To file or not to file?

[Veggie3 22]

Like others have mentioned, an important reason for me was the ability to leave the U.S. for long periods and return without a problem. A few months after my naturalization, I won a fellowship and moved to Europe for over 10 months, something that could have caused some difficulties as LPR.

 

Another minor reason which nobody mentioned is the recreational use of marijuana (the OP can relate to that as a Dutch citizen) - even if you live in a state where such use is legal, under federal immigration law it's still punishable, and could lead to deportation. While I'm hardly a heavy user, I'd like to have the freedom to do it without any legal ramifications.

 

Finally, regarding taxes: if you live abroad on a permanent basis, you can enjoy an annual exclusion of up to  $112,000 (in 2022) from your foreign-earned income, and even if you earn more than that sum, you can use foreign tax credit on top of that. In addition, there are tax treaties between the U.S. and many countries to avoid dual taxing. So unless you make a boatload of money, you should be fine wherever you live.

[.yana 586]

1 hour ago, Marieke H said:

I definitely see the benefits of getting US citizenship in your situation! I think the country of origin is a huge factor in determining if and when applying for US citizenship is important.

100%!
 

If I had a passport from a EU country, I might have been hesitating just like OP!

[JeanneAdil 6,249]

several posts on here because green cards are renewing in timely matter and they have trouble renewing DL

 

citizenship would solve that issue

[Visitor User 240]

Are there any cons to becoming a USC?

[Marieke H 2,337]

1 minute ago, Visitor User said:

Are there any cons to becoming a USC?

Several. It costs a lot of money, and there are hoops to jump through. Many people will have to give up the citizenship of their country of origin, which could in some cases cause issues with travelling back or owning property in their country of origin.

 

There really are lots of pros and cons, and they very much depend on personal background and preferences, as illustrated in this thread. I can totally relate to anyone who posted here about their reasons for applying for citizenship or not applying.

[Daphne . 1,709]

45 minutes ago, Veggie3 said:

 

Another minor reason which nobody mentioned is the recreational use of marijuana (the OP can relate to that as a Dutch citizen) - even if you live in a state where such use is legal, under federal immigration law it's still punishable, and could lead to deportation. While I'm hardly a heavy user, I'd like to have the freedom to do it without any legal ramifications.

 

 

Believe it or not, not every Dutch person smokes pot  Actually, I am not a big fan of it at all.. This is not on my pro-con list.

[Daphne . 1,709]

39 minutes ago, .yana said:

100%!
 

If I had a passport from a EU country, I might have been hesitating just like OP!

Yes, apart from not having to deal with USCIS, it is not really an "upgrade" or good addition for me. 

[OldUser 5,072]

You're getting visa free access to:

 

- Canada

- Central African Republic

- Equatorial Guinea

- Mongolia

 

If that matters at all @Daphne . 😃

[Chancy 6,233]

45 minutes ago, OldUser said:

You're getting visa free access to:

 

- Canada

 

Not a plus for citizenship anymore, as LPRs now also have visa/eTA-free access to Canada   Just show up at the border or airport with your passport and GC.

 

[Mike E 11,727]

3 hours ago, Naes said:

One reason for me that isnt mentioned here, was estate taxes. 

 

As we bought a house together, if my spouse passed away when I am not a citizen, there would be different rules applying to me. It may not matter if I just sell the house, but if I wanted to stay here I would have to deal with all that while coping with losing my husband.

And who knows especially if I have children.

My understanding….
 

Estate tax always used to exempt the surviving estate that was passed to the surviving spouse.  In the 1980s Congress passed a law denying this e demotion to all non citizen surviving spouses as Congress believed surviving spouses, including LPRs were taking the estate outside the USA, and thus forever keeping out of control of the IRS.  
 

Back when the estate tax exempted the first $600,000 of the estate this  was a problem for surviving LPR spouses. 

It’s now over $12,000,000 (soon to be over $13,000,000 I think) and so the lack of an estate tax exemption doesn’t affect most surviving LPR spouses when it comes to paying the actual tax.  
. 
 

3 hours ago, Naes said:

 

Im not really finance oriented person but it just felt like too much extra to deal with in an already sad time. 

 

However

 

* some couples have a revocable living trust instead of a wills so that probate is avoided.  AFAIK  a revocable living trust requires at least one trustee be a U.S. citizen. 
 

* there is an annual limit ($164,000 in 2022) on gifts to a non citizen spouse
 

2 hours ago, Visitor User said:

Are there any cons to becoming a USC?

* subject to jury duty. Given the ways I’ve seen jury duty handled, I consider this to be a burdensome. If I knew 100 percent that I would be on a jury panel, at least during the selection phase it would be fine.  Calling a phone number each day for 2 weeks  between say the hours of 9pm and 10pm means I am stranded for 2 weeks. 
 

* cannot board a flight to U.S. without a U.S. passport 

 

* it is harder to replace a naturalization certificate than a green card 

 

* when petitioning spouses and children under 21, these people are considered “immediate family”. There are no derivatives permitted with immediate family petitions.
 

So for example an LPR petitioning a daughter under age 21 who has a son, will be able bring daughter and grandson to the U.S. at the same time, because the daughter is not an immediate relative of a  U.S. citizen  petitioner.  Whereas if the petitioner were a U.S. citizen, the grandson will be stranded and the daughter will have to petition her son once she enters the USA to become an LPR  

 

Logistics are hard in this case and it comes up on VJ several times a year.
 

* the F1 category (not to be confused with non immigrant student visas) is unmarried  sons and daughters of U.S. citizens. The F2B category is unmarried  sons  and daughters of LPRs.  Surprisingly, unless the beneficiary is chargeable to the Philippines,  F2B is ahead of the line before F1.  Seems like LPRs from the Philippines have cracked the visa bulletin code and don’t naturalize as much if they have adult children to petition.  
 

* LPRs and citizens are generally equally subject to the military draft. However when drafting professionals such as medical doctors, because these people are generally commissioned as officers, and because non citizens are generally prohibited from having a commission, possibly this would provide some shield from the draft. Or maybe they would deploy a doctor as a non com medic on the front lines (fortunately rapid naturalization is available so an LPR with an MD might get a choice).  
 

* certain job functions must be performed by U.S. citizens on U.S. soil. At my last job, software developer, 90 percent of my coworkers were people with H1-B visas and green cards.   So I  got tapped to handle a customer support issue when the customer was the federal government (and diagnostic information was sometimes literally redacted). While the H1-Bs and LPRs got to work on writing new code. Being a U.S. citizen can be career limiting.  
 

* some countries disallow multiple citizenship and there is always the risk that laws on multiple citizenship can change. 

[Naes 12,205]

57 minutes ago, Mike E said:

My understanding….
 

Estate tax always used to exempt the surviving estate that was passed to the surviving spouse.  In the 1980s Congress passed a law denying this e demotion to all non citizen surviving spouses as Congress believed surviving spouses, including LPRs were taking the estate outside the USA, and thus forever keeping out of control of the IRS.  
 

Back when the estate tax exempted the first $600,000 of the estate this  was a problem for surviving LPR spouses. 

It’s now over $12,000,000 (soon to be over $13,000,000 I think) and so the lack of an estate tax exemption doesn’t affect most surviving LPR spouses when it comes to paying the actual tax.  
. 
 

However

 

* some couples have a revocable living trust instead of a wills so that probate is avoided.  AFAIK  a revocable living trust requires at least one trustee be a U.S. citizen. 
 

* there is an annual limit ($164,000 in 2022) on gifts to a non citizen spouse
 

Thanks Mike I’ll check again.

 

I don’t want to hijack in case it is far from the subject, but wanted to leave here what I learnt back when we were buying our house.

 

 what we were told was that transfer upon death does not recognize these marital exemptions when the US citizen is the one who passed first. I’m not the most knowledgeable though.

 

I admit to just feeling pissed and scared of having to think losing my spouse at that moment 😅

 

[Mike E 11,727]

29 minutes ago, Naes said:

 .

 

 what we were told was that transfer upon death does not recognize these marital exemptions when the US citizen is the one who passed first. 

 

 

Where did I say otherwise ?

 

I said it doesn’t matter to most couples  now than the $600K estate tax exemption (which not a marital exemption) is over 12 million dollars.  
 

Let’s say you are a non citizen who inherited $11M from your U.S. citizen friend.  The estate pays exactly zero dollars in estate tax.  The heir gets exactly $11M after probate fees. 
 

Now s/friend/spouse/

 

Yes your spousal exemption is zeroed out.  But there was no spousal exemption when the deceased was your friend.  Either way  the estate still pays exactly zero dollars in estate tax.  The heir still gets exactly $11M after probate fees.  
 

Now if in fact the citizen spouse in your  marriage has a net worth of over $12M, then my personal opinion is that it would wise for the other  spouse to naturalize, regardless of the  disadvantages of U.S. citizenship.  Otherwise the non citizen spouse in your marriage is facing the permanent loss of millions of dollars of assets to the IRS (but that portion of those assets in excess of $12M).   

Edited November 23, 2022 by Mike E

[Vegas i-751 60]

@Daphne .I totally understand your dilemma. I never wanted to apply for N400 but the last administration made me more determined than ever to want to do in order to protect myself. I came on a K1 back in 2018 but never felt safe or felt it was good enough (despite being legit) due to the momentum and hatred built towards legal immigrants. 
 

I don’t see me living the rest of my life here as it’s not my home nor do I want it to be. There is so much hatred here but I do me and let born raised people here do them- not all US citizens are like that of course!!!!!!!!

 

 My penny thought is to apply as long run you save money/protect yourself in addition giving yourself flexibility to leaving for years then coming back. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Vegas i-751

[Vegas i-751 60]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:42 PM, Crazy Cat said:

Great post!  Personally, I think the fact that that you can finally get away from USCIS as a huge benefit.  Without filing your N-400, who knows how long it will take for USCIS to process your I-751.   In addition, becoming a citizen is less expensive in the long term.  In my wife's case, I think the China/Taiwan situation played a significant part in her decision to apply.  

Couldn’t agree more. We all have our different reasons for applying. Our current administration inspired me to apply to protect myself as a gay man who came here legitimately on a K1. But I do agree it would no longer requires us to deal with USCIS. 

[ineedadisplayname 443]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:24 PM, AOSFairfax said:

I would tend to agree with all the reasons provided here in favor of naturalizing (ease of every day life, not dealing with USCIS, can move abroad without worrying about keeping GC, more options for the future, etc). One thing that I haven't yet seen mentioned, is the ability to vote. And not just Presidential or US Congress / Senate elections but also, and perhaps most importantly, local elections. The ability to have a say in laws and regulations that impact your daily life I don't think can be overlooked. And it's definitely a privilege not everyone around the world has.

I was reluctant mentioning politics but that was one of my reasons. We pay the same taxes as current citizens so yeah i would like to have a say in what my hard earned money is spent on! I actually can't wait to vote in the next election cycle. Hopefully by then my application will be adjudicated and will be able to vote!

Edited November 24, 2022 by ineedadisplayname