using husband/wife it will to deny your fiance' petition?

[CaroSL 68]

When speaking another language they can't just decide what a particular word means or pick the closest word because it makes sense in their language. They should use the word as it is intended. This is a good habit to get into if they want to associate with other people that speak English otherwise they will just look stupid. I assume they have a word to mean "future" (or something similar to future)? So they should be calling them future husband or future wife, not simply husband and wife as that assumes a depth of relationship that DOES NOT exist.

I really don't agree, specially with your loved one... Sometimes it is very difficult to get rid of all our habits. Sometimes we know the use of the word in english is not exactly what it is in our own language, but we don't really find another word to describe what we want to say. With my fiancé, we use french expressions translated into english (because he doesn't speak french). I explained them to him so he knows what I mean. It is like a private joke for us. I need to share my culture with my fiancé somehow. Words, expressions we are using are part of this.

And I will never be friend with people who won't tolerate that I missused a word or that I do something differently. I also sometimes use english words that totally exist, are correct, and used by english people. But they are unknown, forgotten or not used by american people.

And lastly, I know many people who call their partner "femme" or "mari" while not married, just because they have been together for so long and just hang out with married couple, or because they didn't sign any papers but they don't need to to consider themselves commited for life.

And what does it matter? As soon as there not filling up papers as if they were married and trying to lie to the government (which wouldn't work). People can call each other whatever they want in their private communication, can't they?

I am not saying this is sure that an officer that is looking over so many cases a day will for sure understand that (but in the philippines, that must be pretty usual, so they should), but surely on this forum with only international couples, we should all understand?

Edited January 8, 2013 by CaroSL

[haggarda.versoza 3]

This is just interesting!!! I just noticed, people who have said that the terms "hubby" and "wifey" could be a ground for denial are mainly not from the Philippines (Ireland, Russia, Australia, etc.) (or whose fiancee's are not Filipino). I don't think these guys understand how Filipinos shows affection to their loved ones.

Well, girls and boys, here in the Philippines, calling each other "hubby" and "wifey" is even normal for boyfriends or girlfriends. Lol, it's just a term. Can you guys not say it's suspicious?! It doesn't connote that two people are already married. You guys are actually funny.

And what like Artisan said, "The Philippine government tracks very carefully the marriage status of all of their citizens and the Embassy requires certified copies of these documents before issuing a K-1 visa."

Meanwhile, the OP said that they just sent the packet. Don't make her go worry all throughout the waiting process.

So to you hoping19, cheer up!!!! Like you, we just sent the packet. I call my fiance "hubby" and he calls me "wifey" too but I am not worried about it.

[AgnettaHoo 18]

I am from Indonesia. And now I am worried too...

So lately after our engagement, we call each other husband/wife in the email or when we say goodbyes to each other after a long chat on Yahoo. Like.. "Stay safe for me. You have a wife/husband here.." We did not submit any emails in the petition and now still waiting for NOA2. Will this really affect my visa??

The reason why we do it is simply because even if we are far apart and have to wait for like..so long, I already feel that he's my husband at heart.. Now I am really really worried... I will stop doing that..

[CaroSL 68]

I am from Indonesia. And now I am worried too...

So lately after our engagement, we call each other husband/wife in the email or when we say goodbyes to each other after a long chat on Yahoo. Like.. "Stay safe for me. You have a wife/husband here.." We did not submit any emails in the petition and now still waiting for NOA2. Will this really affect my visa??

The reason why we do it is simply because even if we are far apart and have to wait for like..so long, I already feel that he's my husband at heart.. Now I am really really worried... I will stop doing that..

They don't spy on your emails or yahoo conversations. Don't mention it in the interview, or bring any emails with husband and wife in it, make a habit of calling your fiancé 'fiancé' so you will use that term at the interview, you will be perfectly fine.

I think we don't need to be paranoid, the stress level is up enough already.

Best of luck to you guys!

[Boggy1974 124]

Artisan asked a specific question in one of his earlier post: Can someone please provide a concrete hard evidence of a K-1{Fiance(e)visa} applicant being DENIED a visa anywhere in the world by a Consular Officer because the applicant used the word husband or wife wrongly in their chat or email? The answer is a big NONE! Not one case like that exists. Yet we hear people talking about 'stories' and face book pictures etc to scare people. A hearsay story is not a fact or evidence. It is just a story. And for anyone who is unaware, American Consular Officers and other staff are trained in cultural sentivity and to understand the country or locality they are posted to. This training is mandatory and given annually or bi-annually as part of the qualification to perform the duties. There are also constant refresher trainings/courses to the cultural and linguistic setting in which they work. I know this as a matter of fact because I work for the Dept of State in the CS Division and I have travelled extensively to different consulates in countries and cultures around the world. In addition, Consular Officers work hand-in-hand with highly trained and educated local staff(we call them FSNs i.e. Foreign Service Nationals) who help them sort out these issues. Very often, these FSNs 'screen' and pre-interview applicants and in turn 'explain' to COs some of the coloquial meanings of English words in local languages, especially more so in situations where applicants don't and can't speak the english language. On the flip side, COs look at the totality of the hard evidence/facts in terms of the documents placed before them to make approve or denial decisions - Not just based on a few chats/emails that incorrectly refers to the fiance(e) as a husband or wife.

Let me speak directly to the OP: please Do NOT be worried that your visa will be denied because you used "husband"/"wife" when in fact you are engaged. I would not! And if this question ever comes at the interview, calmly and confidently explain to the CO what you and your fiancee or fiance mean by those words in your local language. I for one finds it amusing and amazing how us Westerners, especially some in this forum want 'force' our understanding of the technical and dictionary defition of the word "husband" and "wife" unto someone using these terms coloquially and as an informal reference to their significant other in their every day conversation. Yes, is it a word or english term used wrongly by someone who is NOT a native born speaker of the english language but that in itself and of itself can not be grounds for denial. Sure, we can correct them to use these words properly so as to form the habit of using them right, but to say that their visas would be denied because of that is far from the truth!

Goodluck to you OP!

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Artisan asked a specific question in one of his earlier post: Can someone please provide a concrete hard evidence of a K-1{Fiance(e)visa} applicant being DENIED a visa anywhere in the world by a Consular Officer because the applicant used the word husband or wife wrongly in their chat or email? The answer is a big NONE! Not one case like that exists. Yet we hear people talking about 'stories' and face book pictures etc to scare people.

Here is the "story" that does not exist in your opinion of being denied because of the FB album: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/346279-how-can-a-k-1-misrepresentation-denial-be-overturned/

There are also MANY posts about the consulate denying people because they think they're legally married (for example) http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/289614-anyone-denied-a-k1-and-re-filed-for-ir1cr1/ and it's based on them thinking that the cultural wedding was official, this also happens in India where a religious wedding is considered legal in India even if it's not registered.

I know there's posts about the email thing but I can only search for so long before I get bored. The gist of it is this - STOP giving them reasons to deny you for some small (and admittedly petty) reason. You aren't married, don't call someone the term that is for married couples. Its really that simple. You want your visa approved, follow the rules (both of immigration and society) and call your fiance/e your fiance/e. They might not have the word in their native language but they DO have the word in English so using the English word for husband/wife when they could use the English word for fiance/e is just bizarre however using the foreign term would be less bizarre as you stated, as there is no other word in their language.

[baron555 934]

This is just interesting!!! I just noticed, people who have said that the terms "hubby" and "wifey" could be a ground for denial are mainly not from the Philippines (Ireland, Russia, Australia, etc.) (or whose fiancee's are not Filipino). I don't think these guys understand how Filipinos shows affection to their loved ones.

Well, if that's the custom, then Manila will know that and take that into account.

But....you're dealing with other USCs in the Embassy and maybe they won't know about that.

[Boggy1974 124]

Well the links actually supports the point I'm making--that COs take into account the totality of the evidence to make an approval/denial decisions. An important part of COs duties is to detect fraud/material misrepresentation(s). So obviously if a visa applicant is engaged and applying for a K-1 Fiance(e) visa and has documents stating "marriage" or "customary marriage cert" then the applicant wouldn't be certainly qualify for a K-1 but rather a cr-1. Besides, the "story" or "stories" are third person's account asking questions on a behalf of friends. They may or may not have the entire "story" right. Who knows if these persons are presenting the whole facts behind the denial? So far we have not seen anyone come forward telling us their K-1 was denied because of a chat/email. All we have to this point is hearsay. All I am saying is the OP's application will not surely be denied solely because they have chats/email addressing their significant other as "hubby"/"wifey". Is "wifey"/"hubby" the correct/right way to address one's fiance/e in the Western world? The answer is No. Will addressing one's engaged partner "wifey"/"hubby" cause some COs to scratch their heads and cause some apprehension? The answer is Yes. But would a CO summarily deny a visa application based on a chat/email(which is a secondary evidence anyway) without looking at the totality or the entire documents placed before them? I don't think so. I deal with COs on a very regular basis; they are human and majority of them understand such cultural differences. It is fair to tell foreigners the proper way to address their SO when they're engaged so they wouldn't encounter issues in a western application process. I am all for learning the right way and doing things correctly. Sure we can correct them to form a habit of conversating the correct way if they want to present these chats as supporting docs, but we must also remember that every culture is unique and has its own way of addressing partners which is totally different from ours. COs around the world are trained to recognize that. Is it possible for visa applicants to encounter a CO who is not aware of these cultural norms in spite of all the cultural sensitivity training? Yes. I would rather advise the OP to present materials that are consistent with a K-1 application so they would not have problems along the way. The process is hard and long enough and the OP would be well served by advise that unduely increases their stress level.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Well the links actually supports the point I'm making--that COs take into account the totality of the evidence to make an approval/denial decisions. An important part of COs duties is to detect fraud/material misrepresentation(s). So obviously if a visa applicant is engaged and applying for a K-1 Fiance(e) visa and has documents stating "marriage" or "customary marriage cert" then the applicant wouldn't be certainly qualify for a K-1 but rather a cr-1. Besides, the "story" or "stories" are third person's account asking questions on a behalf of friends. They may or may not have the entire "story" right. Who knows if these persons are presenting the whole facts behind the denial? So far we have not seen anyone come forward telling us their K-1 was denied because of a chat/email. All we have to this point is hearsay. All I am saying is the OP's application will not surely be denied solely because they have chats/email addressing their significant other as "hubby"/"wifey". Is "wifey"/"hubby" the correct/right way to address one's fiance/e in the Western world? The answer is No. Will addressing one's engaged partner "wifey"/"hubby" cause some COs to scratch their heads and cause some apprehension? The answer is Yes. But would a CO summarily deny a visa application based on a chat/email(which is a secondary evidence anyway) without looking at the totality or the entire documents placed before them? I don't think so. I deal with COs on a very regular basis; they are human and majority of them understand such cultural differences. It is fair to tell foreigners the proper way to address their SO when they're engaged so they wouldn't encounter issues in a western application process. I am all for learning the right way and doing things correctly. Sure we can correct them to form a habit of conversating the correct way if they want to present these chats as supporting docs, but we must also remember that every culture is unique and has its own way of addressing partners which is totally different from ours. COs around the world are trained to recognize that. Is it possible for visa applicants to encounter a CO who is not aware of these cultural norms in spite of all the cultural sensitivity training? Yes. I would rather advise the OP to present materials that are consistent with a K-1 application so they would not have problems along the way. The process is hard and long enough and the OP would be well served by advise that unduely increases their stress level.

I wanted to read your post, I really did... but the lack of paragraphs and wall of text hurts my eyes.

[bigdog 376]

Here is the "story" that does not exist in your opinion of being denied because of the FB album: http://www.visajourn...-be-overturned/

There are also MANY posts about the consulate denying people because they think they're legally married (for example) http://www.visajourn...led-for-ir1cr1/ and it's based on them thinking that the cultural wedding was official, this also happens in India where a religious wedding is considered legal in India even if it's not registered.

I know there's posts about the email thing but I can only search for so long before I get bored. The gist of it is this - STOP giving them reasons to deny you for some small (and admittedly petty) reason. You aren't married, don't call someone the term that is for married couples. Its really that simple. You want your visa approved, follow the rules (both of immigration and society) and call your fiance/e your fiance/e. They might not have the word in their native language but they DO have the word in English so using the English word for husband/wife when they could use the English word for fiance/e is just bizarre however using the foreign term would be less bizarre as you stated, as there is no other word in their language.

:thumbs:Finally some straight talk.

[Boggy1974 124]

I wanted to read your post, I really did... but the lack of paragraphs and wall of text hurts my eyes.

Surely the half-truths and unduly scaring the OP was challenged and that's exactly what hurts your eyes!

[TBoneTX 43,124]

Surely the half-truths and unduly scaring the OP was challenged and that's exactly what hurts your eyes!

Please stop insulting other members -- someone who wants his opinion to be considered will take care that the visual presentation of the opinion doesn't distract from the message itself.

Also, please stop offering reckless advice and opinions on an issue that you know less about (despite your claim) than do others here. The embassy/consulate phase is not a laughing matter, or one to be dismissed with a figurative wave of the hand or a comment of "you will be fine" or "the consular officer is trained to consider the totality of the evidence and to understand such cultural differences." Nice theory, but very dangerous to rely on in practice.

Consular officers have 100% power over us. First and foremost, and more important than their understanding of cultural differences, they are trained and geared to be suspicious of potential fraud. Even one doubt in their minds can (to them) justify issuing a 221g or refusing the visa outright.

The COs might also have a new Section Chief of the Immigrant Visa Unit who instructs them to refuse visas on the basis of ANY inconsistency in the interviewee's papers or story.

Search the forums and the embassy reviews for K-1 interviewees who were asked by the consul, seemingly casually, "So, what does your husband do..." or "How long have you known your wife?" These are intentional -- and very standard -- attempts to trip up the interviewee. Trust that you do NOT want to risk the outcome.

In dozens of VJ threads over the years, it's been confirmed that fiance/es' referring to themselves in writing as "husband/wife" -- even playfully -- is perhaps the potentially most hazardous act that any couple could undertake when seeking a visa. It is also the most avoidable. Anyone who is doing this should stop it NOW and ensure that no such references are included in ANY papers that go to USCIS or the consulate! Remember that everything that you send to USCIS with the petition goes to the consulate after the petition is approved.

In addition, a great many things happen in Manila that are unique to Manila and do not remotely apply to ANY other consulate. Non-Manila filers who read posts on VJ are cautioned to keep this in mind when tempted to take a Manila filer's information or story as a general truth.

The very greatest danger on VJ is any member who suggests treating the consular stage lightly. The consular stage is not just the interview -- it effectively starts when the I-129F petition is filed, and it does not end until the beneficiary successfully enters the United States with use of the K-1 visa. Only then can we quit holding our breath. If you really "deal with COs on a very regular basis," you would be sounding the loudest alarms of any poster on VJ.

---

EDITED TO ADD: Viewers of the current thread may wish to read this separate thread in its entirety:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/405038-can-my-i-130-the-place-of-i-129f-in-line/

In terms of the OP's believability, both his level of knowledge about the petition process and his tone of posting may be enlightening.

Edited January 12, 2013 by TBoneTX

[baron555 934]

someone who wants his opinion to be considered will take care that the visual presentation of the opinion doesn't distract from the message itself.

You never get a second chance at making a first impression.

Consular officers have 100% power over us.

Period.

referring to themselves in writing as "husband/wife" -- even playfully -- is perhaps the potentially most hazardous act that any couple could undertake when seeking a visa. It is also the most avoidable. Anyone who is doing this should stop it NOW and ensure that no such references are included in ANY papers that go to USCIS or the consulate! Remember that everything that you send to USCIS with the petition goes to the consulate after the petition is approved.

Yep

In addition, a great many things happen in Manila that are unique to Manila and do not remotely apply to ANY other consulate. Non-Manila filers who read posts on VJ are cautioned to keep this in mind when tempted to take a Manila filer's information or story as a general truth.

If they want country specific information then they should post in or their thread be moved to the appropriate regional forum.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Please stop insulting other members -- someone who wants his opinion to be considered will take care that the visual presentation of the opinion doesn't distract from the message itself.

Also, please stop offering reckless advice and opinions on an issue that you know less about (despite your claim) than do others here. The embassy/consulate phase is not a laughing matter, or one to be dismissed with a figurative wave of the hand or a comment of "you will be fine" or "the consular officer is trained to consider the totality of the evidence and to understand such cultural differences." Nice theory, but very dangerous to rely on in practice.

Consular officers have 100% power over us. First and foremost, and more important than their understanding of cultural differences, they are trained and geared to be suspicious of potential fraud. Even one doubt in their minds can (to them) justify issuing a 221g or refusing the visa outright.

The COs might also have a new Section Chief of the Immigrant Visa Unit who instructs them to refuse visas on the basis of ANY inconsistency in the interviewee's papers or story.

Search the forums and the embassy reviews for K-1 interviewees who were asked by the consul, seemingly casually, "So, what does your husband do..." or "How long have you known your wife?" These are intentional -- and very standard -- attempts to trip up the interviewee. Trust that you do NOT want to risk the outcome.

In dozens of VJ threads over the years, it's been confirmed that fiance/es' referring to themselves in writing as "husband/wife" -- even playfully -- is perhaps the potentially most hazardous act that any couple could undertake when seeking a visa. It is also the most avoidable. Anyone who is doing this should stop it NOW and ensure that no such references are included in ANY papers that go to USCIS or the consulate! Remember that everything that you send to USCIS with the petition goes to the consulate after the petition is approved.

In addition, a great many things happen in Manila that are unique to Manila and do not remotely apply to ANY other consulate. Non-Manila filers who read posts on VJ are cautioned to keep this in mind when tempted to take a Manila filer's information or story as a general truth.

The very greatest danger on VJ is any member who suggests treating the consular stage lightly. The consular stage is not just the interview -- it effectively starts when the I-129F petition is filed, and it does not end until the beneficiary successfully enters the United States with use of the K-1 visa. Only then can we quit holding our breath. If you really "deal with COs on a very regular basis," you would be sounding the loudest alarms of any poster on VJ.

---

EDITED TO ADD: Viewers of the current thread may wish to read this separate thread in its entirety:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/405038-can-my-i-130-the-place-of-i-129f-in-line/

In terms of the OP's believability, both his level of knowledge about the petition process and his tone of posting may be enlightening.

Agreed. Thank you for responding to that person. I left my glasses at work (and even then I need a new prescription - I'm long/far-sighted) and reading that wall of text actually DOES hurt my eyes. Sometimes I have to highlight stuff with my mouse to make those "walls of text" easier to read but sometimes even that doesn't work :S

Paragraphs are wonderful

[Boggy1974 124]

Please stop insulting other members -- someone who wants his opinion to be considered will take care that the visual presentation of the opinion doesn't distract from the message itself.

Also, please stop offering reckless advice and opinions on an issue that you know less about (despite your claim) than do others here. The embassy/consulate phase is not a laughing matter, or one to be dismissed with a figurative wave of the hand or a comment of "you will be fine" or "the consular officer is trained to consider the totality of the evidence and to understand such cultural differences." Nice theory, but very dangerous to rely on in practice.

Consular officers have 100% power over us. First and foremost, and more important than their understanding of cultural differences, they are trained and geared to be suspicious of potential fraud. Even one doubt in their minds can (to them) justify issuing a 221g or refusing the visa outright.

The COs might also have a new Section Chief of the Immigrant Visa Unit who instructs them to refuse visas on the basis of ANY inconsistency in the interviewee's papers or story.

Search the forums and the embassy reviews for K-1 interviewees who were asked by the consul, seemingly casually, "So, what does your husband do..." or "How long have you known your wife?" These are intentional -- and very standard -- attempts to trip up the interviewee. Trust that you do NOT want to risk the outcome.

In dozens of VJ threads over the years, it's been confirmed that fiance/es' referring to themselves in writing as "husband/wife" -- even playfully -- is perhaps the potentially most hazardous act that any couple could undertake when seeking a visa. It is also the most avoidable. Anyone who is doing this should stop it NOW and ensure that no such references are included in ANY papers that go to USCIS or the consulate! Remember that everything that you send to USCIS with the petition goes to the consulate after the petition is approved.

In addition, a great many things happen in Manila that are unique to Manila and do not remotely apply to ANY other consulate. Non-Manila filers who read posts on VJ are cautioned to keep this in mind when tempted to take a Manila filer's information or story as a general truth.

The very greatest danger on VJ is any member who suggests treating the consular stage lightly. The consular stage is not just the interview -- it effectively starts when the I-129F petition is filed, and it does not end until the beneficiary successfully enters the United States with use of the K-1 visa. Only then can we quit holding our breath. If you really "deal with COs on a very regular basis," you would be sounding the loudest alarms of any poster on VJ.

---

EDITED TO ADD: Viewers of the current thread may wish to read this separate thread in its entirety:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/405038-can-my-i-130-the-place-of-i-129f-in-line/

In terms of the OP's believability, both his level of knowledge about the petition process and his tone of posting may be enlightening.

First of all, I am not insulting anyone. I provided a rebuttal to a response that tried to slight as opposed to challenging the substance of the issues raised.

Secondly, the advice I provided is not reckless but instead very much consistent with how COs perform their duties. They look at the body of evidence before them to make an approval or denial decisions. I know this as a fact because I work in government and deal with COs on regular basis to know what I'm talking about.

Thirdly, no one has disputed the power of COs and nowhere in my response did I remotely suggested that VJ members should take lightly visa processing at the consular stage. The feeback/response I provided is right here on this site for anyone who cares to go back and read for themselves.

Lastly, much of your posts is full of personal attacks that I would not dignify by responding to - because it would not serve any useful purpose and obviously wouldn't allow for a healthy dialogue/discussion. However, you cantrust that I stand ready to rebutt half-truths and unnecessarily scaring people as is the case with this particular topic.