The voice of the survivor of Islamic terror

[MARM 7]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

your post is about 100 times the length of my previous comments

now do us both a favor and don't presume to tell me how to think based on what you believe you know about me.

I am not telling you how to think. I am stating an opinion: you are an example of American politics and I do not see anything that you have to be proud of after so many years of experience in the military. Period.

yes, you are telling me how to think: "Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you.."

got news for you - the military don't teach things like that, and how you managed to wiggle american politics into this is beyond me, as i've not mentioned politics at all nor am i involved in politics more than the average citizen.

so if you're here just for personal attacks on me, it's

So you are telling me that the military doesn't teach basic values such as respect...interesting. And I did not manage to wiggle American politics into this, you posted the picture, did you not? From some media source? Or are you telling me that you took that picture by yourself in person and witnessed it? I am not here for personal attacks, I am very surprised that you can laugh and post such images when talking about religion, especially when discussing a religion that people feel so strongly about, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And I am also surprised that you can do this and yet you have so much military experience...I would think that you can at least be serious and respectful in the issue of religion. That's all. No personal attacks intended.

so now you admit you were telling me how to think, based on what you think occurs in the military, thank you.

btw that's a pic from an event in britain, so go blame the british media for it. and why my military background is so important to you is beyond me also.

I have friends and family in the military, and they have a lot of respect for religion, and they would not be posting laughing smilies or insensitive comments while posting negative images about Islam in the media at the same time. That is why I feel military background is important...and I came to know about your military background because you mentioned your military background in this thread. So that is why I brought up the military in this conversation.

.... So there you go, it is a picture from the media...that is where I got the politics part of my posts from. I do not mean any offense to you at all.

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

your post is about 100 times the length of my previous comments

now do us both a favor and don't presume to tell me how to think based on what you believe you know about me.

I am not telling you how to think. I am stating an opinion: you are an example of American politics and I do not see anything that you have to be proud of after so many years of experience in the military. Period.

yes, you are telling me how to think: "Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you.."

got news for you - the military don't teach things like that, and how you managed to wiggle american politics into this is beyond me, as i've not mentioned politics at all nor am i involved in politics more than the average citizen.

so if you're here just for personal attacks on me, it's

So you are telling me that the military doesn't teach basic values such as respect...interesting. And I did not manage to wiggle American politics into this, you posted the picture, did you not? From some media source? Or are you telling me that you took that picture by yourself in person and witnessed it? I am not here for personal attacks, I am very surprised that you can laugh and post such images when talking about religion, especially when discussing a religion that people feel so strongly about, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And I am also surprised that you can do this and yet you have so much military experience...I would think that you can at least be serious and respectful in the issue of religion. That's all. No personal attacks intended.

so now you admit you were telling me how to think, based on what you think occurs in the military, thank you.

btw that's a pic from an event in britain, so go blame the british media for it. and why my military background is so important to you is beyond me also.

I have friends and family in the military, and they have a lot of respect for religion, and they would not be posting laughing smilies while posting negative images about Islam in the media at the same time. That is why I feel military background is important...and I came to know about your military background because you mentioned your military background in this thread. So that is why I brought up the military in this conversation.

.... So there you go, it is a picture from the media...that is where I got the politics part of my posts from. I do not mean any offense to you at all.

religion in the military is optional, not mandatory. it's not like one has to attend church or else. i think the only time i went to the chapel was to attend services for fellow soldiers who died while in the service.

now about this topic of negative images about islam: one clue that this pic was taken in europe is the bottom right hand sign. and just out of curiosity, why the uproar with me about the picture instead of at the fools in the picture? do you really suppose they are doing your religion a favor?

and i have more pics if you'd like to see more of these individuals acting the fool.

[MARM 7]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

your post is about 100 times the length of my previous comments

now do us both a favor and don't presume to tell me how to think based on what you believe you know about me.

I am not telling you how to think. I am stating an opinion: you are an example of American politics and I do not see anything that you have to be proud of after so many years of experience in the military. Period.

yes, you are telling me how to think: "Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you.."

got news for you - the military don't teach things like that, and how you managed to wiggle american politics into this is beyond me, as i've not mentioned politics at all nor am i involved in politics more than the average citizen.

so if you're here just for personal attacks on me, it's

So you are telling me that the military doesn't teach basic values such as respect...interesting. And I did not manage to wiggle American politics into this, you posted the picture, did you not? From some media source? Or are you telling me that you took that picture by yourself in person and witnessed it? I am not here for personal attacks, I am very surprised that you can laugh and post such images when talking about religion, especially when discussing a religion that people feel so strongly about, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And I am also surprised that you can do this and yet you have so much military experience...I would think that you can at least be serious and respectful in the issue of religion. That's all. No personal attacks intended.

so now you admit you were telling me how to think, based on what you think occurs in the military, thank you.

btw that's a pic from an event in britain, so go blame the british media for it. and why my military background is so important to you is beyond me also.

I have friends and family in the military, and they have a lot of respect for religion, and they would not be posting laughing smilies while posting negative images about Islam in the media at the same time. That is why I feel military background is important...and I came to know about your military background because you mentioned your military background in this thread. So that is why I brought up the military in this conversation.

.... So there you go, it is a picture from the media...that is where I got the politics part of my posts from. I do not mean any offense to you at all.

religion in the military is optional, not mandatory. it's not like one has to attend church or else. i think the only time i went to the chapel was to attend services for fellow soldiers who died while in the service.

now about this topic of negative images about islam: one clue that this pic was taken in europe is the bottom right hand sign. and just out of curiosity, why the uproar with me about the picture instead of at the fools in the picture? do you really suppose they are doing your religion a favor?

and i have more pics if you'd like to see more of these individuals acting the fool.

I meant respecting religion, I did not mean belonging to or practicing a certain religion. Of course there is an uproar against those such as the fools in the picture, just because you don't see it in the media doesn't mean there is not, but you chose to put this picture in this thread in relation to the topic (you answered a question with this picture I believe), and I cannot stop these fools with all my single effort, but I can express my opinion and inform where I can so that people that use these media images to speak of Islam realize that it is a form of disrespect and even if what I say does not matter to them, I have done my part in the least, to inform and explain. Being Muslim, I am offended and deeply hurt by these fools and also by those who post such media images. And just because you don't see many media images of protests or hear of how Muslims are standing up for their religion against these fools, does not mean we accept them as Muslims or part of Islam, if you did further research, you would come to know that efforts are being taken to clear the name of Islam, but like I said, politics has strangled this issue, which makes it difficult for people to see what is really going on.

Edited January 1, 2009 by MARM

[merijan 0]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

When I hear from a huge majority of Muslim's/Islamist's that they will not stand for the extremists in their midst, and actually see them actively demonstrating, turning in terrorists to proper authorities, etc. then I will 'respect' their right to their religion. Until then, they are supporters of the likes of Al Quida and therefor suspect.

Don't be sensitive about being a Muslim, stand up and declare that these people have hijacked the religion. If not, then why not? I just don't see any doing that. Only hearing it is politically incorrect to say anything in wrong with Islam...

Well since you dont live in a place that will allow you to see that , and ALL you see is what the media here wants you to see I guess you will not be able to make an informed decision. For instance in Pakistan they are fighting the very same terrorism. Even more than here, more than UK more than India

http://www.dawn.com/2008/10/11/top17.htm

guess you never saw this one on tv here.

[merijan 0]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

When I hear from a huge majority of Muslim's/Islamist's that they will not stand for the extremists in their midst, and actually see them actively demonstrating, turning in terrorists to proper authorities, etc. then I will 'respect' their right to their religion. Until then, they are supporters of the likes of Al Quida and therefor suspect.

Don't be sensitive about being a Muslim, stand up and declare that these people have hijacked the religion. If not, then why not? I just don't see any doing that. Only hearing it is politically incorrect to say anything in wrong with Islam...

Well since you dont live in a place that will allow you to see that , and ALL you see is what the media here wants you to see I guess you will not be able to make an informed decision. For instance in Pakistan they are fighting the very same terrorism. Even more than here, more than UK more than India

http://www.dawn.com/2008/10/11/top17.htm

guess you never saw this one on tv here.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...-12-2008_pg7_27

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

your post is about 100 times the length of my previous comments

now do us both a favor and don't presume to tell me how to think based on what you believe you know about me.

I am not telling you how to think. I am stating an opinion: you are an example of American politics and I do not see anything that you have to be proud of after so many years of experience in the military. Period.

yes, you are telling me how to think: "Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you.."

got news for you - the military don't teach things like that, and how you managed to wiggle american politics into this is beyond me, as i've not mentioned politics at all nor am i involved in politics more than the average citizen.

so if you're here just for personal attacks on me, it's

So you are telling me that the military doesn't teach basic values such as respect...interesting. And I did not manage to wiggle American politics into this, you posted the picture, did you not? From some media source? Or are you telling me that you took that picture by yourself in person and witnessed it? I am not here for personal attacks, I am very surprised that you can laugh and post such images when talking about religion, especially when discussing a religion that people feel so strongly about, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And I am also surprised that you can do this and yet you have so much military experience...I would think that you can at least be serious and respectful in the issue of religion. That's all. No personal attacks intended.

so now you admit you were telling me how to think, based on what you think occurs in the military, thank you.

btw that's a pic from an event in britain, so go blame the british media for it. and why my military background is so important to you is beyond me also.

I have friends and family in the military, and they have a lot of respect for religion, and they would not be posting laughing smilies while posting negative images about Islam in the media at the same time. That is why I feel military background is important...and I came to know about your military background because you mentioned your military background in this thread. So that is why I brought up the military in this conversation.

.... So there you go, it is a picture from the media...that is where I got the politics part of my posts from. I do not mean any offense to you at all.

religion in the military is optional, not mandatory. it's not like one has to attend church or else. i think the only time i went to the chapel was to attend services for fellow soldiers who died while in the service.

now about this topic of negative images about islam: one clue that this pic was taken in europe is the bottom right hand sign. and just out of curiosity, why the uproar with me about the picture instead of at the fools in the picture? do you really suppose they are doing your religion a favor?

and i have more pics if you'd like to see more of these individuals acting the fool.

I meant respecting religion, I did not mean belonging to or practicing a certain religion. Of course there is an uproar against those such as the fools in the picture, just because you don't see it in the media doesn't mean there is not, but you chose to put this picture in this thread in relation to the topic (you answered a question with this picture I believe), and I cannot stop these fools with all my single effort, but I can express my opinion and inform where I can so that people that use these media images to speak of Islam realize that it is a form of disrespect and even if what I say does not matter to them, I have done my part in the least, to inform and explain. Being Muslim, I am offended and deeply hurt by these fools and also by those who post such media images. And just because you don't see many media images of protests or hear of how Muslims are standing up for their religion against these fools, does not mean we accept them as Muslims or part of Islam, if you did further research, you would come to know that efforts are being taken to clear the name of Islam, but like I said, politics has strangled this issue, which makes it difficult for people to see what is really going on.

imo they don't respect their own religion (these clowns in the picture). anyone who walks around with a sign like that deserves scorn and i do hope they got a browbeating and told to stfu by their imam. furthermore, having a big protest like they did politicizes the issue, not pictures of them doing so.

and i do research - my source is vw, aka geg. vw islam is so easy to understand, even i get it.

[MARM 7]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

When I hear from a huge majority of Muslim's/Islamist's that they will not stand for the extremists in their midst, and actually see them actively demonstrating, turning in terrorists to proper authorities, etc. then I will 'respect' their right to their religion. Until then, they are supporters of the likes of Al Quida and therefor suspect.

Don't be sensitive about being a Muslim, stand up and declare that these people have hijacked the religion. If not, then why not? I just don't see any doing that. Only hearing it is politically incorrect to say anything in wrong with Islam...

Well since you dont live in a place that will allow you to see that , and ALL you see is what the media here wants you to see I guess you will not be able to make an informed decision. For instance in Pakistan they are fighting the very same terrorism. Even more than here, more than UK more than India

http://www.dawn.com/2008/10/11/top17.htm

guess you never saw this one on tv here.

Exactly. The efforts of Muslims against these terrorists is not ever acknowledged, but it is very easy for people to create negative opinions...ignorance is the main reason and then politics of course come into play...I am of Pakistani origin and a practicing Muslim born and raised in the United States. I have family back home so I know what is going on back there, but people don't listen to or bother to acknowledge any information from true and actual primary sources. For some reason, people would rather listen to the news, watch whatever is on the media, and that's it, they think they know what the world is about. And then they even argue what they think it is that they believe is correct, when in reality, they don't bother to find out the truth for themselves and become puppets in the hands of the media. And then they form these baseless opinions and try to argue with those that actually live in the reality of it all and when they are faced with the truth, they don't want to hear it. People would rather be ignorant than actually care to do the research to create informed opinions...

[MARM 7]

Here we are talking about Islam today, a sensitive issue and one that is not to be joked around about...especially in the context of this thread. Yet is is very SAD to notice that people here cannot even respect each others religion, forget about stating an informed opinion...charles!, I am saying this in response to your comments.

Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you to respect others as much as you want to be respected, but from your comments it seems as if you could not care less, which is up to you of course, you don't have to respect religion, but it makes me wonder what it is that you have to be proud of after so many years of military experience. You are an example of American politics.

your post is about 100 times the length of my previous comments

now do us both a favor and don't presume to tell me how to think based on what you believe you know about me.

I am not telling you how to think. I am stating an opinion: you are an example of American politics and I do not see anything that you have to be proud of after so many years of experience in the military. Period.

yes, you are telling me how to think: "Having so much experience serving the country and the military should have at least taught you.."

got news for you - the military don't teach things like that, and how you managed to wiggle american politics into this is beyond me, as i've not mentioned politics at all nor am i involved in politics more than the average citizen.

so if you're here just for personal attacks on me, it's

So you are telling me that the military doesn't teach basic values such as respect...interesting. And I did not manage to wiggle American politics into this, you posted the picture, did you not? From some media source? Or are you telling me that you took that picture by yourself in person and witnessed it? I am not here for personal attacks, I am very surprised that you can laugh and post such images when talking about religion, especially when discussing a religion that people feel so strongly about, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And I am also surprised that you can do this and yet you have so much military experience...I would think that you can at least be serious and respectful in the issue of religion. That's all. No personal attacks intended.

so now you admit you were telling me how to think, based on what you think occurs in the military, thank you.

btw that's a pic from an event in britain, so go blame the british media for it. and why my military background is so important to you is beyond me also.

I have friends and family in the military, and they have a lot of respect for religion, and they would not be posting laughing smilies while posting negative images about Islam in the media at the same time. That is why I feel military background is important...and I came to know about your military background because you mentioned your military background in this thread. So that is why I brought up the military in this conversation.

.... So there you go, it is a picture from the media...that is where I got the politics part of my posts from. I do not mean any offense to you at all.

religion in the military is optional, not mandatory. it's not like one has to attend church or else. i think the only time i went to the chapel was to attend services for fellow soldiers who died while in the service.

now about this topic of negative images about islam: one clue that this pic was taken in europe is the bottom right hand sign. and just out of curiosity, why the uproar with me about the picture instead of at the fools in the picture? do you really suppose they are doing your religion a favor?

and i have more pics if you'd like to see more of these individuals acting the fool.

I meant respecting religion, I did not mean belonging to or practicing a certain religion. Of course there is an uproar against those such as the fools in the picture, just because you don't see it in the media doesn't mean there is not, but you chose to put this picture in this thread in relation to the topic (you answered a question with this picture I believe), and I cannot stop these fools with all my single effort, but I can express my opinion and inform where I can so that people that use these media images to speak of Islam realize that it is a form of disrespect and even if what I say does not matter to them, I have done my part in the least, to inform and explain. Being Muslim, I am offended and deeply hurt by these fools and also by those who post such media images. And just because you don't see many media images of protests or hear of how Muslims are standing up for their religion against these fools, does not mean we accept them as Muslims or part of Islam, if you did further research, you would come to know that efforts are being taken to clear the name of Islam, but like I said, politics has strangled this issue, which makes it difficult for people to see what is really going on.

imo they don't respect their own religion (these clowns in the picture). anyone who walks around with a sign like that deserves scorn and i do hope they got a browbeating and told to stfu by their imam. furthermore, having a big protest like they did politicizes the issue, not pictures of them doing so.

and i do research - my source is vw, aka geg. vw islam is so easy to understand, even i get it.

It is very good and intelligent of you that you do your research and I wish that others would do the same. Anyone who behaves like the clowns in the picture deserves exactly what you said...but people (not you) take these pictures at face value and tag them with "Muslims are like this, Islam teaches this..." which is NOT true. My point is, they were wrong in what they did, this is not the true Islam.

[merijan 0]

Charles please , you posted that pic after an ignorant and hatefull comment regarding Islam was posted. NO need to post it. but you were trying to make a point to the prev. post. So dont try to be so innocent by saying things like "We should be more angry with the people in the picture" etc...

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

Charles please , you posted that pic after an ignorant and hatefull comment regarding Islam was posted. NO need to post it. but you were trying to make a point to the prev. post. So dont try to be so innocent by saying things like "We should be more angry with the people in the picture" etc...

when you get done here, wander back over to this thread and answer me

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169648

and in case you forgot, refer to post #34

[ready4ONE 5,400]

"As today’s weapons of mass destruction go, the human bomb is cheap. A Palestinian security official pointed out that, apart from a willing young man, all that is needed are such items as nails, gunpowder, a battery, a light switch and a short cable, mercury (readily obtainable from thermometers), acetone, and the cost of tailoring a belt wide enough to hold six or eight pockets of explosives. The most expensive item is transportation to a distant Israeli town. The total cost of a typical operation is about US $150 (£85). The sponsoring organisation usually gives between $3,000-$5,000 (£1,700- £2,830) to the bomber’s family.

I met an imam affiliated with Hamas, a youthful, bearded graduate of the prestigious al Azhar University in Cairo. He explained that the first drop of blood shed by a martyr during jihad washes away his sins instantaneously. On the Day of Judgment, he will face no reckoning. On the Day of Resurrection, he can intercede for 70 of his nearest and dearest to enter Heaven; and he will have at his disposal 72 houris, the beautiful virgins of Paradise. The imam took pains to explain that the promised bliss is not sensual.

There is no shortage of willing recruits for martyrdom. Hamas and Islamic Jihad generally reject those who are under 18, who are the sole wage-earners in their families, or who are married and have family responsibilities. If two brothers ask to join, one is turned away."

Excerpt from: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_...ticle543551.ece

Unfortunately for moderate Muslim's, there are a few too many who buy the bull of the aforementioned Imam... I would hazard the assumption that the folks in Charle's picture could be counted among them.

[merijan 0]

Charles please , you posted that pic after an ignorant and hatefull comment regarding Islam was posted. NO need to post it. but you were trying to make a point to the prev. post. So dont try to be so innocent by saying things like "We should be more angry with the people in the picture" etc...

when you get done here, wander back over to this thread and answer me

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169648

and in case you forgot, refer to post #34

And your point is???????

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

Charles please , you posted that pic after an ignorant and hatefull comment regarding Islam was posted. NO need to post it. but you were trying to make a point to the prev. post. So dont try to be so innocent by saying things like "We should be more angry with the people in the picture" etc...

when you get done here, wander back over to this thread and answer me

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169648

and in case you forgot, refer to post #34

And your point is???????

apparently over your head.

[Scott & Lai 12]

"As today’s weapons of mass destruction go, the human bomb is cheap. A Palestinian security official pointed out that, apart from a willing young man, all that is needed are such items as nails, gunpowder, a battery, a light switch and a short cable, mercury (readily obtainable from thermometers), acetone, and the cost of tailoring a belt wide enough to hold six or eight pockets of explosives. The most expensive item is transportation to a distant Israeli town. The total cost of a typical operation is about US $150 (£85). The sponsoring organisation usually gives between $3,000-$5,000 (£1,700- £2,830) to the bomber’s family.

I met an imam affiliated with Hamas, a youthful, bearded graduate of the prestigious al Azhar University in Cairo. He explained that the first drop of blood shed by a martyr during jihad washes away his sins instantaneously. On the Day of Judgment, he will face no reckoning. On the Day of Resurrection, he can intercede for 70 of his nearest and dearest to enter Heaven; and he will have at his disposal 72 houris, the beautiful virgins of Paradise. The imam took pains to explain that the promised bliss is not sensual.

There is no shortage of willing recruits for martyrdom. Hamas and Islamic Jihad generally reject those who are under 18, who are the sole wage-earners in their families, or who are married and have family responsibilities. If two brothers ask to join, one is turned away."

Excerpt from: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_...ticle543551.ece

Unfortunately for moderate Muslim's, there are a few too many who buy the bull of the aforementioned Imam... I would hazard the assumption that the folks in Charle's picture could be counted among them.

So are imams such as this anomalous? Are they considered to be false teachers? What are they being taught in the universities from which they graduated? If they learned what they are teaching from their universities, wouldn't that mean their teachings are mainstream? If they didn't get their versions of Islam from the university, where did they get it from? Are there serious calls to have them removed and barred from teaching?

[Scott & Lai 12]

Charles please , you posted that pic after an ignorant and hatefull comment regarding Islam was posted. NO need to post it. but you were trying to make a point to the prev. post. So dont try to be so innocent by saying things like "We should be more angry with the people in the picture" etc...

when you get done here, wander back over to this thread and answer me

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169648

and in case you forgot, refer to post #34

Charles, did you mean to post a link to the gunfire in Santa Ana topic? If you did, I don't get the connection...