ethical dilemma

[doneanddusted 7]

I'm a longtime member and consider many of you good friends, but I need some anonymity in this case. I'll try to make it brief, and I don't know whether I've put this in the right place, so organizers, please move it as appropriate.

My husband came here on a spousal visa from a "high-fraud" country. He is now a LPR, and we are no longer together. We have a young daughter. I'll probably never know for certain whether I was used for papers or not. Some things I have discovered since the split lead me to believe it's likely, and I guess it's human nature to assume certain things in certain cases. I'm moving on with my own life as best I can, and I'm well aware of the obligations of the I-864. As things are going, I don't expect to be bound by that much longer. He has siblings who moved to Europe on spousal visas after he came here, and I have my doubts about the validity of at least one of those marriages, but that's not my business; it's only relevant because there's a pattern within his family, for whatever that's worth. The previous generation seems to have done something similar, though I don't know those details, so I can only speculate.

However, I've learned some other things recently, and I don't know whether I should pass this information along or let sleeping dogs lie. My husband has talked for years about bringing his sister here, trying to get her a student visa or whatnot, but he's never attempted it. A couple years ago, before we split, he mentioned outright that he had a friend from his country now living in another state who might consider marrying her for papers. I told him that would be fraud, that it could get both the guy and his sister in a world of trouble, and that I didn't want to hear any more about any such idea. He said no more to me about it. Now I have learned that the sister is engaged to a man in the U.S. and that they'd probably move to my state once she immigrated. I am not at all sure it's the same guy or even the same state because I didn't make a detailed note of the conversation and simply can't remember. However, it rings some bells. I'm told it's not for papers, but I no longer believe I'm getting the truth about anything. I don't know whether I should notify anyone about this if they do start the process. I don't want to act out of revenge, even unconsciously. And even though we don't speak now, she and I always got along well. If it's the real deal, I don't want to be responsible for keeping her from her husband (I would be very surprised if they went for a K-1 because of tradition). But if it's fraud, then it's rippling out from my own situation, and that bothers me, and a part of me just wants those ripples to stop in their tracks. I guess my own hurt still messes with my head, so I'm coming here for some objective input since I can't be sure I'm objective.

And on a related note, I believe my soon-to-be-ex is lining up a woman (or several) back home to marry and bring here once we're divorced and he's naturalized (though he hasn't stopped "dating" all the "local talent," but maybe she'll put up with that??). Again, I don't want my revenge monster calling the shots here. I don't know whether to drop a dime to ICE on this one either, if he goes through with filing. I just want to do the right thing, whatever that is. I suppose if his history of the relationship with the new homegirl mentions exactly WHEN they met online and USCIS notices it was months before our divorce, that might garner a second look or two, so maybe that's best just left alone from my end. I just don't know. And is it even necessarily fraud if a marriage doesn't work out and one partner looks for a future spouse from his own background in hopes that he'll be happier? If I didn't know for certain that he's not even being faithful to her (or her or her...) even though he swears he loves her, I might give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe love has anything to do with any of this. To be annoyingly cynical about it all, I think it's all about, "This woman can get me papers, these heathen women can show me a good time, and this woman can cook and clean just like my mommy did back home, without complaining about my extracurriculars."

I do think some of my confusion on this comes from the fact that I don't want our child exposed to this sort of narcissistic extended family who believe it's okay to use people, to use the system, if it gets you what you want. I won't try to keep her from her dad unless something drastic happens, and I know it's usually good for a child to be close to both sides of the family if possible, but if they do manage all of this, that's at least three more of his family members/in-laws in my town, and I believe they would attempt to have a strong influence on some of my parenting decisions simply because of the nature of family and other cultural elements over there. I am not at all afraid to stand up for my child's well-being as I see it, but I would sure rather not have to spend time and energy and money that are already in short supply butting heads with them if they get local on me.

I know you're only getting one side of this, and it's longer than I'd planned, but after writing all this, now I wonder if I'd be better off just saying nothing at all. It would all be hearsay, and I believe I've read many times that isn't enough to waste ICE's resources, though maybe that's more with regard to deportations rather than being allowed in in the first place. I don't think he's mentioned one word about marriage for papers in an e-mail to me. And none of the other things that I know are things that would hold up as proof; I only know because he's so darned indiscreet, and this isn't such a big town. I also don't know if he would find out I'd contacted them, and I don't want drama coming home to our child. It just, frankly, bugs the heck out of me that this stuff goes on and that I got caught in it. And yeah, sometimes I do feel like the biggest fool. FWIW, I have never had so much confidence in a man in my life. Never in a million years would I have thought he would do some of the things I now know he has done. And our process was not short. He was patient and just that good. And I guess he still is, since his own homegirls are buying his lines too. Or maybe the cycle repeats itself? They keep telling me karma is around here somewhere...

This turned into more of a vent than I'd intended, but I really would appreciate some objective input about whether or how much I should pass along to USCIS/ICE, especially from the straight-talkers. You know who you are. I can take it. Many thanks.

[Anh map 2,098]

I wouldn't dissuade you for making an appointment with a USCIS or ICE officer to lay it all out. Really isn't much more that you can do. And if it gains you peace of mind then it's probably well worth it.

Sounds like you've got it all in proper perspective. Still sucks. Still hurts. The good news is that it is also survivable.

Best to you and your daughter.

[Darnell 8,478]

IMO, as a USCitizen, the 'revenge-monster' is a non-entity. You can do what you need to do.

Good Luck !

[LBeachey 44]

I am not a long-time member but I think your only concern is your daughter and protecting her. I would consult your divorce lawyer (or an immigration lawyer) as to whether documenting your concerns with USCIS/ICE would be useful/helpful in legal matters concerning your daughter.

Short of that I think you are better off seperating yourself from the situation as best you can.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Please call ICE and let them know what you know. As suggested above, a real in-person appointment might be better. Then they can do their own investigation. Good luck.

[TBoneTX 43,019]

Please call ICE and let them know what you know. As suggested above, a real in-person appointment might be better. Then they can do their own investigation. Good luck.

This, si man. The face-to-face appointment would be better -- ask for the shift supervisor, unless your phone calls lead you to someone specific by name with whom to meet in person. Take all objective documentation with you, and perhaps even rough out a timeline of who did what to whom when.

Be prepared to state the known/actual facts, your reasonable suspicions based on the facts, and your subjective suspicions based on the pieces of the ongoing puzzle. Dividing things up this way will not only help you organize yourself for the appointment; it will also help the ICE agent make quicker and better sense of things.

Please contact ICE and let us know what happens, si man.

[myperfectflaw 11]

I have to agree with the others on this one. Inform ICE of what you know and what you believe based on other factors and let them take it from there. Hopefully, they'll look further into it. They might not. Either way, you did what you could to help prevent more fraud from happening and I think everyone that is going through this stuff legally and for the right reasons will appreciate you taking the moral stand of doing so.

[milimelo 4,167]

I'll add that besides ICE/USCIS you want to put this on the US consulate's radar of whichever country he is from - the IV address would work well if you send all you have to them. They may not reply, but they certainly could put the information aside and when the new wife comes for the visa, there could be questions for her.

[doneanddusted 7]

Thank you for the replies. I don't have much that's concrete, only what appears to be a pattern and a few offhand verbal remarks which were enough to show me that following the law may be optional in his eyes. I don't know many names.

I will start by putting together a timeline to present at an appointment, keep my emotions out of it, and leave it in their hands. This wont be immediate. I need to see if I can get some names and phone numbers. But I'll post an update when I have one. I fought like heck to get him here when I believed in his sincerity. A friend of mine did the same for her husband but jumped through even more hoops. Her husband has just moved in with mine. Funny how the wheel turns.

The one thing I do not want is for him to know that I've notified anyone. I would not care if it weren't for the child. She is registered with the State Department's passport issuance alert program - I am extra cautious where she is concerned even though so far he and I have coparented amicably. I don't speak his language and obviously missed some signs before. I don't want that to happen again. And no, I don't want to see them abuse the system if, in fact, that's what they're doing. I've been around VJ long enough to see how fraud slows things down for the legit couples. So I'll move on it.

Thanks again. Best of luck to all.

[Ironman140 45]

Have to agree here. Your first concern is the child.

Ask yourself do you want him AND his family near, you @ your child in the future. Then proceed in what is best for daughter.

I am not a long-time member but I think your only concern is your daughter and protecting her. I would consult your divorce lawyer (or an immigration lawyer) as to whether documenting your concerns with USCIS/ICE would be useful/helpful in legal matters concerning your daughter.

Short of that I think you are better off seperating yourself from the situation as best you can.

[Miss smarty pants 84]

I will start by putting together a timeline to present at an appointment, keep my emotions out of it, and leave it in their hands. This wont be immediate. I need to see if I can get some names and phone numbers. But I'll post an update when I have one. I fought like heck to get him here when I believed in his sincerity. A friend of mine did the same for her husband but jumped through even more hoops. Her husband has just moved in with mine. Funny how the wheel turns.

Wow. That really stinks for both of you. Even the thought of that makes me almost tear up for you. I'm so sorry this happened.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Moroccan-Wife

[SunnySanDiego 17]

This makes me so sad, I am sorry that it turned out this way for you . Some people are so evil . I would pass along the info and leave it in their hands and let them do with it as they will.

[NinjaLadyBug 23]

As a woman, my heart goes out to you. Although I love my husband, I've been through alot with him, and empathize completed with what you've written. I have to say from my own experience that my decision making process is very different now that I am expecting a child. Its not just about my feelings anymore - are my feelings worth jepordizing my childs relationship with his/her father? No. There is no vindication worth breaking my childs heart... I have to forgive and retreat more for the sake of my child.

You have two things to think about.

1. First and most importantly, your child. Do you truly beleive that your child would be better off without their father? This is a very serious thing to consider. Your feelings or hurt should not become more import than the landcape you are carving for your childs life with the actions you are now considering. Whatever people do to each other, children must not suffer the consequences of their parents broken heart.

2. Are you 100% certain that your gut feeling or insticts are not being clouded by your emotions? Alot of peoples lives could be at stake, particularly and MOST importantly that of your childs. I am in no way suggesting that you keep a fraud a secret if you are 100% certain that you are right and have enough proof, but I would wait a while to process your thoughts before doing anything that might jepordize your childs future. Your words are wraught with emotion, and sometimes pain makes us think things that may not be there...

He does not sound like he was a good husband or even a good guy. That does not make him a fraud - just a bad husband. It might just mean it didn't work out and you cannot concern yourself with what he's doing with any of these other women, but rather your childs stability...

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Oftentimes it helps to view something from a different prospective.

You want to save a dog. Instead of adopting one that comes with papers and has gone through proper training, you go to a shelter where they only have aggressive dogs that are basically unadoptable.

You find one you like, it looks at you with his puppy eyes, wags his tail. You take him home and treat him like a favorite child. A while later this dog bites you severely, leaves deep wounds under your skin, and after having a specialist take a closer look, you find out that this dog has indeed a history of aggression, so you picked an aggressive dog from a pool of aggressive dogs.

Surprise!

You let the dog go but now it roams the neighborhood, bites people, children, then hides again in the bushes, only waiting for the next opportunity and victim. Do you have a moral obligation to warn other people that the dog you freed is ready to attack at any time, or should you feel sorry for yourself instead?

Guess that's a question you have to answer.

[NY_BX 397]

Oftentimes it helps to view something from a different prospective.

You want to save a dog. Instead of adopting one that comes with papers and has gone through proper training, you go to a shelter where they only have aggressive dogs that are basically unadoptable.

You find one you like, it looks at you with his puppy eyes, wags his tail. You take him home and treat him like a favorite child. A while later this dog bites you severely, leaves deep wounds under your skin, and after having a specialist take a closer look, you find out that this dog has indeed a history of aggression, so you picked an aggressive dog from a pool of aggressive dogs.

Surprise!

You let the dog go but now it roams the neighborhood, bites people, children, then hides again in the bushes, only waiting for the next opportunity and victim. Do you have a moral obligation to warn other people that the dog you freed is ready to attack at any time, or should you feel sorry for yourself instead?

Guess that's a question you have to answer.

Love the analogy. Although controversial- comparing dogs to men- it's true that people who behave like that are beasts!