May 24, 2022 -- Deadly shooting at Texas elementary school

[Kai G. Llewellyn 829]

Regardless of one's opinions on gun control, I think universal mental health care should be accessible by all. I think it'd go a long way to keeping the public at large safe. As someone with mental health issues and insurance, getting adequate mental health care is a challenge. Insurance is limited in what it will cover, and it can come at great cost. A kid with a dysfunctional family is completely boned in their ability to get help. Suicide and mental health lines are great for people when they're in crisis, but long term actual treatment, that is something that is far too inaccessible for both people in the US and other countries that have public health systems (as mental health care is never properly funded).

 

You can bang on about being tough on crime, but it doesn't really work. If you've got mental health issues, you won't give two damns about the consequences and absolutely no one should be getting to that point.

 

While tough gun controls have worked well for the UK and many other countries, I genuinely think that they can only be of limited value here, especially when you are working with the confines of the 2nd Amendment. And you can't simply get rid of 2A, firstly because of the amendment ratification process- there would never be consensus for it, and also the precedent it would set. If you could remove one thing from the bill of rights, where does it stop?

 

Unfortunately background checks have had minimal impacts, he would have passed the background check, and I'm also not in favor of locking stuff at age 21, age 18 is the age of adulthood after all. The problem needs to be tackled at the root and that is mental health care. Given that there is a mental health crisis, especially with young people these days, it needs to be addressed otherwise this will keep happening. You can only do so much to keep a gun out of people's hands in the US, the better situation would be for him not to think that pulling the trigger on children would be okay.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Kai G. Llewellyn

[MarJhi 925]

2 minutes ago, LIBrty4all said:

Highly recommend Signal over both WhatsApp and Messenger (both owned by FB, and neither care about your privacy).  Signal isn't as wide-spread as WhatsApp, but a better app overall, and is more secure.

I'll look into it. Essentially I started using what she was using to communicate when we first met. I think most Filipinos use Messenger

[yuna628 9,547]

32 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

In the Michigan case, the kid was 15, so yes, the parents bought the handgun, and they are currently in county jail awaiting trial.  It will be interesting how that trial turns out.  It sounds like this may not have been the case in TX.

 

I completely agree.  as @LIBrty4all mentioned, this was certainly a potential red flag.  Where does an unemployed high school drop out get the money to buy the equipment he had?  There is some discussion about raising the age for a long-gun, who knows, what about people that join the military at 18, will they be exempt?  Also, what age would be appropriate?  I expect most will end up at 21, but is that still too young?  I also heard this individual was arrested as a teen for threatening to shoot up his high school (not confirmed as far as I have heard so far).  Should we leave childhood criminal proceedings on the record?

I have heard that he was employed somewhere under the table or possibly at a Wendys... still I would think he would have needed several years of employment to save all that cash. I have also heard he tried to get his somewhat estranged sister to buy him a weapon - she left the family and joined the Navy apparently. Perhaps he had some other contacts to get the money. 

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

3 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

I'll look into it. Essentially I started using what she was using to communicate when we first met. I think most Filipinos use Messenger

I understand, I was the same way.  When I discovered that messenger had records of every financial login (technically, every single login and website I had ever visited) I had ever made on my phone, going back YEARS, and then discovered FB had bought WhatsApp (I was using it regularly in place of SMS), I deleted both apps and closed my FB account.  

 

And yes, them Pinays LOVE them some FB messenger!!

Edited May 27, 2022 by LIBrty4all

[beloved_dingo 1,941]

18 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

For me it is easy, I dropped FB years ago.

I got rid of Facebook a year and a half ago and haven't missed it one bit. 

5 minutes ago, Kai G. Llewellyn said:

Regardless of one's opinions on gun control, I think universal mental health care should be accessible by all. I think it'd go a long way to keeping the public at large safe. As someone with mental health issues and insurance, getting adequate mental health care is a challenge. Insurance is limited in what it will cover, and it can come at great cost. A kid with a dysfunctional family is completely boned in their ability to get help. Suicide and mental health lines are great for people when they're in crisis, but long term actual treatment, that is something that is far too inaccessible for both people in the US and other countries that have public health systems (as mental health care is never properly funded).

 

You can bang on about being tough on crime, but it doesn't really work. If you've got mental health issues, you won't give two damns about the consequences and absolutely no one should be getting to that point.

 

While tough gun controls have worked well for the UK and many other countries, I genuinely think that they can only be of limited value here, especially when you are working with the confines of the 2nd Amendment. And you can't simply get rid of 2A, firstly because of the amendment ratification process- there would never be consensus for it, and also the precedent it would set. If you could remove one thing from the bill of rights, where does it stop?

 

Unfortunately background checks have had minimal impacts, he would have passed the background check, and I'm also not in favor of locking stuff at age 21, age 18 is the age of adulthood after all. The problem needs to be tackled at the root and that is mental health care. Given that there is a mental health crisis, especially with young people these days, it needs to be addressed otherwise this will keep happening. You can only do so much to keep a gun out of people's hands in the US, the better situation would be for him not to think that pulling the trigger on children would be okay.

Heck even with good insurance it is hard to get adequate mental health care. I have good insurance that has decent coverage for mental health and I can afford the co-pays for therapy sessions, but what good does that do when sessions are available only during work hours? I stopped going because I could only manage to squeeze in one session per month and that just isn't enough to really help. Meanwhile I had zero access to mental health care when I was young and really needed it. 

[Mike E 11,727]

16 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

Come to Arizona then. 

That’s the plan. 

[MarJhi 925]

11 minutes ago, Mike E said:

That’s the plan. 

Okay, come on in, but close the door behind you,  we're just about full.

 

California license plates everywhere these days, lot's of people abandoning ship it seems.

[Crazy Cat 39,745]

1 hour ago, beloved_dingo said:

I still don't understand how/why any 18 year old should be able to buy 2 very expensive and dangerous AR-15s though. Even mentally stable 18 year-olds have not matured.

Are they mature enough to vote?  The 2A and state law dictates who can purchase.

[Mike E 11,727]

1 hour ago, beloved_dingo said:

That's what makes it frustrating...there are so many factors that contribute to these situations. 

 

I still don't understand how/why any 18 year old should be able to buy 2 very expensive and dangerous AR-15s though. Even mentally stable 18 year-olds have not matured. The latest I read about the guns is that he bought them both for his 18th birthday (but the gun purchases were 3 days apart), along with a bunch of ammo. 

 

Any thoughts on raising the age to legally acquire such weapons? 

Old enough to be involuntary cannon fodder for wars on countries Korea and Vietnam that neither attacked  nor declared war on us, yet too young to buy weapons.  

[Crazy Cat 39,745]

38 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

Come to Arizona then!

 

Open carry and concealed carry are perfectly legal here assuming you are not a convicted felon and meet the age requirements. I occasionally see someone open carry, but I suspect that most of the guns around me are concealed. 

Some people would be surprised at the number of people who carry.......I'm sure that would make them "uncomfortable".  I strongly believe that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is...a good guy with a gun.  I am uncomfortable knowing my grandkids have to play hide and seek if a shooter enters their school.

[Mike E 11,727]

A society has three variables:

 

guns, tyranny, and crime 

 

I think the best combination is no gun rights, no tyranny, and no crime. 
 

But if there is tyranny or crime, then I want gun rights. 
 

 

[beloved_dingo 1,941]

8 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Old enough to be involuntary cannon fodder for wars on countries Korea and Vietnam that neither attacked  nor declared war on us, yet too young to buy weapons.  

And yet not old enough to drink or rent a car. Personally I don't think 18 year-olds should be cannon fodder either. 

[MarJhi 925]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Some people would be surprised at the number of people who carry.......I'm sure that would make them "uncomfortable".  I strongly believe that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is...a good guy with a gun.  I am uncomfortable knowing my grandkids have to play hide and seek if a shooter enters their school.

When I worked at another grocery store, we had a female customer who came in 3 times a week and always wore a gun on her hip. On occasion a customer would flip out and ask me to ask her to leave (I was managing at that time). I had to explain this was legal in Arizona and it didn't violate store policy. I also explained to them that if they were worried about the gun they could see, they would be shocked to know how guns they have around them on a daily basis that they don't see.

[Crazy Cat 39,745]

People keep crying about the lack of mental health access.......but  forcing someone to accept current mental health therapy is not that easy.   How many of these shooters wanted help, yet were denied?  

Edited May 27, 2022 by Crazy Cat

[beloved_dingo 1,941]

5 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

People keep crying about the lack of mental health access.......but it forcing someone to accept current mental health therapy is not that easy.   How many of these shooters wanted help, yet were denied?  

Also true and why I don't think reducing the issue to mental health care is particularly helpful. People have to want help in most cases to get help, and if the issues begin before the age of 18, the parents/legal guardians are involved. If someone is already from a rough familial background, what is the likelihood that family is going to drive their child to appointments, pay for therapy, pick up prescriptions, or whatever else is needed?

 

We do need better mental health care, more resources/more access, less stigma, etc. but that isn't a solution to this specific problem, on the whole. 

 

Having psychologists in schools would help though. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by beloved_dingo