Men now avoid women at work – another sign we're being punished for #MeToo

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

I am more taken aback by someone bringing sex or minority status into a discussion while chastising someone by virtue of their sex and lack of minority status, sorry, that drives the winds out of your arguements for me to be taken as anything but complaint for the purpose of complaint

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

On 8/31/2019 at 1:26 PM, Bettie Page said:

I suspect this relates to serious misconduct and not some grey area of whether someone was offensive - I know you want us to believe the latter because for some reason the kind of victimization you probably deplore when women and minorities do it is something you relish for yourself

the fact is, the individual will most likely be remembered when it comes time for layoffs.  the corporate world does not take kindly to exposure to lawsuits.

[Bettie Page 118]

6 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

the fact is, the individual will most likely be remembered when it comes time for layoffs.  the corporate world does not take kindly to exposure to lawsuits.

If you think this risk works better for women and minorities than it does for white men I have news for you...

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

7 minutes ago, Bettie Page said:

If you think this risk works better for women and minorities than it does for white men I have news for you...

who said anything about white men?  are you suggesting that only white men are in a supervisory capacity?

[Bettie Page 118]

oh dear....triggered, clean up on aisle 8

[Steeleballz 7,550]

On 8/30/2019 at 11:48 PM, TBoneTX said:

Too often, the dregs of the company, the "losers," are thrown here.

 

I once briefly worked at a place where the (all-minority) HR dept. staff were openly favoring members of their own race in terms of hiring, promotion, preferential matters, etc.  Of course, no one could ever say a thing about it.

 

   Half the people we have in management shouldn't even be there. Unfortunately the other half are all best friends with the incompetent half, so they are not really going anywhere. I imagine it's the same everywhere. I hate to say, but I have seen some really good people give up and move elsewhere because they get tired of dealing with the BS.  

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Half the people we have in management shouldn't even be there. Unfortunately the other half are all best friends with the incompetent half, so they are not really going anywhere. I imagine it's the same everywhere. I hate to say, but I have seen some really good people give up and move elsewhere because they get tired of dealing with the BS.  

Sadly pretty common in corporate America

[Boiler 43,429]

Current story involving a MeToo victim, committed suicide.

 

https://nichegamer.com/2019/08/31/night-in-the-woods-dev-alec-holowka-dies-after-zoe-quinn-sexual-assault-allegations/

[Steeleballz 7,550]

9 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Current story involving a MeToo victim, committed suicide.

 

https://nichegamer.com/2019/08/31/night-in-the-woods-dev-alec-holowka-dies-after-zoe-quinn-sexual-assault-allegations/

 

   Don't know the details in this situation, but it does happen that people commit suicide when their abuse of others is discovered. Comes up sometimes with people who are caught severely abusing their children as well. Their are often mental health issues driving the behavior behind abusive situations, and sometimes they can be helped. Ultimately the abuser knows what they did is wrong. Nobody want's to see someone end their own life, but people who have been physically or sexually abused need to speak up and protect themselves first. They are not helping themselves or anyone else by remaining silent. 

 

[Boiler 43,429]

This was a social media attack and there is history.

[laylalex 7,247]

23 minutes ago, Boiler said:

This was a social media attack and there is history.

It's not quite as simple as one allegation and he took his own life. I had been reading about this yesterday on reddit, and there is an excellent (and very long) post on there from the team he was working with that covers quite a lot. It's complicated and messy, much like things with human beings can often be.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/NightInTheWoods/comments/cxqjp8/end_of_summer_backer_update/

 

 

Quote

The things that Alec did during the bad times were worse than we knew, and he's still being abusive in other ways to those around him. We didn't know. We feel like idiots. We feel betrayed. We're sad and angry. We put in the work with him during those really bad times. It's hard to talk about, and everyone really wants us to talk about it. They want detailed accountings of every aspect. Some people want to know exactly what we knew and when so they can figure out who around him is most complicit. Some people want us to give them hard evidence, as if such a thing was even possible, or as if it would appropriate to give them in the first place. Some people randomly doubt all of this because nobody had Alec arrested, which shows a weird understanding of the reality of human relationships and abuse that I can only assume comes from experience of the world via online chatter and a list of how things should work. The idea that there's a foolproof system in place that can stop this, can riddle it out, can tell us exactly who is and isn't guilty, a system which can set all this right. But it doesn't work like that in real life. Some of the demand for more info stems from the idea that if something is put out in public then any interested party is owed as much information as they want to work out their own stance and to judge ours. But at least for us the only reason we're working this out in public is because we have to. It was out there, and we've had to respond to it. Like we have to tell you now. And it's been like stabbing myself in the stomach every day to have to type words like this. To sum up- this isn't some "guilty til proven innocent" or "social media mob" thing for us. There's years of real life context to this, involving lots of people who aren't even online or public about this, and the fact that some folks just found out about it this week doesn't mean it began there. It's just when it became public.

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

This was a social media attack and there is history.

 

  Indeed. Abusive behaviors, social media flaming, probably mental health issues and an unfortunate ending. Was there something specific about this story that applies to the topic? Something we can extrapolate to a more general point? Otherwise it seems to be the opposite of the topic. The guy in the story wasn't avoiding a female co-worker . They actually got themselves into an inadvisable working situation and seemingly toxic relationship and it only got worse from there.

[Boiler 43,429]

6 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Indeed. Abusive behaviors, social media flaming, probably mental health issues and an unfortunate ending. Was there something specific about this story that applies to the topic? Something we can extrapolate to a more general point? Otherwise it seems to be the opposite of the topic. The guy in the story wasn't avoiding a female co-worker . They actually got themselves into an inadvisable working situation and seemingly toxic relationship and it only got worse from there.

I was not sure what post to go with, I am focusing on things get complicated and messy but replying to your comment.

 

Things do get complicated and messy and most people who have lived for very long have either been in such a situation or witnessed such a situation. So knowing that and knowing the significant downside even if the actual chance of it happening may be an unknown low what is the logical thing to do?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

53 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I was not sure what post to go with, I am focusing on things get complicated and messy but replying to your comment.

 

Things do get complicated and messy and most people who have lived for very long have either been in such a situation or witnessed such a situation. So knowing that and knowing the significant downside even if the actual chance of it happening may be an unknown low what is the logical thing to do?

 

    I used to suggest to LIB that a house with no doors and no windows might work well for certain situations. Beyond that IDK. Maybe not spending so much time on social media. I don't use any, and I have to say it has worked out well for me. Is someone saying something about me? I don't know, and truly, I don't care. As a throw in, I would add choose your friends wisely and you don't have to worry about how their behavior affects you. 

 

  I guess I don't get this thread really. While there are exceptions to everything, I think for the most part if we end up in bad situations, it's probably because we made poor decisions to begin with. As the article said, most men know what sexual harassment is. So do most women. It doesn't just happen. There is an active conscious component to that type of behavior. If someone is avoiding being alone with a coworker of the opposite sex without really having a reason, I have to wonder what their thought process is. It might be more about themselves than the other person.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

14 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    I used to suggest to LIB that a house with no doors and no windows might work well for certain situations. Beyond that IDK. Maybe not spending so much time on social media. I don't use any, and I have to say it has worked out well for me. Is someone saying something about me? I don't know, and truly, I don't care. As a throw in, I would add choose your friends wisely and you don't have to worry about how their behavior affects you. 

 

  I guess I don't get this thread really. While there are exceptions to everything, I think for the most part if we end up in bad situations, it's probably because we made poor decisions to begin with. As the article said, most men know what sexual harassment is. So do most women. It doesn't just happen. There is an active conscious component to that type of behavior. If someone is avoiding being alone with a coworker of the opposite sex without really having a reason, I have to wonder what their thought process is. It might be more about themselves than the other person.

I think I can safely say that (we are both males) you are alone in your thinking.

 

I, and the majority of my peers, will go out of our way to avoid being alone with our female coworkers.   It's self preservation.  One mis-step and a career can be ended.  I personally witnessed a fine man lose his career because after a party one night, he offered to walk one of his drunk female coworkers home across a busy road.  She was drunk. He had been drinking, but cared enough to see she got home safely.  

 

Well, when they got to her apartment, she crashed on the couch.  Her roommates were out.  He got a blanket from the closet, and as he was covering her up (fully clothed), she startled awake, and freaked out on him.  Called the cops and claimed attempted rape.  He went outside to wait for the police to arrive, and told them what happened.  They read the situation,  and let him go home to his wife.  The next day, the girl called the police station and withdrew her statement, admitted she was drunk and he did nothing wrong.  Lucky him, eh?

 

Not so fast.  The story followed him to work, and three days later he was terminated.  So yes, I do my best to avoid being in a situation alone with any woman, regardless how nice she is.  Even a false claim can be ruinous.  (Though one poster I  particular earlier in this thread called me out as wrong, and said some disparaging things about my beliefs, which I chose to breeze past this time.  She was wrong in what she said, but I doubt she will admit it.)

 

But back to your comment, SB, what it says about ME is that I have seen first hand what a women's false claim can do to a man's career, and I am smart enough to avoid being in such a situation.