NJ Driver's License awaiting K1 AOS

[EmptySeats 49]

I'll keep this as short as possible because the details can get overly nuanced - but my wife is attempting to get a driver's permit (she was not a driver in Ecuador so can't just use a foreign license) and state ID. The goal was that while she awaits her EAD (Sent 9/30, NOA1 is 10/14) she can be learning to drive with me. After three months of practice she could sit for her real license.

 

The first time we went, in early November, the representative understood K-1 totally and said he will start a case for her and check with USCIS - and to expect a call in 3 days or less when her name was cleared by USCIS. He started a case and said USCIS would be contacted. He said the marriage license, visa, proof of health insurance, passport, bank statement, proof of social security number (she has one), and I-797(NOA) were enough. He said, rightfully, that an expired I-94 is totally acceptable with a K-1 visa because of it's 90-day nature - and that this "happens all the time".

 

We didn't hear from the DMV - and since you sit on hold forever, reaching anyone on the phone takes almost as long as going in person. We decided to just go in person with all the necessary documents. Unfortunately, that same knowledgable representative was no where to be found, and we got a different representative who said they absolutely cannot issue you an ID or permit or license with an expired I-94. This woman that she'll have to wait until she gets her green card because an expired I-94 cannot be used under any circumstances. We asked to speak to the manager, who told us the same thing - but said a work authorization would also work (we never mentioned that she also applied for EAD since it would give them the opportunity to say "it's only a few months". We'd rather them think they are causing us a year of delays. It's better for your leverage as a customer).

 

I followed all of the NJ MVC advice given in another VJ post that I'll attach to the end of the post. I used the same (Lawrence, NJ) MVC that the poster said to use. Of course that was 2018 and personnel changes all the time. The person in that post was able to do exactly what the first representative told us was possible - using a marriage license, K1 visa, passport, and expired I-94 to prove you are here legally and able to get a state ID/license in NJ. It's just a matter of getting them to understand this, or finding someone who does.

 

Does anyone have any experience in being able to get anything from motor vehicles in NJ (or even another state if it's relevant)? We were thinking of calling USCIS to get some sort of letter, but I don't know if their folks even have the time to do that stuff.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by EmptySeats

[JeanneAdil 6,191]

always go directly to the DMV web page for the best info

 

Note: Prior to issuing any document, the Motor Vehicle Commission will use the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) system to verify the immigration status of all non-citizens who apply for or renew a driver’s license or non-driver ID at an agency. If legal immigration status cannot be confirmed, the document will not be issued.

You must also provide proof by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, authorizing your presence in the country and confirming validity of your foreign license. If you cannot show proof of driving experience you will be subject to the GDL Program requirements.

 

so,  she will have to take the GDL Program and then go for vision test and take the written test (she can study for that online)

 

and no,  she can not practice driving with you until she has a learner's permit 

 

https://www.state.nj.us/mvc/drivertopics/noncitizens.htm#:~:text=In order the obtain the,validity of your foreign license.

[EmptySeats 49]

15 minutes ago, JeanneAdil said:

always go directly to the DMV web page for the best info

 

Note: Prior to issuing any document, the Motor Vehicle Commission will use the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) system to verify the immigration status of all non-citizens who apply for or renew a driver’s license or non-driver ID at an agency. If legal immigration status cannot be confirmed, the document will not be issued.

You must also provide proof by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, authorizing your presence in the country and confirming validity of your foreign license. If you cannot show proof of driving experience you will be subject to the GDL Program requirements.

 

so,  she will have to take the GDL Program and then go for vision test and take the written test (she can study for that online)

 

and no,  she can not practice driving with you until she has a learner's permit 

 

https://www.state.nj.us/mvc/drivertopics/noncitizens.htm#:~:text=In order the obtain the,validity of your foreign license.

We understand all of this.

 

They won't verify her ID because of the expired I-94, which is the problem. They are not completing the SAVE process, on their end. They deny it even exists (except that first representative) and say that an expired I-94 is worthless to even check. Total dismissal of all the documents once they see an expired I-94.

 

Obviously she can't drive with me without getting a permit and vision test - that's the whole reason I made this post. I went to the MVC, and I am posting here, because she needs a permit. If she could drive without a permit I wouldn't have any questions lol.

 

So we don't really need to understand the process, we want to understand how to make it work for us when the motor vehicle workers don't know.

 

Thanks!

Edited November 22, 2020 by EmptySeats

[EmptySeats 49]

24 minutes ago, JeanneAdil said:

so,  she will have to take the GDL Program and then go for vision test and take the written test (she can study for that online)

 

What do you mean take the GDL program? The GDL is NJ's graduated driver's program and then take the tests? The GDL is the ENTIRE process of getting your vision tested, getting a learner's permit, taking the written test (for which she has studied a lot), using your permit for 3/6 months depending on your age, taking the road test, getting a basic license, and then getting a license with all privileges. We are in the beginning of that process and can't get a foot in the door.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

Edited November 22, 2020 by EmptySeats

[JeanneAdil 6,191]

3 hours ago, EmptySeats said:

What do you mean take the GDL program? The GDL is NJ's graduated driver's program and then take the tests? The GDL is the ENTIRE process of getting your vision tested, getting a learner's permit, taking the written test (for which she has studied a lot), using your permit for 3/6 months depending on your age, taking the road test, getting a basic license, and then getting a license with all privileges. We are in the beginning of that process and can't get a foot in the door.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

As it says in the site specific for immigrants if she does not have a foreign license 

You must also provide proof by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, authorizing your presence in the country and confirming validity of your foreign license. If you cannot show proof of driving experience you will be subject to the GDL Program requirements.

 

that is right from the NJ DMV site

 

[SteveInBostonI130 3,319]

There seems to be miscommunication here.

 

The OP is stating that they are going through the GDL process, or at least want to.

 

JeanneAdil is stating that, according to NJ MVC (it is not DMV in NJ), that the immigrant's status has to be verified by checking the SAVE system.  That system should have updated immigration status, regardless of I-94.

 

[EmptySeats 49]

1 hour ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

There seems to be miscommunication here.

 

The OP is stating that they are going through the GDL process, or at least want to.

 

JeanneAdil is stating that, according to NJ MVC (it is not DMV in NJ), that the immigrant's status has to be verified by checking the SAVE system.  That system should have updated immigration status, regardless of I-94.

 

I understand that SAFE should approve her, but they refuse to even acknowledge that there's a SAFE system as soon as they see the expired i-94 (which they ask to see). Their attitude is that with no work visa and no green card, you can't do anything having to do with MVC. Right or wrong that's what they say and I don't know how to get around it.

 

We all know she is legally here, just trying to get the ID/permit/etc. Just asking how you break through. I understand the entire process just not how to get the civil servants to serve us right as they have for others in the past - like the guy in the thread i posted.

Edited November 23, 2020 by EmptySeats

[Ryan H 3,790]

Moved from K1 Process & Procedures to Moving to the US and Your New Life In America forum.

[Gomast 65]

9 hours ago, EmptySeats said:

I understand that SAFE should approve her, but they refuse to even acknowledge that there's a SAFE system as soon as they see the expired i-94 (which they ask to see). Their attitude is that with no work visa and no green card, you can't do anything having to do with MVC. Right or wrong that's what they say and I don't know how to get around it.

 

We all know she is legally here, just trying to get the ID/permit/etc. Just asking how you break through. I understand the entire process just not how to get the civil servants to serve us right as they have for others in the past - like the guy in the thread i posted.

I was in a similar situation in Florida. DMV requested to see my EAD, which hasn’t been approved since my application submission back in 2019. My I-94 expired more than a year ago. One DMV employee denied my request and told me that I would need an EAD to apply for drivers license.

After a year without an EAD, I went to another DMV appointment. This time I was able to obtain my license by showing the expired I-94, AOS application (I-485) and NOA1 for the I-485, without EAD. 

[Kel_H 41]

Maybe try going again, say you forgot the I-94, then tell them they can look it up in the SAVE system. This way they won't "see" the expired I-94.

[Calicolom 265]

18 hours ago, EmptySeats said:

We understand all of this.

 

They won't verify her ID because of the expired I-94, which is the problem. They are not completing the SAVE process, on their end. They deny it even exists (except that first representative) and say that an expired I-94 is worthless to even check. Total dismissal of all the documents once they see an expired I-94.

 

Obviously she can't drive with me without getting a permit and vision test - that's the whole reason I made this post. I went to the MVC, and I am posting here, because she needs a permit. If she could drive without a permit I wouldn't have any questions lol.

 

So we don't really need to understand the process, we want to understand how to make it work for us when the motor vehicle workers don't know.

 

Thanks!

I mostly live in colombia. No colombian ID no drivers license. Same as in Ecuador.

[Loren Y 2,731]

This is how it works in most states ( Other than California, you don't even have to be in the US legally and they hand out drivers license like candy on Halloween). Same here in Nevada as what you are going thru. My wife got her first ID a few weeks after entering and we had her social security card. Just needed I-94, Passport, 2 utility bills ( To get Real ID). They were able to check her in the SAVE system in about 30 seconds. Going without the I-94 won't matter, as the expiration date is in the SAVE system. Since you waited until the I-94 was expired, you will have to wait until you get EAD or AP card and go back. My wifes first ID was only good for about 80 days as it expired when the I-94 did. Her second ID was only good for about a year until her EAD/AP card expired. She wasn't able to get a full term ( 8 Year) ID until she had her green card. You are currently in the states eyes not here legally. Your legal resident stay ended with the expiration of the I94. You now have a letter( I-797) giving you authorized stay until your AOS is adjudicated.It is just authorized stay, it is not Legal residence. I tried multiple times, and even drove to the main DMV office in Carson City ( 8 Hour drive), and spoke to the director of the DMV. And she pointed out the exact same thing posted here...

19 hours ago, JeanneAdil said:

Note: Prior to issuing any document, the Motor Vehicle Commission will use the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) system to verify the immigration status of all non-citizens who apply for or renew a driver’s license or non-driver ID at an agency. If legal immigration status cannot be confirmed, the document will not be issued.

You must also provide proof by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, authorizing your presence in the country and confirming validity of your foreign license

The SAVE System will not update again until you are issued your EAD/AP card, and again when you get your Green Card. The I-797 granting you authorized stay is just that, it does not convey any legal residential status, so the SAVE system does not update when you get it. You are probably out of luck with getting anything from the DMV.

[SteveInBostonI130 3,319]

I looked into this as well, and MA RMV's requirement are similar to what @Loren Y stated (for Nevada).  

 

Per MA RMV website:

 

Quote

Lawful presence documents

Whether you’re getting a REAL ID or a Standard driver's license/ID, you’ll need one of these:

• Valid, unexpired U.S. passport or passport card
  • If your U.S. passport was issued within the last six months, bring your certified copy of your U.S. birth certificate
• Original or certified version of U.S. birth certificate that meets the following requirements:
  • Issued by the city, county, or state of birth
  • Lists applicant’s full name, date of birth, and place of birth
  • Lists parent(s)’ full names
  • Has the signature of the city, county, or state registrar
  • Has the date filed with registrar’s office (must be within one year of birth)
  • Has the seal of issuing authority
  • A Puerto Rican birth certificate will only be accepted if it was issued on or after July 1, 2010. For more information on the Puerto Rican birth certificate law, visit the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration website. 
• Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) issued by the U.S. Department of State, Form FS-240, DS-1350, or FS-545
• Valid, unexpired Permanent Resident Card (Form I-551) issued by DHS or INS
• Temporary I-551 stamp in foreign passport
• Unexpired employment authorization document (EAD) issued by DHS, Form I-766, or Form I-688B
• Unexpired foreign passport with a valid, unexpired U.S. visa affixed
  • A non-US passport must contain a current visa and be presented with an I-94 Record of Arrival and Departure, unless you have a Permanent Resident Card or other change in status. The I-94 can be either a paper version from U.S. Customs and Border Protection or a printout of an electronic version downloaded from their website.
  • For applicable customers who have a Certificate of Eligibility (I-20) or Certificate of Eligibility for Exchange Visitor Status (DS-2019) documentation verifying the applicant's most recent admittance into the United States must be shown
• Certificate of Citizenship, Form N-560, or Form N-561, issued by DHS
• Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550 or N-570)
• Re-Entry Permit (I-327) - accepted for Standard credential only
• Refugee Travel Document (I-571) - accepted for Standard credential only

 

Note that the list above does not include I-797.  As Loren Y stated, that only allows authorized stay and does not confer legal residence status.

 

Per NJ Real ID requirements (I assume requirements are same for standard driver's license):

 

 

 

I guess we can add this issue to one of the downsides of K1 vs CR1 (temporary I-551 stamp is accepted).

 

[Villanelle 4,121]

@EmptySeats 

 

What valid documents do you currently have? I think the part you are getting stuck on is the fact that certain things are only valid for certain period of times. So whats true one day (when something is valid) can be impossible the next day when the doc is no longer valid.

 

A few things to consider. Each state handles their DMV stuff their own way. Every DMV (or BMV or MVC or whatever they call it in that state) but every one in the state should follow the same guidelines. Some offices are better at understanding the guidelines and more helpful then others. There is also something known as Real ID. Thats a federal program thanks to Homeland Security thats been around since early 2000s I think. I believe they are pushing to have Real ID required for everyone in every state by the end of 2021. The 'Real ID' has stricter universal guidelines of what you need to show to get one issued and eventually you are suppose to be required to have one to fly domestically. Some states are doing Real IDs only. Some do a combo of Real ID and regular drivers licenses and are campaigning to encourage those with standard licenses to switch to Real ID. Other states like CA have additional programs for those with no status to get DLs! 

 

I believe NJ does both Real IDs and standard DLs.  Its common for those w/o GCs (but have status) to get limited term DLs. The expiration on the DL is usually matched to the dates on your valid status. So in the scenario you described above (getting the DL or permit with the K) would have allowed them to issue her a DL/permit but it would have expired when the i94 did. Some states do not issue limited term DLs if you have 6 months or less of time left, some do. 

 

Your problem right now is similar to those who didnt get their SSN issued before the i94 expires. Its related to the SAVE system. The SAVE system is what agencies use to verify ones immigration status. When you come on the K you get the i94 for 90 days. For those 90 days you are valid in the SAVE system. Once your i94 expires you are NOT. You are considered to be in a 'period of auth stay' which is not a legal status. Its a limbo period in which you have petitions to adjust status pending so they allow you to stay but they dont give you any kind of status. Its an awkward situation and no one really cares enough to change it because it doesnt impact enough people to matter to most. 

 

Once you submit your AOS package you get the NOA. Some agencies will accept the NOA but most will not because as I said the NOA does not 'activate you' in the SAVE system. When your EAD is issued you are updated in the SAVE system. If your wife filled out her AOS package using your last name as her new name her EAD will be issued in the new name and entered into the SAVE system. She can bring her EAD and use that to get the DL. (the petition for the EAD is the 765, the actual EAD card is the 766 so when you look at the requirements keep that in mind. EAD card=766, GC=551) Her DL expiration term may be linked to her EAD validity so 1 year. If she does not have her GC by then she can renew her DL with the EAD extension.  

 

I know I wrote a lot of stuff that is just general information for context- the main point is as a K one has valid status from when they enter until the i94 expires. They then are in a period of auth stay (no official status), and then once the EAD is issued they are considered to have valid status (EAD holder) and will be active in the SAVE system as such. And then when the GC is finally issued they will be considered to have active valid status in the SAVE system as a 551 GC holder. 

 

[George & Roth 1,485]

Hi @EmptySeats I am the one who made that thread in 2018 and was able to successfully help my wife get her NJ driving license. We had a similar experience that the response would vary depending on the staff member you were able to speak with. We would get one answer on the phone and another at an MVC location. We would call again and get a different answer and head to a different MVC location for some other response.  

 

When she was approved she had the expired I-94 so they used the NOA 1 she received for the conditional green card. 

 

Note that a different location suggested we could not use the NOA 1 and needed EAD. I debated even applying for EAD as she wouldn't be working right away and rather watching our young children. Either way, as you said one of the locations did accept her NOA 1.  Vision test, written test yes. No driving test for her required. She is Cambodian so I think it varies by country of citizenship. 

 

We are dreading her driving license expiring in February and dealing with MVC again, I am about to apply the I-751 in middle of December. Especially as the lines seem to be insane now. 

 

As I see it you have two courses of action:

1) Continue to visit locations and hope you receive an answer you like. You run a significant risk of getting nowhere and wasting many hours of time

2) Wait until you get EAD