'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[CaliCat 3,957]

18 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

In other first world countries there wouldn't be a need to have a local resident to chase off a guy with a gun when that guy had already killed 20+ people in the congregation in a matter of seconds. Access to firearms is so easy in this country and it is why there are so many mass shootings and death by guns. Stricter policies in Europe/Australia/Japan these events are very rare. This guy in 15 seconds did more damage than what has occurred in the UK during an entire year.

 

 

And if more guns were the answer, the Texas terrorist would not be on the news. 

 

There is enough straw to go around to start a brick factory.

 

[Boiler 43,492]

3 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

And if more guns were the answer, the Texas terrorist would not be on the news. 

 

There is enough straw to go around to start a brick factory.

 

And Trucks.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

And Trucks.

You'll have enough straw soon to make two strawmen!

Edited November 6, 2017 by JimandChristy

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Firearms account for close to 70% of homicides per year on average in the USA. That's more than twice as many as homicides committed by vehicles, blunt objects, knifes, hands, fists, feet, being thrown out of a window, explosives and poison combined. Might as well stop running from the facts because you can't hide from them.

 

I agree with your stats.  Now, how to we go about reducing them to a more tolerable level?

[Sonea 138]

Hopefully there will be more facts forthcoming. Thus far it seems he purchased the rifle from an FFL in Texas but has a dishonorable discharge on his record which, in Texas Law, apparently disqualifies a person. So the question may be, how did the background check fail. 

[jayjayj 571]

3 hours ago, Sonea said:

Hopefully there will be more facts forthcoming. Thus far it seems he purchased the rifle from an FFL in Texas but has a dishonorable discharge on his record which, in Texas Law, apparently disqualifies a person. So the question may be, how did the background check fail. 

He apparently has a Bad Conduct Discharge, which is different from a Dishonorable Discharge.  Bad Conduct Discharges don't result in a ban from buying or owning firearms.  

[Merle 458]

3 hours ago, jayjayj said:

He apparently has a Bad Conduct Discharge, which is different from a Dishonorable Discharge.  Bad Conduct Discharges don't result in a ban from buying or owning firearms.  

The word dishonorable is actually printed in bold letters on the form 4473. 

[jayjayj 571]

16 minutes ago, Merle said:

The word dishonorable is actually printed in bold letters on the form 4473. 

Post a link to his DD Form 4473.

 

This article quotes an AF spokesman saying "bad conduct discharge" -

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/the-latest-ages-of-texas-victims-ranged-from-5-to-72/2017/11/05/3ff786c8-c287-11e7-9922-4151f5ca6168_story.html?utm_term=.002cc0b9d21f

 

"Spokeswoman Ann Stefanek says Devin P. Kelley was court-martialed on one count of assault on his spouse and another count of assault on their child. He received a bad conduct discharge, 12 months’ confinement and a reduction in rank."

 

A Bad Conduct Discharge is not the same as a Dishonorable Discharge.

[Merle 458]

8 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

Post a link to his DD Form 4473.

 

This article quotes an AF spokesman saying "bad conduct discharge" -

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/the-latest-ages-of-texas-victims-ranged-from-5-to-72/2017/11/05/3ff786c8-c287-11e7-9922-4151f5ca6168_story.html?utm_term=.002cc0b9d21f

 

"Spokeswoman Ann Stefanek says Devin P. Kelley was court-martialed on one count of assault on his spouse and another count of assault on their child. He received a bad conduct discharge, 12 months’ confinement and a reduction in rank."

 

A Bad Conduct Discharge is not the same as a Dishonorable Discharge.

Whoa, easy now. I'm on your side. I was referring to the ATF form 4473 confirming that a bad conduct discharge is not a reason to deny a firearm purchase as the 4473 asks a potential buyer if they have had a dishonorable discharge.

[jayjayj 571]

2 minutes ago, Merle said:

Whoa, easy now. I'm on your side. I was referring to the ATF form 4473 confirming that a bad conduct discharge is not a reason to deny a firearm purchase as the 4473 asks a potential buyer if they have had a dishonorable discharge.

Sorry if I sounded confrontational.  That wasn't my intention.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

It's too early to tell about the actual discharge.  If indeed it IS dishonorable, then him having multiple guns means he obtained them either  1) Illegally, or 2) prior to his discharge.

 

I'm more concerned with the WHAT and WHY he did what he did.

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

10 hours ago, Sonea said:

Hopefully there will be more facts forthcoming. Thus far it seems he purchased the rifle from an FFL in Texas but has a dishonorable discharge on his record which, in Texas Law, apparently disqualifies a person. So the question may be, how did the background check fail. 

Not just Texas law but Federal law as well. If you have a Dishonorable Discharge from the military then you can not own a firearm nationwide. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

11 hours ago, IDWAF said:

I agree with your stats.  Now, how to we go about reducing them to a more tolerable level?

 

    I wish I had the answer. In many of these events, it seems it's too easy for people who shouldn't have guns to be able to get guns. I think we have to examine that.

 

    

[charmander 692]

5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   it seems it's too easy for people who shouldn't have guns to be able to get guns.

 

Not just any gun; assault rifle.

[Boiler 43,492]

1 minute ago, charmander said:

Not just any gun; assault rifle.

And Black