Republican Steve King: if not for incest and rape 'would there be any population left?'

[laylalex 7,245]

Just now, Boris Farage said:

I didn't mean to upset you, I was just asking the questions so I understood better. So if I do understand correctly now, you were "desperately" trying to get pregnant because having a child was very important to him, and you were taking birth control around your cycle so as not to interfere with your ability to become pregnant? Is that actually how birth control medicine works?

 

I didn't mean to imply you required your husband's legal consent in any way. Call me old fashioned, but I feel like big decisions like this should be discussed. It sounds like you might have left him out of this discussion.

Thank you for the apology. It is a sensitive subject for me -- I felt bullied into having a child. As time went on, I wanted one less and less as I recognized what a mistake it would be with this man. I told him I was ambivalent about having a child, but he was adamant. The way I used to be... I just went along. I was trying to preserve myself. If he didn't notice the packs of BC in my dresser drawer, that's on him. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

21 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

So that was one case, was it? Am I to caveat every single exception to the general statements I make? "The worst thing that can happen to a woman having unprotected sex is abortions. Oh yes, labor complications. And bed bugs. And meteors. And the estate agent popping 'round during tea. And Al Queda. And... are you still with me? Because we do have a lot of these to get through. And..."

 

  You can look up maternal mortality and morbidity rates in the USA if you are interested. By no means was it an exception. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

14 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

I guess I was just curious because you mentioned earlier that your husband really wanted a child, but that you were infertile. And now you have said you were taking birth control (if I understand correctly) during that time. So I just wondered if your husband was aware, and if he consented.

so you are saying a woman needs her husbands permission to take BC?

[yuna628 9,528]

30 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Well, yes. But sometimes things go wrong -- a woman may be taking medication that interferes with her birth control pill, or she forgets to take a pill at the right time of the day (a real issue for some of the ultra low dose pills), or a condom breaks, or any number of things may happen. You might think you are protected, but it turns out you aren't. I've been taking ultra low dose pills for years, and timing is something I need to be careful about. I can't take a higher dose, so this is the reality for me. My fiance and I are not ready to have a child (immigration issues, etc.) so I set my alarm and take it at the same time every day. There have been days I've missed, and the reality is I just have to abstain until the window of opportunity has passed. Not ideal (especially when you don't live with your significant other, and you have set times every week you see each other) but I am trying to be responsible. 

 

However, if we were to get pregnant, I would want to know a termination would be a legal possibility for me. As I said, it's not time yet for us. I don't think I need to justify being able to have this choice, even if the conception happened in a stable, loving relationship between two consenting adults. It's the law. Even if I *hadn't* used birth control, I shouldn't be shamed, and I won't be shamed, if that has to happen. But I don't take medical procedures lightly, so being vigilant about birth control is the right thing to do. For me. 

The pill is not 100% effective. In fact unless the couple abstains, no method is 100% effective. Even in cases where a woman has a health condition, where a doctor tells her she's very unlikely to ever have children, there are cases even with this condition and birth control, a baby appears. Every pill is different of course - low dosage methods are still just as effective as the higher dose, but they all rely on timing. And the pill in general can be affected by a multitude of other things, not to mention the side effects. The minipill is a safer health option, but less effective. There is further risk that if a pregnancy results on the minipill, etopic can be a probability resulting in death or abortion (an example of when abortion is very needed). There are of course many reasons why a woman would be taking a minipill vs other methods.. I often think about this when you hear cases about women who just had no clue they were pregnant. Was just one last week... a woman popped out triplets and she thought it was all just a kidney stone.

 

Abortions happen in loving and stable relationships, due to a variety of reasons - the life and health of the mom, and the extreme and eventual suffering of the baby from severe defects when they are born. There was one particularly gruesome article I read once about one hospital that refused to so much as perform any abortion even when it was clear the mother would die otherwise. They would also not perform D&Cs, to the point suffering and miscarrying women languished in agony for days before they died due to complications. It should be between the couple and their doctor, and the less government involvement in the lives of it's citizenry the better. The government cannot make it's citizens be responsible in the bedroom. It cannot force people to abstain, and cannot foresee terrible circumstances that happen to loving couples. Abortion is a needed procedure in many cases and especially when it comes to rape and incest. Is it a needed outcome in all cases, especially when it comes to young mothers that have no way to support themselves or kids, abandoned by everyone they know? No. We need to do better about that. But the statistics show not only are young people choosing to wait on babies, but there are also less overall abortions.

[yuna628 9,528]

7 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

so you are saying a woman needs her husbands permission to take BC?

It was a difficult decision for me to take BC. I knew for many years of my life that I was very unwell, and knew that this would be the solution offered. I suffered in silence, though my husband knew it bothered me greatly. I know that I will always have a fertility issue, and obviously BC will not improve that, it will only improve the pain and other risks that come along with the condition.. that being said, I am not the type of woman that wouldn't not discuss taking BC with my husband. He deserves to know and I value his opinion... but never would I ask his permission, nor would he feel it appropriate. I have been through four different drugs now, all having terrible side effects one way or another, and feel rather like a guinea pig. His opinion is I should switch to yet another drug, but he respects that I am rather sick of it all and am just going to stick with what sort of works for now.

 

A marriage is a partnership, and not a cycle of abuse and control where one lords themselves over one another.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

54 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Yes, of course this is true. And a transgender man can be impregnated by a straight man too, so?

Well. He said a man and a woman were required to conceive a baby.  That used to be true, but not anymore.  😎

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

3 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

I have never seen ANYONE on VJ speak out against abortion when it comes to rape nor to incest.  Not once in 9 years.  I believe we are all on the same sheet of music here.

I may be mistaken, but I think Danno may have had some thoughts on this. JUST SAYIN'. 

 

3 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

Show me the actual text in the constitution where the word "abortion' is written,  and I'll buy you dinner. 

 

Roe v. Wade did NOT amend the constitution,  period.  People choose to invoke the 4th in a lame attempt to call abortion a "constitutional right". 

Okay, I lol'd. It's a First/Fourteenth Amendment issue (right to private life/right to family life/Bill of Rights extended to states), not a Fourth one. Fourth is of course the right of people to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizure by the government. I'm just imagining... the government up in a lady's yoni unreasonably searching for signs of a pregnancy and then seizing it for their nefarious deep state purposes.

 

"I'M IN YR VAJAYJAY, STEALIN' YR FETUS!"

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I wish we still had the CABBA crowd around. The replies would be interesting.

DUDE I am here. The CABA signal was flashed across the screen as I was watching a daytime flick on the Lifetime Network, sipping on my chardonnay and eating Doritos.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

I may be mistaken, but I think Danno may have had some thoughts on this. JUST SAYIN'. 

 

Okay, I lol'd. It's a First/Fourteenth Amendment issue (right to private life/right to family life/Bill of Rights extended to states), not a Fourth one. Fourth is of course the right of people to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizure by the government. I'm just imagining... the government up in a lady's yoni unreasonably searching for signs of a pregnancy and then seizing it for their nefarious deep state purposes.

 

"I'M IN YR VAJAYJAY, STEALIN' YR FETUS!"

DUDE I am here. The CABA signal was flashed across the screen as I was watching a daytime flick on the Lifetime Network, sipping on my chardonnay and eating Doritos.

Fourth/fourteenth, tomato/kumquat.

 

It's not just naturalized immigrants who can get an abortion, yanno.  Have you even studied our laws???

[Boris Farage 353]

55 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

so you are saying a woman needs her husbands permission to take BC?

Permission is your word, not mine.

 

But there's no winning this argument, is there?

 

Me: women should be responsible with their bodies.

You: You're terrible, men are equally responsible.

 

Me: Men should have a say in the contraception their woman is using.

You: You're terrible, this is none of men's business.

 

[laylalex 7,245]

20 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Permission is your word, not mine.

 

But there's no winning this argument, is there?

 

Me: women should be responsible with their bodies.

You: You're terrible, men are equally responsible.

 

Me: Men should have a say in the contraception their woman is using.

You: You're terrible, this is none of men's business.

 

Why can't both these things be true, Boris? I mean, women SHOULD be responsible for their own bodies, and it is also true that men should not dictate whether or not a woman is using a form of contraception or ANY contraception. A man can always choose not to have sex with a woman whose contraceptive choices aren't ones he agrees with, after all.  

 

Edit to add: since we're poking around in each other's former marriages, were you and your ex on the same page about BC? Did you have a say in the contraception she was using? Just curious.  

Edited August 21, 2019 by laylalex
Another question!

[yuna628 9,528]

58 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

I may be mistaken, but I think Danno may have had some thoughts on this. JUST SAYIN'. 

Okay, I lol'd. It's a First/Fourteenth Amendment issue (right to private life/right to family life/Bill of Rights extended to states), not a Fourth one. Fourth is of course the right of people to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizure by the government. I'm just imagining... the government up in a lady's yoni unreasonably searching for signs of a pregnancy and then seizing it for their nefarious deep state purposes.

 

"I'M IN YR VAJAYJAY, STEALIN' YR FETUS!"

DUDE I am here. The CABA signal was flashed across the screen as I was watching a daytime flick on the Lifetime Network, sipping on my chardonnay and eating Doritos.

 

Weren't they doing that already by forcing women in some states to have transvag ultrasounds? Sounds like an unreasonable deep state search to me!

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

23 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

 

Weren't they doing that already by forcing women in some states to have transvag ultrasounds? Sounds like an unreasonable deep state search to me!

Governor Ultrasound of Virginia! Sorry, Former Governor Ultrasound of Virginia.

 

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

Fourth/fourteenth, tomato/kumquat.

 

It's not just naturalized immigrants who can get an abortion, yanno.  Have you even studied our laws???

Unfortunately, I have studied too many of them, in this country and back in Blighty, and all my brains fell out, which is why I'm still on VJ.

58 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Permission is your word, not mine.

 

But there's no winning this argument, is there?

 

Me: women should be responsible with their bodies.

You: You're terrible, men are equally responsible.

 

Me: Men should have a say in the contraception their woman is using.

You: You're terrible, this is none of men's business.

 

I seem to recall you saying you were reconnecting with an old flame back in the UK. I do hope that you have a very serious conversation with her about birth control before you go forward, and that she gets your consent to the form she (hopefully) is using.  

 

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

It was a difficult decision for me to take BC. I knew for many years of my life that I was very unwell, and knew that this would be the solution offered. I suffered in silence, though my husband knew it bothered me greatly. I know that I will always have a fertility issue, and obviously BC will not improve that, it will only improve the pain and other risks that come along with the condition.. that being said, I am not the type of woman that wouldn't not discuss taking BC with my husband. He deserves to know and I value his opinion... but never would I ask his permission, nor would he feel it appropriate. I have been through four different drugs now, all having terrible side effects one way or another, and feel rather like a guinea pig. His opinion is I should switch to yet another drug, but he respects that I am rather sick of it all and am just going to stick with what sort of works for now.

 

A marriage is a partnership, and not a cycle of abuse and control where one lords themselves over one another.

I am unable to take any hormonal BC. I tried so many different pills -- low dose, ultra low dose -- in my 20s and early 30s until my doctor spelled it out for me: you will have a stroke if you are dead set on hormonal BC. Scared the proverbial out of me. My then-husband and I had a big fight about it (because he had OPINIONS) -- he was terrified that I wouldn't get my diaphragm inserted correctly, and he refused to use condoms because... well, he IS my ex-husband now! He thought I could just go to the gym and lose another 10 lbs, get back to the weight I was when he married me and hey, Bob's yer uncle, I'd have no more hypertension. Yeah, no. I have idiopathic HBP that has nothing to do with my weight (it presented itself when I weighed 95lbs, so there you go). And if I had no HBP, I could go back on hormonal BC and he wouldn't need to worry. And because I was terrified of losing him, and because my "internal architecture" (ahem) is a bit wonky for a good fit for most diaphragms, and because he twisted my arm to just hope for the best...that's how maven ended up having to have a termination. No regrets, it would have been a bad decision for us both to go forward.

 

And that's what happens when you let a man take control of your contraceptive decisions. Now I'm just old, and a pregnancy would be a shock I could live with!  

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Boris Farage said:

Permission is your word, not mine.

 

But there's no winning this argument, is there?

 

Me: women should be responsible with their bodies.

You: You're terrible, men are equally responsible.

 

Me: Men should have a say in the contraception their woman is using.

You: You're terrible, this is none of men's business.

 

 

  Men certainly have say in contraception. Use a condom. Make one little trip to the urologist and snip a tiny little tubule. Abstain. Many direct options available to choose from. Not sure why one would approach this as if telling your wife to take a pill is the only thing you can do. 

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Men certainly have say in contraception. Use a condom. Make one little trip to the urologist and snip a tiny little tubule. Abstain. Many direct options available to choose from. Not sure why one would approach this as if telling your wife to take a pill is the only thing you can do. 

I tried this logic on Maven Husband No. 1 to zero effect. Some guys are happy to shuck all responsibility off to their wives/partners. And if you're a woman in an effed up relationship where you buy this stuff because your brain has been biffed around enough to accept it as "normal," well, it *does* become your responsibility to take control of this one thing. Do I cringe now thinking back about how I bought this? Hells yeah! I wasn't an idiot, I knew the consequences, but I was so scared of losing him I did what he wanted. He left anyway. I wish I could go back and tell little maven so many things. This is one of them: you are in charge of your own happiness. If someone you love is bullying you, do they really love you? 

 

Big feels for a Wednesday afternoon.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

14 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

I tried this logic on Maven Husband No. 1 to zero effect. Some guys are happy to shuck all responsibility off to their wives/partners. And if you're a woman in an effed up relationship where you buy this stuff because your brain has been biffed around enough to accept it as "normal," well, it *does* become your responsibility to take control of this one thing. Do I cringe now thinking back about how I bought this? Hells yeah! I wasn't an idiot, I knew the consequences, but I was so scared of losing him I did what he wanted. He left anyway. I wish I could go back and tell little maven so many things. This is one of them: you are in charge of your own happiness. If someone you love is bullying you, do they really love you? 

 

Big feels for a Wednesday afternoon.

 

   I think we all learn things like that as time goes on. Probably one of the reasons why they say youth is wasted on the young.