Men now avoid women at work – another sign we're being punished for #MeToo

[yuna628 9,530]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

  We must, because the people who lament the death of chivalry because they can't hold a door open for a women are often the same people who see a homeless guy on the side of the road and complain that someone should get that bum out of sight. In short they don't really know what chivalry actually means.

 

  Chivalry was not just a code that governed the interaction between your brain and your loins.

I promise that when I hold a door open for any man, woman, or child my ladybits have nothing to do with the subject.

[Boris Farage 353]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  We must, because the people who lament the death of chivalry because they can't hold a door open for a women are often the same people who see a homeless guy on the side of the road and complain that someone should get that bum out of sight. In short they don't really know what chivalry actually means.

 

  Chivalry was not just a code that governed the interaction between your brain and your loins.

 

  I do understand the behavior you are referring to. I'm just not sure why you are calling it chivalry.

I don't think chivalry has anything to do with the homeless, especially if you're still clinging to the medieval notion of the concept. Having said that, I do have empathy for the plight of the legitimately homeless. Unfortunately there are so many so-called "homeless" who are just young adults pan handling because they can't be bothered to get a job. And as I experience this morning, where do they set themselves up? Right in front of the shops, thereby causing hardship on business owners who decided they would offer a valuable service instead of just begging for money. The chivalrous thing to do for these layabouts would be to give them a good swift kick and put them to work.

11 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I promise that when I hold a door open for any man, woman, or child my ladybits have nothing to do with the subject.

Don't be hasty, I would pay good money to see that. 😂

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I promise that when I hold a door open for any man, woman, or child my ladybits have nothing to do with the subject.

 

    Personally I don't think chivalry is dead. Just outdated as a concept and often mischaracterized. When I hear complaints of this nature (about lack of chivalry), I do think what a lot of guys are really trying to say is it's a lot harder to score at work than it used to be. 

[yuna628 9,530]

1 minute ago, Boris Farage said:

 

Don't be hasty, I would pay good money to see that. 😂

 

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Personally I don't think chivalry is dead. Just outdated as a concept and often mischaracterized. When I hear complaints of this nature (about lack of chivalry), I do think what a lot of guys are really trying to say is it's a lot harder to score at work than it used to be. 

Yep. Pretty much. There's a lot more fish in the sea than at work. Why can't we all just be nice and professional at work, and keep the rest out of it?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

I don't think chivalry has anything to do with the homeless, especially if you're still clinging to the medieval notion of the concept. Having said that, I do have empathy for the plight of the legitimately homeless. Unfortunately there are so many so-called "homeless" who are just young adults pan handling because they can't be bothered to get a job. And as I experience this morning, where do they set themselves up? Right in front of the shops, thereby causing hardship on business owners who decided they would offer a valuable service instead of just begging for money. The chivalrous thing to do for these layabouts would be to give them a good swift kick and put them to work.

Don't be hasty, I would pay good money to see that. 😂

 

   Codes of chivalry varied in different times and places, but helping the poor and the weak was generally a central concept.

[laylalex 7,247]

1 hour ago, Boris Farage said:

Chivalry was murdered; strangled in its sleep by hairy armpitted thugs with an agenda to punish us all for the actions of a very small minority.

That's a little melodramatic, don't you think? I mean, I see a LOT of melodrama in this thread. Personally, I don't recall any incidents in my own life where a co-worker made me feel uncomfortable and it wasn't solved through just talking it through. And there were times in my former working life where I got a little drunk at a work thing and needed to be escorted home, but I can't think of any of these being situations where I thought oh, this guy is just using this as an excuse to get in my pants/skirt.

 

My personal life is a wholly different matter. I have had more than one incident where a man I considered my friend put me in a very compromising situation. A couple of these got ME, not him, in trouble with others. While nothing actually ever happened between us, waking up on a couch you didn't expect to wake up on, even fully clothed, can make you wonder what DID happen. Or having an afternoon which was supposed to just be hanging out at the beach that turned into something that looked like a romantic date to my then-fiance, who understandably was not happy. My friend did this because he thought I needed cheering up -- I was going through a rough time. I put myself in these situations not thinking about how it might look, because my friend was just... a friend. Like any of my female friends. And if a female friend had done any of the things he did (or most of them), no one would have batted an eye. But because he was a man, there was an automatic presumption that something must have happened. 

 

What I'm trying to say is that his chivalry -- taking me home when I was drunk, cheering me up -- wasn't murdered by militant feminists but by the patriarchal society we live in that assumes that all men want is sex. The patriarchy works against men, just as it does women.

[Boris Farage 353]

2 minutes ago, laylalex said:

What I'm trying to say is that his chivalry -- taking me home when I was drunk, cheering me up -- wasn't murdered by militant feminists but by the patriarchal society we live in that assumes that all men want is sex. The patriarchy works against men, just as it does women.

No, I daresay he was one of the lucky ones. But imagine a scenario where you were blotto, wake up in the morning and remember this gentleman took you home, and then notice one of the buttons on your blouse has come undone. This society has conditioned you to immediately assume the worst (because you don't remember undoing your button at the bar, perhaps you had been feeling a bit flirty that night) and lawyer up. Destroy this man, destroy his family, collect your thirty pieces of silver, and perhaps celebrate your victory by getting blotto at the local bar.

 

This is what men have to live with every day.

[laylalex 7,247]

1 minute ago, Boris Farage said:

No, I daresay he was one of the lucky ones. But imagine a scenario where you were blotto, wake up in the morning and remember this gentleman took you home, and then notice one of the buttons on your blouse has come undone. This society has conditioned you to immediately assume the worst (because you don't remember undoing your button at the bar, perhaps you had been feeling a bit flirty that night) and lawyer up. Destroy this man, destroy his family, collect your thirty pieces of silver, and perhaps celebrate your victory by getting blotto at the local bar.

 

This is what men have to live with every day.

Well, what I had to worry about was a fiance (not the current one) who could not understand that nothing HAD happened. I woke up wearing all my clothes, under a blanket. It nearly broke us up, he didn't speak to me for three days. And I had to promise to cut my friend out of my life for events that weren't terrible at all -- they just looked like them. Why? Because I had to protect his fragile male ego. I had no axe to grind against my friend, never would have assumed he would have laid a hand on me. But my then-fiance assumed every man was out to "get" me and I needed to be protected, cocooned against the world. All it did was make me more vulnerable.

 

This is what women have to live with, and worse.

[yuna628 9,530]

6 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

No, I daresay he was one of the lucky ones. But imagine a scenario where you were blotto, wake up in the morning and remember this gentleman took you home, and then notice one of the buttons on your blouse has come undone. This society has conditioned you to immediately assume the worst (because you don't remember undoing your button at the bar, perhaps you had been feeling a bit flirty that night) and lawyer up. Destroy this man, destroy his family, collect your thirty pieces of silver, and perhaps celebrate your victory by getting blotto at the local bar.

 

This is what men have to live with every day.

 

How about no one get drunk? Problem solved. Men, as in collectively, do not have to live with such things every day. Perhaps certain men that partake in risky behavior do. Perhaps certain men that are paranoid on every corner do. But a lot of men do not. They concern themselves, with themselves, get along well with others, do not partake in messy relationships at work, know and understands boundaries, respect others and bodily autonomy, and live a normal and relatively happy life.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

11 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

No, I daresay he was one of the lucky ones. But imagine a scenario where you were blotto, wake up in the morning and remember this gentleman took you home, and then notice one of the buttons on your blouse has come undone. This society has conditioned you to immediately assume the worst (because you don't remember undoing your button at the bar, perhaps you had been feeling a bit flirty that night) and lawyer up. Destroy this man, destroy his family, collect your thirty pieces of silver, and perhaps celebrate your victory by getting blotto at the local bar.

 

This is what men have to live with every day.

 

  Yeah stupid men. One missing adjective makes so much difference. If someone was thinking, having a family (and possibly a horde of silver) would be a good enough reason(s) not to end up drunk in such a silly situation with someone they don't really know. 

[Boris Farage 353]

5 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

How about no one get drunk? Problem solved.

Except in my case, nobody was drunk. And every time I hold a door open and get (at the very least) a nasty glare, I'm usually not drinking then either.

 

6 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Perhaps certain men that are paranoid on every corner do. But a lot of men do not. They concern themselves, with themselves, get along well with others, do not partake in messy relationships at work, know and understands boundaries, respect others and bodily autonomy, and live a normal and relatively happy life.

I guarantee most, if not all men, have some level of that pressure hanging over them, even if you don't think they're thinking of it. Most of us (including myself) do not partake in messy work relationships, respect boundaries, respect others, and live a normal happy life. But the pressure still hangs over us all.

[Boris Farage 353]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Yeah stupid men. One missing adjective makes so much difference. If someone was thinking, having a family (and possibly a horde of silver) would be a good enough reason(s) not to end up drunk in such a silly situation with someone they don't really know. 

I see. So we're never supposed to blame the women. But it's my own fault if I fall victim to false accusations because I went out for drinks and wanted to make sure someone got home ok.

[laylalex 7,247]

6 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

I see. So we're never supposed to blame the women. But it's my own fault if I fall victim to false accusations because I went out for drinks and wanted to make sure someone got home ok.

I don't think anyone is saying don't blame women who make actually false allegations. What isn't right is to assume that every man who acts in what he asserts is chivalry is actually being completely above board. Sometimes men can misread a situation and "go for it" without getting consent. 

 

And I thought your situation was only about the massage? Did it also happen with drinks?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

10 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

I see. So we're never supposed to blame the women. But it's my own fault if I fall victim to false accusations because I went out for drinks and wanted to make sure someone got home ok.

 

  Are you suggesting it's someone else's fault that you got into that situation? Even in overly simplified scenarios, we  should apply logic equitably. You have no problem blaming poor people for the actions that stop them from getting out of poverty. So why not blame stupid decisions for the actions that gets people into stupid situations. 

[yuna628 9,530]

32 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Except in my case, nobody was drunk. And every time I hold a door open and get (at the very least) a nasty glare, I'm usually not drinking then either.

 

I guarantee most, if not all men, have some level of that pressure hanging over them, even if you don't think they're thinking of it. Most of us (including myself) do not partake in messy work relationships, respect boundaries, respect others, and live a normal happy life. But the pressure still hangs over us all.

In your case you gave a coworker a massage and others rightly reported you for doing so. You admittedly shouldn't have done it, but you cope with it by believing she felt it was consensual behavior, even though it was completely inappropriate for the workplace, likely against workplace rules, and you have no true way of knowing if she actually was okay with it or reported you herself. Because even if she said she did not, you will never know.

30 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

I see. So we're never supposed to blame the women. But it's my own fault if I fall victim to false accusations because I went out for drinks and wanted to make sure someone got home ok.

How about not putting yourself in that situation? You state that women should not do risky behavior, it works both ways. You state any accusations resulting in your behavior will always be false - but we do not know this. You are a poster on the internet, and we only have your say so. For every rape, assault, murder, and molestation that really occurs will have the abuser insisting they didn't do it or have a million lies and justifications for doing it. If you take a drunk woman home, there is no need to enter her home, or even put a blanket on her. You can choose to not take her home, you can choose to gather a bunch of non-drunk reliable persons to be witnesses to take her home, or you can call her a cab - you can even be just concerned about your own self and not worry about her. You can not go out drinking altogether. You have choices to make. Make smart ones.

Edited September 3, 2019 by yuna628