Do these visa categories really contribute to US economy?

[Lil bear 3,842]

12 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Ah, happiness. Finland, Denmark, Iceland have no way to compete with USA.

Thankfully they dont have to even try 

[JeanneAdil 6,253]

you just ask with no stats to  back up any claims but there are studies done and the following are the real stats

What share of the immigrant population has a college education?

In 2021, 34 percent (13.6 million) of the 40.2 million immigrants ages 25 and older had a bachelor’s degree or higher, a rate similar to that of U.S.-born adults (see Figure 3). However, newer arrivals tend to be better educated; 47 percent of immigrants who entered the country between 2017 and 2021 held at least a bachelor’s degree.

Immigrants constituted 17 percent (28.6 million people) of the civilian labor force (166.9 million) in 2021, which comprises both employed and unemployed people. Immigrants’ share of the labor force has more than tripled since 1970, when they accounted for approximately 5 percent of the civilian labor force.

 

What types of jobs do immigrants perform?

Of the 26.8 million employed foreign-born workers ages 16 and older in 2021, the largest share (37 percent) worked in management, professional, and related occupations (see Figure 4).

 

read the real studies

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#:~:text=How many U.S. residents are,or 20 percent) from 2010.https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#:~:text=How many U.S. residents are,or 20 percent) from 2010.

MY great grandfather came thru Canada into Michigan from Finland and worked the mines/ended up in PA working coal and dying of black lung with no disabllity income so that immigrant gave it all

Edited June 29, 2023 by JeanneAdil

[Boiler 43,736]

My Grandfather was invalided out of the pits with the dust, very common back then.

[Sm1smom 246]

11 hours ago, African Zealot said:

PS: DV lottery winners are not highly educated, they only have to pass high school level of education. That’s not highly educated in my book or by any objective measure.

Generalized statements such DV lottery winners are not highly educated is one of the reasons why folks who have no understanding of the DV process or have closely monitored it make the uninformed and sometimes biased opinions they have about DV selectees.

 

Yes, the DV educational requirement is a successful completion of HS, and yes there are some selectees who never advanced beyond that level educationally. However, for every one or two selectee with just a HS diploma, there are  on average four selectees with at least a bachelor’s degree, not to talk of those with graduate study degrees (with some having multiple such degrees), and some with Ph.D degrees (or going through Ph.D studies at the time of being selected). These are not arbitrary numbers, they are factual numbers based on other forums with active DV sections that I monitor, one of which I’ve been a part of as a moderator for the past 12+ years or so. 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

15 hours ago, Demise said:

Okay I think you are really mis-naming some things here. Explain to me in your own words that you understand "FX" to be.

 

 

From DHS website: 

FX1	Spouses of alien residents, exempt from country limits, new arrivals
FX6	Spouses of alien residents, exempt from country limits, adjustments

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

17 hours ago, African Zealot said:

Define fairness. This conversation is going nowhere. In my opinion and apparently based on evidence, the diversity from the 50,000 or so diversity applicants is more important and beneficial than bringing your adult children here. Why should we even bring your adult children here? They’re adults! They shouldn’t even be allowed to come at all except visit. Or we may as well bring your entire clan.

 

- In many cases (ref. F2B thread on Visa Journey) they are not bringing their adult children over here, those children were actually already here when the parents got their green cards. Chances are they got aged out when the green card happened. 
Now most of these "adult" students are paying tuition fees as foreigners, sometimes triple the amount they would have paid if they were in-state. They are not able to get jobs because the employer won't sponsor them.

 

[Demise 1,137]

3 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

From DHS website: 

FX1	Spouses of alien residents, exempt from country limits, new arrivals
FX6	Spouses of alien residents, exempt from country limits, adjustments

Okay, explain in your own words what do you think this means.

[EmilyW 1,234]

15 hours ago, Sm1smom said:

Generalized statements such DV lottery winners are not highly educated is one of the reasons why folks who have no understanding of the DV process or have closely monitored it make the uninformed and sometimes biased opinions they have about DV selectees.

 

Yes, the DV educational requirement is a successful completion of HS, and yes there are some selectees who never advanced beyond that level educationally. However, for every one or two selectee with just a HS diploma, there are  on average four selectees with at least a bachelor’s degree, not to talk of those with graduate study degrees (with some having multiple such degrees), and some with Ph.D degrees (or going through Ph.D studies at the time of being selected). These are not arbitrary numbers, they are factual numbers based on other forums with active DV sections that I monitor, one of which I’ve been a part of as a moderator for the past 12+ years or so. 

Amen!

 

To add, is there a minimum education requirement for K1, CR1 and the other family based visas?  No?  Shouldn't there be, if we're talking about contribution to the economy?

 

To go one step further, if the measure of success as an immigrant is education, let's make a college degree a requirement for all would be immigrants.  Lol, I can hear the howling already. Don't worry though, a large proportion of DV applicants have college degrees.  We will be fine.

Edited June 30, 2023 by EmilyW

[M+K IL 102]

On 6/28/2023 at 3:23 PM, mam521 said:

I'd be more inclined to argue why are people allowed to renew their PR indefinitely if they are in the US - if it's so good, why aren't those people willing to get their citizenship?  

Agreed with the rest of your post, but I'd like to note that immigrants might be from countries that do not allow dual citizenship - so there might be reasons not to naturalize

 

eg China, India (though India's visa regime for ex citizens is almost a citizenship), Indonesia

[mam521 1,788]

3 hours ago, M+K IL said:

Agreed with the rest of your post, but I'd like to note that immigrants might be from countries that do not allow dual citizenship - so there might be reasons not to naturalize

 

eg China, India (though India's visa regime for ex citizens is almost a citizenship), Indonesia

It comes down to somewhat of a philosophical question of where do your allegiances lie? 

 

If you've chosen to live your life in the USA, work in the USA, take advantage of all the US has to offer and essentially sever ties with your home country, what is tying you to that other country? A full term greencard gives a person 10 years to figure it out.  Even a limited term greencard requires a massive effort to finally remove the conditions.  If you're willing to go through that effort, why not be a citizen? 

 

If you ever wanted to go back to that country, you still are tied to the US, even as a PR, unless you rescind your greencard (or citizenship) as you're still required to file income taxes.  At that point, if you're returning permanently, you rescind your US citizenship and can (in most cases) reclaim your birth citizenship by meeting the requirements, just as you had to to get US PR & citizenship in the first place.  

 

The merit based immigration countries push for people to take on their citizenship after they've met PR requirements and are eligible.  

[LucindaLou 43]

Quote

If you've chosen to live your life in the USA, work in the USA, take advantage of all the US has to offer and essentially sever ties with your home country, what is tying you to that other country? A full term greencard gives a person 10 years to figure it out.  Even a limited term greencard requires a massive effort to finally remove the conditions.  If you're willing to go through that effort, why not be a citizen? 

You assume that every future LPR desperately wants to live in the US. I honestly am going there for my husband. Will I mind living in the US? Not really, you can make it a good place to live in. Nonetheless, I am not sure that I would like to sacrifice my family history and ties to my native country.
 

Aside from that my current passport does offer me the chance to return home and a few perks the American passport does not come with.

Sorry but I think that I am not the only pragmatic person who is looking at the benefits versus the risks, considering the only reason I will be moving to the US for is my husband.

[Redro 4,602]

57 minutes ago, LucindaLou said:

You assume that every future LPR desperately wants to live in the US. I honestly am going there for my husband. Will I mind living in the US? Not really, you can make it a good place to live in. Nonetheless, I am not sure that I would like to sacrifice my family history and ties to my native country.
 

Aside from that my current passport does offer me the chance to return home and a few perks the American passport does not come with.

Sorry but I think that I am not the only pragmatic person who is looking at the benefits versus the risks, considering the only reason I will be moving to the US for is my husband.

Oooooh… you don’t even want to be here OR hustle? I think @Swimming_Upstream would say you are the worst type of spousal GC recipient… you should turn in your green card NOW and give it to a much more deserving Student Visa Holder or Adult Child of an LPR/USC… 😉😉😉

[TBoneTX 43,422]

31 minutes ago, Redro said:

Oooooh…

Now, now... let's keep all responses on a high plane in a thread fraught with the chance to go south.

[Mike E 11,727]

45 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Now, now... let's keep all responses on a high plane in a thread fraught with the chance to go south.

Having read on this thread that whitey cannot innovate, invent, or discover, we went south a long time ago.

[M+K IL 102]

4 hours ago, mam521 said:

If you're willing to go through that effort, why not be a citizen? 

So -- not me, I'm naturalizing, but I know Indonesians (not necessarily in the US; some are in Europe) who prefer not to naturalize in the country they live in because of inheritance issues (namely, Indonesia heavily restricts what a foreigner can inherit). I suspect this is less common for Indonesians in the US though - as you said, there are more hoops to jump through here, so those whose family have businesses back home will likely not get as far as getting GCs in the first place.

Perversely, since EU visitor visa are tougher than US (hard to get multiple-entry long-term visas for the Schengen area), even though the Indonesian passport is rather weak, if you're based in Europe traveling is not that big a deal - free access to the Schengen area as a resident, and you can just get long-term visas for the US and UK.

Edited June 30, 2023 by M+K IL
adding example