The voice of the survivor of Islamic terror

[peejay 327]

you said: But answer me this. What other religion forcibly makes people convert, beheads people for their religious beliefs, or nationality, and will not be happy until all other religious beliefs are extinguished?

MY ANSWER:

I dont know please tell me what religion does that??? Because that is NOT Islam.

Denial is on of the biggest problems with moderate Muslims.

So what's your answer then? Deny visas to Muslims? Deport the ones that are here? Have them under house arrest? Put them all on the terrorist watch list? Outlaw the religion here in America? What's your solution?

How about drastically reducing immigration altogether from everywhere? The stupidness of the 1965 Immigration Act certainly certainly hasn't improved life in America for the vast majority of Americans, has it? It has become all too clear that our government hasn't managed immigration in any competent way for decades, so why even continue this joke. In recent years illegal immigration has outpaced legal immigration. Who are these people and what are they doing here? Obviously 9/11 comes to mind.

No better time to nix mass immigration than when the USA is going down the toilet financially. Why add more gasoline to the fire already burning out of control? It's time to start thinking about controlling and extinguishing the fire. The entire situation needs to be managed and controlled at a level that allocated resources can handle. Taking in millions (legally & illegally) annually is insane year in and year out. Stop the madness.

[doodlebugg 10]

This is her basic argument:

She details her opinions that her country's inherent multicultural acceptance of all faiths and cultures including the then dominant Lebanese Christians, led to Lebanon's ruin by the continuous attacks from indigenous Muslims and immigrant Palestinians, determined to destroy the infidel (Christian) communities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel

....

So is the Heritage Foundation taking the position that we should shut off American immigration to Muslims?

That's a stretch.

Her message is that moderate muslims should self police the more 'extreme' members of their religion.

Listen to her speech. She said that Lebanon was like 'the Paris of the Middle East' when it was predominantly Christian. Then things started going bad when the Muslims became the majority. When she talked about those committing atrocities, she called them Muslim.

I think we'd all agree that radical fundamentalism and intolerance is what we should be focused on eradicating without condemning a specific religion.

Her viewpoint is personal, hence the referral to those committing atrocities as Muslim. In her own experience, the only people committing atrocities were the Muslims. The Christians were murdered just for being Christian, the Israelis were compassionate without prejudice. But this was her own, personal experience.

I would reckon that most people who delve into the Off Topic middle East threads are aware of the refugee camp massacres perpetrated by the Christian militia in Lebanon back in 1982, and the way the Israelis stood back and let it happen. No civilised person should condone those actions. But they were not religious intolerance, they were cold-blooded revenge against a people for acts carried out in their name. Religion had squat to do with it. Small-scale genocide is a more apt description.

Radical fundamentalism is contrary to modern civilised values. But answer me this. What other religion forcibly makes people convert, beheads people for their religious beliefs, or nationality, and will not be happy until all other religious beliefs are extinguished?

One of the speaker's points is that no-one in the Islamic community will speak out against Islamic fundamentalism of any kind, even in the USA, where they can expect to be protected against reprisals, whereas other religions all have their vocal dissenters.

And one last thing - The Lions Club as an international espionage organisation? #######?

you said: But answer me this. What other religion forcibly makes people convert, beheads people for their religious beliefs, or nationality, and will not be happy until all other religious beliefs are extinguished?

MY ANSWER:

I dont know please tell me what religion does that??? Because that is NOT Islam.

Apparently you and I need to study the books more. Islam is bad, mmmkay?

[Ban Hammer 12,836]

Denial is on of the biggest problems with moderate Muslims.

I agree....but not just the problem of moderate Muslims.....nobody reads or researches or learns....really. I am not a religious person, I'm not...but Islam scares the #### out of me.

i don't know why

[DeadPoolX 9]

you said: But answer me this. What other religion forcibly makes people convert, beheads people for their religious beliefs, or nationality, and will not be happy until all other religious beliefs are extinguished?

MY ANSWER:

I dont know please tell me what religion does that??? Because that is NOT Islam.

Well... that's not entirely true. There are members who claim to practice Islam and they're often quite violent. That doesn't mean all Muslims are necessarily bad or that the religion itself promotes such violence, but there are plenty of Muslims who do.

Maybe the core of Islam is not a violent religion, but it's obviously been twisted over the years. So have most religions. Look at Christianity -- Jesus spoke of peace. So what did hardcore believers do? They eventually created the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition. Did either of those hold true to the core beliefs of Christianity? Nope! So it's not difficult to believe that Islam is in the same state: It's become something other than originally intended by hardcore followers.

[doodlebugg 10]

you said: But answer me this. What other religion forcibly makes people convert, beheads people for their religious beliefs, or nationality, and will not be happy until all other religious beliefs are extinguished?

MY ANSWER:

I dont know please tell me what religion does that??? Because that is NOT Islam.

Well... that's not entirely true. There are members who claim to practice Islam and they're often quite violent. That doesn't mean all Muslims are necessarily bad or that the religion itself promotes such violence, but there are plenty of Muslims who do.

Maybe the core of Islam is not a violent religion, but it's obviously been twisted over the years. So have most religions. Look at Christianity -- Jesus spoke of peace. So what did hardcore believers do? They eventually created the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition. Did either of those hold true to the core beliefs of Christianity? Nope! So it's not difficult to believe that Islam is in the same state: It's become something other than originally intended by hardcore followers.

Here's my take on it for what THAT's worth: The US is made up of many different religions. Sure the majority is Christian but when the US bombs the heck out of a country you don't really hear "down with Christianity" and when the US is threatened by another nation you don't see people waving signs saying anyone who is against Christianity should be killed, because US does not equal Christianity.

When you look at other countries like Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Saudi, they are Islamic nations so the nation itself is looked upon as a representation of Islam and when people threaten those nations they are looked upon as threatening Islam.

It's political is what I"m trying to say. Does that make sense to anyone? It has nothing to do with the religion but everything to do with politics and it so happens that because some countries are lead by their religion, unfortunately religion gets tied in the middle of it all.

[DeadPoolX 9]

you said: But answer me this. What other religion forcibly makes people convert, beheads people for their religious beliefs, or nationality, and will not be happy until all other religious beliefs are extinguished?

MY ANSWER:

I dont know please tell me what religion does that??? Because that is NOT Islam.

Well... that's not entirely true. There are members who claim to practice Islam and they're often quite violent. That doesn't mean all Muslims are necessarily bad or that the religion itself promotes such violence, but there are plenty of Muslims who do.

Maybe the core of Islam is not a violent religion, but it's obviously been twisted over the years. So have most religions. Look at Christianity -- Jesus spoke of peace. So what did hardcore believers do? They eventually created the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition. Did either of those hold true to the core beliefs of Christianity? Nope! So it's not difficult to believe that Islam is in the same state: It's become something other than originally intended by hardcore followers.

Here's my take on it for what THAT's worth: The US is made up of many different religions. Sure the majority is Christian but when the US bombs the heck out of a country you don't really hear "down with Christianity" and when the US is threatened by another nation you don't see people waving signs saying anyone who is against Christianity should be killed, because US does not equal Christianity.

When you look at other countries like Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Saudi, they are Islamic nations so the nation itself is looked upon as a representation of Islam and when people threaten those nations they are looked upon as threatening Islam.

It's political is what I"m trying to say. Does that make sense to anyone? It has nothing to do with the religion but everything to do with politics and it so happens that because some countries are lead by their religion, unfortunately religion gets tied in the middle of it all.

Nowhere did I say the United States equals Christianity. I merely suggested that Christianity itself (regardless of where it exists) has done some reprehensible deeds during its time, but that represents the hardcore followers and not the original intent or message. I believe the same is true for Islam.

Politics in some countries have a lot to with religion, especially those in the Middle East. To deny such is to remain blind to past and current events.

[HAL 9000 96]

Denial is on of the biggest problems with moderate Muslims.

I agree....but not just the problem of moderate Muslims.....nobody reads or researches or learns....really. I am not a religious person, I'm not...but Islam scares the #### out of me.

i don't know why

Is that BY holding that "Liberalism Go to Hell" sign?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Denial is on of the biggest problems with moderate Muslims.

I agree....but not just the problem of moderate Muslims.....nobody reads or researches or learns....really. I am not a religious person, I'm not...but Islam scares the #### out of me.

i don't know why

Is that BY holding that "Liberalism Go to Hell" sign?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Denial is on of the biggest problems with moderate Muslims.

I agree....but not just the problem of moderate Muslims.....nobody reads or researches or learns....really. I am not a religious person, I'm not...but Islam scares the #### out of me.

Islam has been hi-jacked and the denial is staggering. It scares me too.

[Ling Ling 22]

Ms. Gabriel is a very angry and charismatic woman. She plays well to Pro-Israel, Pro-America, Anti-Muslim, we're at Condition Orange Club.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being Pro-Israel or Pro-America, but that's wholly different from Anti-Muslim.

While they can be mutually exclusive, I can see where those subscribing to both ideals would line-up to hear Ms. Gabriel speak.

She attempts to temper her hatred by speaking of the "good Muslims", but her agenda and the agenda of her supporters should be clear from anyone that watches this piece in its entirety along with the Q&A session.

I feel she exploits her own tragic history in a way that is detracting. There is no mystery to this woman, she says exactly what her audience expects.

Radical Muslims are a huge problem, but there are also problems with radical Israelis, and radical Christians.

We don't hear much about the terrorism of the other radicals, because in my opinion, they have mastered the art of slight-of-hand.

I'm not saying we should ignore her views, but that her apparent hatred detracts from her message.

Further, her idea that it's OK for the government to listen to her phone calls or search her home without warrant,

tells me she's been reading too much propaganda and not enough of the US Constitution.

There are 3 sides to every story...his, hers, and the truth.

[mawilson 2,133]

Here's my take on it for what THAT's worth: The US is made up of many different religions. Sure the majority is Christian but when the US bombs the heck out of a country you don't really hear "down with Christianity" and when the US is threatened by another nation you don't see people waving signs saying anyone who is against Christianity should be killed, because US does not equal Christianity.

When a Muslim country bombs another country, you don't hear "down with Islam" either.

How many American terrorists who have murdered people in the name of Jesus can you name? Individuals - not Presidents or governments. Twenty-first century examples only, please.

Edited December 31, 2008 by mawilson

[Pooky 3,348]

Ms. Gabriel is a very angry and charismatic woman. She plays well to Pro-Israel, Pro-America, Anti-Muslim, we're at Condition Orange Club. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being Pro-Israel or Pro-America, but that's wholly different from Anti-Muslim. While they can be mutually exclusive, I can see where those subscribing to both ideals would line-up to hear Ms. Gabriel speak.

She attempts to temper her hatred by speaking of the "good Muslims", but her agenda and the agenda of her supporters should be clear from anyone that watches this piece in its entirety along with the Q&A session.

I feel she exploits her own tragic history in a way that is detracting. There is no mystery to this woman, she says exactly what her audience expects.

Radical Muslims are a huge problem, but there are also problems with radical Israelis, and radical Christians.

We don't hear much about the terrorism of the other radicals, because in my opinion, they have mastered the art of slight-of-hand.

I'm not saying we should ignore her views, but that her apparent hatred detracts from her message.

Further, her idea that it's OK for the government to listen to her phone calls or search her home without warrant,

tells me she's been reading too much propaganda and not enough of the US Constitution.

There are 3 sides to every story...his, hers, and the truth.

This was indeed her personal experience of the situation. Given that at one point she expected to die, who are we to judge how she views the situation. Have you been in such a bind? I know that I have not.

As Mister FP said, radicals of all faiths, colours and creeds are not to be tolerated. Her take on it is that there are currently rather more Islamic radicals than any others and judging by the overall coverage worldwide, she seems to have a point.

As for her having no mystery? Not being completely open is forever a problem. If she appeared to be holding back on anything, her arguments would appear less compelling, even false, to a degree. She is no politician. Her agenda is plainly spelled out. If you agree or disagree with her view, at least you have all the information in your hand to make that judgement.

[Ling Ling 22]

Ms. Gabriel is a very angry and charismatic woman. She plays well to Pro-Israel, Pro-America, Anti-Muslim, we're at Condition Orange Club. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being Pro-Israel or Pro-America, but that's wholly different from Anti-Muslim. While they can be mutually exclusive, I can see where those subscribing to both ideals would line-up to hear Ms. Gabriel speak.

She attempts to temper her hatred by speaking of the "good Muslims", but her agenda and the agenda of her supporters should be clear from anyone that watches this piece in its entirety along with the Q&A session.

I feel she exploits her own tragic history in a way that is detracting. There is no mystery to this woman, she says exactly what her audience expects.

Radical Muslims are a huge problem, but there are also problems with radical Israelis, and radical Christians.

We don't hear much about the terrorism of the other radicals, because in my opinion, they have mastered the art of slight-of-hand.

I'm not saying we should ignore her views, but that her apparent hatred detracts from her message.

Further, her idea that it's OK for the government to listen to her phone calls or search her home without warrant,

tells me she's been reading too much propaganda and not enough of the US Constitution.

There are 3 sides to every story...his, hers, and the truth.

This was indeed her personal experience of the situation. Given that at one point she expected to die, who are we to judge how she views the situation. Have you been in such a bind? I know that I have not.

As Mister FP said, radicals of all faiths, colours and creeds are not to be tolerated. Her take on it is that there are currently rather more Islamic radicals than any others and judging by the overall coverage worldwide, she seems to have a point.

As for her having no mystery? Not being completely open is forever a problem. If she appeared to be holding back on anything, her arguments would appear less compelling, even false, to a degree. She is no politician. Her agenda is plainly spelled out. If you agree or disagree with her view, at least you have all the information in your hand to make that judgement.

Actually, I have been in a "bind" where I EXPECTED to die....but not in a foreign country.

One such instance was in an all White neighborhood in Chicago. Friends and I went to a school dance, we were 13 to 14 years old, we expected to be picked up by one of my friend's parents. Walking home on a major street, we had food and bottles thrown at us. We heard racial slurs and threats of death. We thought we were going to die that night. This wasn't in the 1960s, this was a mere 20 something years ago.

So yeah, I know what it's like to EXPECT to die because of terrorists....and that's just one example.

But I don't make my living exploiting my story and getting paid to tell people how good they are and how bad other people are.

I wonder if she were grossly disfigured, and not as charismatic a speaker, that she would have a TV production company, an advertising agency,

and get paid to speak at events. Perhaps so, perhaps not. Did you watch the video in its entirety?

Were you surprised by her responses to any of the questions?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Here's my take on it for what THAT's worth: The US is made up of many different religions. Sure the majority is Christian but when the US bombs the heck out of a country you don't really hear "down with Christianity" and when the US is threatened by another nation you don't see people waving signs saying anyone who is against Christianity should be killed, because US does not equal Christianity.

When a Muslim country bombs another country, you don't hear "down with Islam" either.

How many American terrorists who have murdered people in the name of Jesus can you name? Individuals - not Presidents or governments. Twenty-first century examples only, please.

That's a very short list.

[Ling Ling 22]

Here's my take on it for what THAT's worth: The US is made up of many different religions. Sure the majority is Christian but when the US bombs the heck out of a country you don't really hear "down with Christianity" and when the US is threatened by another nation you don't see people waving signs saying anyone who is against Christianity should be killed, because US does not equal Christianity.

When a Muslim country bombs another country, you don't hear "down with Islam" either.

How many American terrorists who have murdered people in the name of Jesus can you name? Individuals - not Presidents or governments. Twenty-first century examples only, please.

That's a very short list.

Whenever most of us hear the phrase "For God and for Country" we immediately think of the US military.

Many of the men and women in armed service are told (and believe) that they are serving and protecting "God and Country".

The troops sent to Iraq were not sent to engage an Iraq army, but to inflict Shock & Awe on civilians.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Ask the 12 year old Iraqi boy if he's looked into the barrel of US freedom fighters.

...the list just got very long.