I have been pretty concerned that the writing was on the wall as a scam. In fact yesterday as we talked, her cell was constantly ringing and a land line behind her. So, I was thinking this is got to be a scam. Thanks for confirming. 

 

Again, everyone thank you for helping me clarify some of the things that I was already thinking was fraudulent. 

 

 

it takes a strong person to openly admit to being taken advantage of. good job in figuring it out.

[krazyscotsman 8]

Thanks for that. I probably shouldn't admit this since I was asking advice, but I am a senior cybersecurity expert. As such, I am cautious and suspicious by nature. But, I wanted to believe even when I knew something(s) didn't add up. As I tell students and junior engineers, anyone can be socially engineered. I tell my daughter the same thing as life practice. Fortunately, I was able to continue to listen to my own knowledge of social engineering and keep a cautious aspect. Again as I have said in many meetings, the easiest hack is a social engineering hack; people are wired to want to believe and trust especially if you feed them just the right amount of "assurance." 

 

Thanks again all for your input in really helping me out. I just didn't know enough about the situation in Eastern Ukraine to fully say yes this is 100% fraud. I have been to Kiev and Chernigov in past years for business and understood these cities but that was before the war in the East. Again thanks!

 

 

[KierenHby 899]

I didn't need to read beyond the first few sentences to see this had all the makings of a scam. Going through the rest of the first post basically confirmed it. When in doubt, go with your gut. 

[KierenHby 899]

US embassy in Ukraine::  https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/victims-of-crime/marriage-dating-scams/

 

and this one::  https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/apr/06/ukraine-wife-internet-romance-industry-online-scam

 

[mindthegap 2,590]

Run, don't walk.

[f f 725]

now that you are sure it is a scam why not troll them? think of it as a civic duty to protect others since as they have to deal with you they can not scam others.

[kzielu 1,149]

Scam like you wouldn't believe. Length of visa validity depending on how much you pay ? Ridiculous.