Republican Steve King: if not for incest and rape 'would there be any population left?'

[laylalex 7,247]

 

36 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

If I were a woman, this is the point where I would say "You don't know me. You're not a woman. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be a woman."

 

So... you don't know me. You're not a man. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be a man. The responsibility to protect, provide, accommodate, and navigate the torturous social routes set forth for us by the fairer sex. One slip up and you're finished. Actually... it doesn't even take a slip up. It takes a vengeful female to make an accusation, and you're done. Because #metoo carries more weight now than "innocent until proven guilty." It is exhausting to be a man.

 

The patriarchy is mostly gone. Yes, there's the odd old boys club here and there, but the patriarchy has mostly-figuratively had its bollocks snipped. Because as I said, it takes one vengeful female to utterly destroy a man and his reputation. I do understand this is, and will be, a very unpopular opinion with some here, but it is most definitely my experience. I have seen it first hand.

 

I recall you posting some time ago about an incident with an employee who misread the back massages you were giving to an underling the wrong way, and another one who made some sort of accusation and was trying to extort money from you. But you got out of those just fine, didn't you? Those accusations didn't affect you at all at work or personally, did they? There are no "torturous social routes" created by women -- it's called being a decent human being and treating women as equals. It's not so very hard.  Is it true that some men have faced false accusations and been brought low? Yes. But -- and I ask in all seriousness here -- what is the middle path? Do we go back to not believing women? Hell, I don't even think we've left the "not believing women" station. I have seen a good friend of mine treated like dirt by the LAPD when she was sexually assaulted. She was not believed, because she has what some might call a "colorful" attitude to dating. 

 

36 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

This is not male dominance. This is despicable behavior by despicable individuals. There are females who poison their children because they (the female) are starved for attention. I do not draw the conclusion that all women are bad mothers.

Lol at the repeated use of females!  I know your type.

 

And yes, there ARE women who poison their children because the mother is starved for attention. I saw it in my own marriage -- my former MIL is a monster of the first order. She deprived her son of the love and attention he so desperately wanted from her, and when she DID pay attention to him, it was to tell him that he needed to be careful because women were not to be trusted. Sorry, females. She poisoned his brain, filling him up with nonsense about how he was so so so superior to all other children. She made him focus solely on her approval, which she gave and withdrew as she wished. Why? I tend to think it was because she was neglected herself by her husband, who was always away and never around to provide her with any companionship. Sad, really. She lives in California now -- I make a point of never going to Newport Beach because I never want to see her again! But I don't draw the conclusion that all women are bad mothers -- mine is mostly a saint. 😇

 

But Boris, what would you think if your new girlfriend, or whatever she is, was getting catcalled all the time, harassed and condescended to? Don't you see these acts as being part of the patriarchal BS we still have in this country?

[yuna628 9,528]

4 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

Well, at the time, my choice was to use the hospital and comply with their rules, or keep me jewels intact.  I opted to follow their rules.

 

I'd hope a woman would tell her husband about choices such as BC, tubligations, or abortion.  To hide it from him, IMO, simply means she is willing to lie to him.

 

And if she will lie about one thing, she will be likely to lie about other things.  Not a very smart way to behave in a

relationship that (again, IMO) requires trust and honesty.   Glad I was never married to a woman who was willing to hide that sort of thing from me.

Sure, and that's fine. You chose to follow their rules, but you had the option to try elsewhere.

 

And yes, I would hope that a wife would tell her husband these things and vice versa. I think most couples in a loving relationship do. There are no secrets between me and my husband. He actually encouraged me to go seek treatment, was by my side at every painful exam, and we discuss treatment options and side effects. In fact, before diagnosis I had already suspected that having children would be difficult. I wanted to make him aware of that even before we got married. Couples in loving relationships also have to make decisions about abortions too, in particular when the baby is not viable, or miscarrying, or the life of the mom is at risk.

 

Bad relationships are bad relationships (and often abusive), if there is no trust and a lot of hiding going on... there's not a lot you can do. Some women do what they have to do to protect themselves.. it's not ideal or normal.

 

3 hours ago, Boris Farage said:

Sadly this is a growing problem in England as well. Men are become second class citizens, everything we say or do is somehow sexist, and god forbid we hold a door for the fairer sex. Men lose child custody at abnormal rates and nobody blinks an eye. And don't even get me started on #metoo.

 

I saw some internet meme that said "strong women intimidate weak men." Imagine saying the reverse: "strong men intimidate weak women." You'd be stoned and run out of town. The double standard is very real, and men have gotten the short end of the stick.

Strong men don't intimidate any woman. A strong man is one that is honorable, respectful, and confident enough to not be insecure or paranoid that women are out to get him. They are loving, understanding, and open people. They do not put their needs above their woman nor do they put her needs above his - they come at a relationship with fairness, mutual decisions, discussions, and trust. I suspect that UK women can be a little different than those on this side of the pond, at least from my personal observation and meaning no offense (a little bolder and focused on other things, while men are a little more reserved) and I am told (though don't know if this is true) that US ladies are a little more attentive and appreciative of polite behavior. But as I said, you seem like you need to hang around a different crowd of ladies, if the current ones don't provide what you're looking for.

 

16 minutes ago, laylalex said:

 

 

And yes, there ARE women who poison their children because the mother is starved for attention. I saw it in my own marriage -- my former MIL is a monster of the first order. She deprived her son of the love and attention he so desperately wanted from her, and when she DID pay attention to him, it was to tell him that he needed to be careful because women were not to be trusted. Sorry, females. She poisoned his brain, filling him up with nonsense about how he was so so so superior to all other children. She made him focus solely on her approval, which she gave and withdrew as she wished. Why? I tend to think it was because she was neglected herself by her husband, who was always away and never around to provide her with any companionship. Sad, really. She lives in California now -- I make a point of never going to Newport Beach because I never want to see her again! But I don't draw the conclusion that all women are bad mothers -- mine is mostly a saint. 😇

 

Unfortunately, a lot of problems that people have in their relationships can actually boil down to how they were raised or how their parents treated them. Some overcome... some don't. My sister goes through this all the time with her husband.

[Boris Farage 353]

27 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I recall you posting some time ago about an incident with an employee who misread the back massages you were giving to an underling the wrong way, and another one who made some sort of accusation and was trying to extort money from you. But you got out of those just fine, didn't you? Those accusations didn't affect you at all at work or personally, did they?

Yes, it was a nightmare. And I want to make this perfectly clear: it was consensual. Not consensual in some tawdry manner, but consensual between two professional co-workers who are just very comfortable with being around each other. Nothing sexual. And yes, I feel that if this had been right in the middle of the #metoo feeding frenzy, I would have been utterly ruined, despite having done nothing wrong. I "got out of it just fine" as you say, because cooler heads prevailed. The country wasn't in hysteria, and the extortionist harpy (whoever she was, I never found out) crawled back in her cave. But those accusations did affect me. There was, and now is, a gulf between myself and my co-workers that wasn't there before. Of necessity.

 

34 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I don't even think we've left the "not believing women" station. I have seen a good friend of mine treated like dirt by the LAPD when she was sexually assaulted. She was not believed, because she has what some might call a "colorful" attitude to dating.

Time for another unpopular opinon, I'm sure. I do not believe any woman deserves violence against her, period, full stop. You know this, we've discussed it. But I do wish women would take the advice of their mothers, not to put themselves in dangerous situations or dress in a manner that would invite violence. There are unfortunately people who see this as open season as it were. I do not wish to see these women harmed, so I do wish they would take precautions.

 

37 minutes ago, laylalex said:

But Boris, what would you think if your new girlfriend, or whatever she is, was getting catcalled all the time, harassed and condescended to? Don't you see these acts as being part of the patriarchal BS we still have in this country?

As I say, there are terrible people out there. Men and women both. I would not want any woman to endure such treatment, especially a woman under my care. But as I mentioned, I do not see this as "the patriarch." I see this as deviant.

 

20 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Strong men don't intimidate any woman.

But do you support the message then that "strong women intimidate weak men "? Because that would be a double-standard.

 

22 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

A strong man is one that is honorable, respectful, and confident enough to not be insecure or paranoid that women are out to get him. They are loving, understanding, and open people. They do not put their needs above their woman nor do they put her needs above his - they come at a relationship with fairness, mutual decisions, discussions, and trust.

Believe it or not, this describes me perfectly. I'm not paranoid that women are out to get me. I'm concerned that a system of bias against men has been created from hysteria. The most recent Supreme Court nominee hearings, for example. A man was completely slandered and almost lost a job he is imminently qualified for, based on absolutely no evidence.

 

24 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

But as I said, you seem like you need to hang around a different crowd of ladies, if the current ones don't provide what you're looking for.

Fair. And I do. I've mentioned before that I am traditional, and one of the many qualities I look for in my woman is compatibility with my own traditional values. Unfortunately, in the case of my ex-wife, she gave lip service to my values until the ring was secure. I'm not paranoid, but I do look out for myself now, more than before. What doesn't kill you and all that.

[yuna628 9,528]

14 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

 

But do you support the message then that "strong women intimidate weak men "? Because that would be a double-standard.

 

 

I think it is overall a silly message in general. People are people - each with different personalities. There are some women and men that do not stand up for themselves. In some environments a woman that tends to be bolder, stand up for herself especially in a workplace - are considered ''strong''... but I wouldn't call it that, I'd say you were simply not allowing yourself to be a doormat. No one should be a doormat, regardless of sex. I tend to get along better with men, as I'm told I'm a good listener, and I try and take a genuine interest in their lives and have little time for female pecking order that can sometimes arise. At the same time I can also be shy and reserved up front - not probably what some would consider 'strong' at face value. I come from a long line of 'strong women' - women that were tough and lived through war and loss, raised families, and beat the odds. Some were rough around the edges like my mom and grandma and others were sweet and amazing like my g-grandma. And they valued the things that I said make up a strong man, while at the same time living up to those same values.

 

My husband often attends board meetings. The women there sometimes become flustered, very protective and hostile, because they see a lot of the men very dismissive of their ideas (really they will dismiss anyone's ideas). Sometimes he will try and interject and make a point to get their input or speak up for them. Are they weak? Don't think so, I just think that the rest of the people in the room lack mutual respect. Some just don't care about being nice to anyone. Then there is one woman who is so dismissive, so hostile, and so borderline abusive - that everyone is terrified of her. She treats my husband and any employee she comes in contact with like a slave. Is she strong? Certainly not. I'm sure she thinks she is. Women and men often get off at being in charge or.. shall we say, being controlling of others.

 

At the same time I have seen some men, and been in a relationship with one at some point - that cared more about what he thought made a 'strong man' - which was making himself look good on the outside to hide all the ugly on the inside. He was paranoid, untrusting, and delusional. And.. there was a lot that was deeply ugly. His life experiences made him believe that women were ultimately lowly and easy to abuse because that is what his father taught him. His apologies were dishonest and his niceness was a façade. He hurt people and he enjoyed it. For a long time I fooled myself, that if I loved him enough and showed him enough kindness he would truly love me back, until I got smart and realized this was neither a strong man nor a weak man (though maybe some would use that term) but a dangerous person that no longer deserved my affection because they would never truly return it.

 

These sayings often appear because there was a time when women's opinions were never valued or respected. We did not have equality. And to some degree we feel we still have to fight for that, because there are still men out there that do not value or respect us - and sometimes those people are in positions of power. People, I suspect like Steve King... who thinks he is a lot more powerful than he is. Is he a weak man? Can't say, but he surely is as dumb as a box of rocks.

[Shiran 1,134]

5 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Can't say, but he surely is as dumb as a box of rocks.

I, personally, always found people in power, especially elected officials as stupid to be a disservice. For one, it makes it easier to dismiss and ignore them as public basks in their own sophisticated cleverness, and as a result they are left to their own devices, free to do whatever, and vote, and appoint judges accordingly. I suspect the scary truth is he is actually doing his job and accurately represents the view of majority of his voting constituents. Heck, he might even believe it himself. Though it is never good too assume what politicians, or public personas truly believe. 

[TBoneTX 43,058]

10 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

I'd hope a woman would tell her husband about choices such as BC, tubligations, or abortion.

Not doing so would be (to me) a clear sign of a hosed*marriage, one going down the tubes*.

Same thing if a husband unilaterally got a vasectomy.

    *Pun intended but not intended.

[yuna628 9,528]

8 hours ago, Shiran said:

I, personally, always found people in power, especially elected officials as stupid to be a disservice. For one, it makes it easier to dismiss and ignore them as public basks in their own sophisticated cleverness, and as a result they are left to their own devices, free to do whatever, and vote, and appoint judges accordingly. I suspect the scary truth is he is actually doing his job and accurately represents the view of majority of his voting constituents. Heck, he might even believe it himself. Though it is never good too assume what politicians, or public personas truly believe. 

That's certainly possible, though many who had previously voted for him are unhappy with him now, and his views don't seem to reflect theirs, at least on this subject. But certainly his idiotic viewpoint is one I have heard before, so he's sure to have similar minded support from somewhere.

 

And Boris: Further reflection upon something: There are people who think in terms of social Darwinism - weak vs strong. There are many that think themselves mighty and strong with massive egos and like to project weakness upon others via bullying, emotional/psychological/physical abuse, belittling, and other methods. It is not that this person is strong and the other person is weak though, it's just a psychological tactic to control other people. It says more about the person who thinks they are strong and less about the person they call weak. And another point... you said that it is hard being a man because there are so many 'norms' and things a man 'must be. You said these rules are set by women. I would argue it is not that they are set by women (if it is then you are around the wrong women again)... these rules, as you put it are a long standing societal 'rule' which should probably stop. It's not too different than ones that are set for women. For instance society tells us how women should look, think, and act in order to find a man, to keep a man, or how to essentially *be* a woman. Magazines and Hollywood tell us how to be beautiful, sets us up for false expectations, convinces us that men should be simultaneously be desired but also distrusted. They tell us to go love a bad boy but recoil when we find abuse in dark places. These societal norms for both men and women often leave both sexes confused, unhappy, and feeling inadequate. Men do not have to be the be all and end all protectors and providers, the guy who pulls out our chair or opens the door unless they wish to be out of their own free will and not because of some traditional role hammered into them from birth. They do not have to wear a certain color to be manly or only be interested in guns, cars, and boobs. We are each individuals, unique, and full of potential to be somebody. We could all do with a lot more kindness.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

23 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

Fair enough.  I have no idea if that facility still requires spousal consent today.  And you cannot be expected to know what all doctors require for such.

 

But I think it IS rather hypocritical that I had to have her consent to get snipped, but she could get an abortion and never inform me.  Hopefully that has changed currently. 

   They very well may. If everybody signs it, they will continue the practice. Conversely If enough people went elsewhere on principle, they would probably have to change. When it comes down to it, physician practices are businesses after all, so the ultimate adage still holds true - the customer is always right. Although often that is not apparent until you don't have enough customers left. 

[Shiran 1,134]

2 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

the customer is always right.

This used to be true in small communities, with simple products, and well informed customers. Nowadays, it is something else. Astroturfed reviews, and ratings, mystery badges like "Amazon Top Seller!" and pretty pictures on Social Media tell people what they customers exactly what they need to do in order to be right. 

[Shiran 1,134]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Magazines and Hollywood tell us how to be beautiful, sets us up for false expectations, convinces us that men should be simultaneously be desired but also distrusted. They tell us to go love a bad boy but recoil when we find abuse in dark places. These societal norms for both men and women often leave both sexes confused, unhappy, and feeling inadequate. Men do not have to be the be all and end all protectors and providers, the guy who pulls out our chair or opens the door unless they wish to be out of their own free will and not because of some traditional role hammered into them from birth. They do not have to wear a certain color to be manly or only be interested in guns, cars, and boobs. We are each individuals, unique, and full of potential to be somebody. We could all do with a lot more kindness.

Does Hollywood really dictate that, or does Hollywood merely reflects the ideal of what people want to see at a given snapshot of culture and time? Notice I said ideal, not the reality. The thing is, we as humans, even introverted ones, always lived in tribes and groups. We are also VERY good at seeing patterns. It helped us to survive in the wild. But now pattern recognition can lead us astray. Which is why so many crave things like Astrology, Tarots, etc things that are getting their 2nd wind nowadays. Identifying and following patterns of behavior displayed but what perceived as successful individual, then trying to emulate is what leads to it. That is how you get things like Aussie woman spending $20K on Disney trip for her 300 Insta followers https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7383241/Tourist-blames-INSTAGRAM-20-000-debt-splurging-six-week-trip-US.html

[laylalex 7,247]

17 hours ago, Boris Farage said:

Fair. And I do. I've mentioned before that I am traditional, and one of the many qualities I look for in my woman is compatibility with my own traditional values. Unfortunately, in the case of my ex-wife, she gave lip service to my values until the ring was secure. I'm not paranoid, but I do look out for myself now, more than before. What doesn't kill you and all that.

Boris, you and I have spoken about this separately and I sincerely hope you have made your expectations known to this woman you've started dating (I think). You were quite young when you married, and your attitudes may have been a little more liberal (for want of a better word!) back then -- I guess what I'm trying to say is that you may have become more "traditional" over time and your ex-wife may have thought you were on the same page, only to find you had changed. Or I could be wrong! But no matter what, being clear about expectations from the start can only be a good thing if you want to avoid the mistakes you made before. 

 

17 hours ago, Boris Farage said:

Time for another unpopular opinon, I'm sure. I do not believe any woman deserves violence against her, period, full stop. You know this, we've discussed it. But I do wish women would take the advice of their mothers, not to put themselves in dangerous situations or dress in a manner that would invite violence. There are unfortunately people who see this as open season as it were. I do not wish to see these women harmed, so I do wish they would take precautions.

 

As I say, there are terrible people out there. Men and women both. I would not want any woman to endure such treatment, especially a woman under my care. But as I mentioned, I do not see this as "the patriarch." I see this as deviant.

With all due respect, it is NOT down to what a woman is wearing or where she is that makes her susceptible to being raped. It can happen to women wearing frumpy clothes. It can happen to women whom society thinks are not attractive. It can happen to women going about their daily business or simply lying in their beds or even at the hands of her spouse or significant other. It doesn't matter if she is "under your care" (what a phrase! ) or not. The only way you can definitively say it will never happen is if you lock her up, which of course is ridiculous. 

[yuna628 9,528]

20 minutes ago, Shiran said:

Does Hollywood really dictate that, or does Hollywood merely reflects the ideal of what people want to see at a given snapshot of culture and time? Notice I said ideal, not the reality. The thing is, we as humans, even introverted ones, always lived in tribes and groups. We are also VERY good at seeing patterns. It helped us to survive in the wild. But now pattern recognition can lead us astray. Which is why so many crave things like Astrology, Tarots, etc things that are getting their 2nd wind nowadays. Identifying and following patterns of behavior displayed but what perceived as successful individual, then trying to emulate is what leads to it. That is how you get things like Aussie woman spending $20K on Disney trip for her 300 Insta followers https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7383241/Tourist-blames-INSTAGRAM-20-000-debt-splurging-six-week-trip-US.html

There's often been studies about this over the years. It seems to me that Hollywood, magazines, media, fashion designers, and marketing all contribute. They sort of well, 'promote' or shall we say propagandize to the public the 'ideal'. It's all driven by $. Sex sells. Makeup sells. Women are told from an early age that these are the ideals they should try and become... and that to a great degree messes with our psychology, our confidence, and self-esteem. The same happens to men. We lose some of our identity and what makes us unique and what is truly 'you'. The early promotion of Barbie dolls to young girls told us that a woman needed to be a strangely proportioned, skinny, thigh gap, glamour queen. When feminism took into the fray, the brand changed to you can be all the same as before but then everything at once. It once said 'I don't have to be smart, just be supermodel pretty', and now says 'I can be smart, but I still have to be supermodel pretty'. Male heroes on cinema, tv, and videogames.. even superheroes are all chiseled hunks, with muscles for miles - and promote from an early age unrealistic expectations for young men. They are typically rescuing the damsel in distress, an age old trope promoted to men... and hammered into them. Films that try and twist this concept and utilize a female hero - still maintain she must be at times vapid, thin, and boundless sex appeal. People want to see it because they are subliminally told to see it, and want it from birth over the ages.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

4 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

   They very well may. If everybody signs it, they will continue the practice. Conversely If enough people went elsewhere on principle, they would probably have to change. When it comes down to it, physician practices are businesses after all, so the ultimate adage still holds true - the customer is always right. Although often that is not apparent until you don't have enough customers left. 

If you just knew how hard it was to smile some times when you are suppressing the urge to throat punch a complete idiot. There are some rare instances when they are so disrespectful or completely off the chain you invite them to leave. I have done it maybe 2 or 3 times in almost 5 years. Still have the only perfect Customer Satisfaction index in the company for the year. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, Shiran said:

This used to be true in small communities, with simple products, and well informed customers. Nowadays, it is something else. Astroturfed reviews, and ratings, mystery badges like "Amazon Top Seller!" and pretty pictures on Social Media tell people what they customers exactly what they need to do in order to be right. 

 

   It sure takes more effort nowadays. Every time I get an offer in the mail from State Farm or Verizon or Comcast, I take a minute to write a note on the business reply mail to remind them that poor service is the reason they don't have my business in the first place. That way they get to pay a few cents to get my opinion. Probably not enough to change the way they operate, but maybe it will help.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

If you just knew how hard it was to smile some times when you are suppressing the urge to throat punch a complete idiot. There are some rare instances when they are so disrespectful or completely off the chain you invite them to leave. I have done it maybe 2 or 3 times in almost 5 years. Still have the only perfect Customer Satisfaction index in the company for the year. 

 

    Well I do know that feeling NB. If you have a basement or garage, buy a heavy bag. Works wonders.