DS 260 "Have you ever been arrested..." question

[Bryan and An 23]

Hello! 

 

I'm working on the DS-260 for my father-in-law's IR-5 and was wondering about the "ever been arrested" question. He was never arrested in his home country (Vietnam) and his police record came back completely clear. However, several (~3) years ago, while fishing (his former job; he's retired now) he and the whole crew were arrested by Malaysian police and ended up spending about 9 months in jail in Malaysia. The charge was either fishing in Malaysian waters with an expired permit or no permit at all - can't remember exactly (regardless, they always fished exactly where the owner told them to). They were eventually all released when the owner of the fishing boat paid a certain amount of money - a fine, I suppose. I'm not sure exactly how it was all worded, or if there was ever a conviction per se as opposed to just being detained that long, but anyway he got out and went home and retired. 

 

I'm assuming I should put all of this, in as much detail as possible? My wife thinks maybe we don't need to since it wasn't in Vietnam, and he probably wouldn't be able to get any kind of records from Malaysia if he needed to. Thoughts? And if fully disclosed, what are the chances a type of arrest/imprisonment like this would hurt his case? Would he be asked to provide some kind of hard(impossible? to obtain records from Malaysia? 

 

Thanks for any and all help and advice!

[Crazy Cat 39,213]

Ever means...ever....

"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject or a pardon, amnesty, or other similar action?"

It doesn't say "in your home country".

[Bryan and An 23]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Ever means...ever....

"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject or a pardon, amnesty, or other similar action?"

It doesn't say "in your home country".

Yes - thank you for taking the time to answer. Any insight on whether they’re going to want (probably unobtainable) documentation of that record?

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

3 hours ago, Bryan and An said:

Hello! 

 

I'm working on the DS-260 for my father-in-law's IR-5 and was wondering about the "ever been arrested" question. He was never arrested in his home country (Vietnam) and his police record came back completely clear. However, several (~3) years ago, while fishing (his former job; he's retired now) he and the whole crew were arrested by Malaysian police and ended up spending about 9 months in jail in Malaysia. The charge was either fishing in Malaysian waters with an expired permit or no permit at all - can't remember exactly (regardless, they always fished exactly where the owner told them to). They were eventually all released when the owner of the fishing boat paid a certain amount of money - a fine, I suppose. I'm not sure exactly how it was all worded, or if there was ever a conviction per se as opposed to just being detained that long, but anyway he got out and went home and retired. 

 

I'm assuming I should put all of this, in as much detail as possible? My wife thinks maybe we don't need to since it wasn't in Vietnam, and he probably wouldn't be able to get any kind of records from Malaysia if he needed to. Thoughts? And if fully disclosed, what are the chances a type of arrest/imprisonment like this would hurt his case? Would he be asked to provide some kind of hard(impossible? to obtain records from Malaysia? 

 

Thanks for any and all help and advice!

Your wife clearly doesn’t understand what the phrase “have you EVER” means! Of course you have to mention it. It hardly sounds like the kind of thing that would be a problem for immigration. 
Curious as to why you are so sure he would be unable to obtain arrest records from Malaysia if needed? Anyway, if it turns out they are unable to be obtained, NVC will be aware of that.

[Redro 4,597]

3 hours ago, Bryan and An said:

Hello! 

 

I'm working on the DS-260 for my father-in-law's IR-5 and was wondering about the "ever been arrested" question. He was never arrested in his home country (Vietnam) and his police record came back completely clear. However, several (~3) years ago, while fishing (his former job; he's retired now) he and the whole crew were arrested by Malaysian police and ended up spending about 9 months in jail in Malaysia. The charge was either fishing in Malaysian waters with an expired permit or no permit at all - can't remember exactly (regardless, they always fished exactly where the owner told them to). They were eventually all released when the owner of the fishing boat paid a certain amount of money - a fine, I suppose. I'm not sure exactly how it was all worded, or if there was ever a conviction per se as opposed to just being detained that long, but anyway he got out and went home and retired. 

 

I'm assuming I should put all of this, in as much detail as possible? My wife thinks maybe we don't need to since it wasn't in Vietnam, and he probably wouldn't be able to get any kind of records from Malaysia if he needed to. Thoughts? And if fully disclosed, what are the chances a type of arrest/imprisonment like this would hurt his case? Would he be asked to provide some kind of hard(impossible? to obtain records from Malaysia? 

 

Thanks for any and all help and advice!

You need to check out the NVC required documents:

 

Under POLICE CERTIFICATES:

 

If you ....

Were arrested for any reason, regardless of how long you lived in that city or country, and no matter what age you were

THEN submit a police certificate from...

The city and/or country where you were arrested.

 

Also:

Court and Prison Records:

If you were convicted of a crime, you MUST obtain a certified copy of each court and prison record, even if you were later granted amnesty, a pardon, or other act of clemency.

 

You should either hire an agent or lawyer (in Malaysia?) who can investigate what happened and if any paperwork is available. 

 

 

 

[Redro 4,597]

3 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Your wife clearly doesn’t understand what the phrase “have you EVER” means! Of course you have to mention it. It hardly sounds like the kind of thing that would be a problem for immigration. 
Curious as to why you are so sure he would be unable to obtain arrest records from Malaysia if needed? Anyway, if it turns out they are unable to be obtained, NVC will be aware of that.

From Visa Reciprocity for Malaysia

Court/Prison Records

Unavailable:  If a police check develops evidence of the existence of a prison record, or if an applicant volunteers such information, the Embassy can obtain relevant particulars by official application to the Director General of Prisons. The name of the applicant, prison number, and the name of the prison where sentence was served are necessary information.

 

Police Certificates

Available/Unavailable :  Available

Fees: RM20:00

Document Name:  CERTIFICATE OF GOOD CONDUCT

Issuing Authority: Consular Division Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Putrajaya/ Sarawak Regional Office Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kuching and Sabah Regional Office Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kota Kinabalu

Special Seal(s) / Color / Format: Light brown

Issuing Authority Personnel Title: There is no issuing authority personnel title.

Registration Criteria: Both Malaysians and non-Malaysians who have resided in Malaysia for a period of more than one year may apply for a Malaysian certificate of good conduct. The application form for the Malaysian Certificate of Good Conduct, as well as the addresses and telephone numbers of Malaysian Missions abroad, are available here. Processing time for the certificate is one to two months from the date of submission.

Procedure for Obtaining: Visit the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Malaysia website at this link: kln.gov

Certified Copies Available: Certified copies are not available.

Alternate Documents: There are no alternate documents.

Exceptions:  Not available to applicants on refugee status if their status in Malaysia is not legal or no valid records exist.  Also, Malaysia will not issue police certificates for anyone out of status in Malaysia.

• Pre-Condition for Foreigners: Foreigners, who wish to apply for Certificate of Good Conduct, Must have resided in Malaysia for a period of at least 12 consecutive months under long term social visit pass – employment pass, student pass, spouse of Malaysian, expatriate pass

 

Either way. Father should indicate "Yes" and be prepared to explain the situation. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by ROK2USA

[Bryan and An 23]

58 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

You need to check out the NVC required documents:

 

Under POLICE CERTIFICATES:

 

If you ....

Were arrested for any reason, regardless of how long you lived in that city or country, and no matter what age you were

THEN submit a police certificate from...

The city and/or country where you were arrested.

 

Also:

Court and Prison Records:

If you were convicted of a crime, you MUST obtain a certified copy of each court and prison record, even if you were later granted amnesty, a pardon, or other act of clemency.

 

You should either hire an agent or lawyer (in Malaysia?) who can investigate what happened and if any paperwork is available. 

 

 

 

Hence my confusion. From your first quoted part: “regardless of how long you lived in that city or country…” He NEVER set foot in Malaysia, let alone lived there, other than being taken from the police boat to the jail and then later released. I guess being in jail may technically count as living somewhere, but not in the common parlance, in my opinion. 
 

And in the second quoted part, it says “if you were convicted of a crime…” He never was convicted. But in another place it just says “arrested.” 
 

Thanks to those who took the time to answer politely. After doing all of my wife’s K1 visa, AOS, ROC, and naturalization paperwork singlehandedly, there have certainly been plenty of times that USCIS instructions have been unclear or contradictory. Thankfully, I’ve gotten many good answers here on many different things. 
 

What rubs me the wrong way is getting a response commenting on how well my wife “clearly does or doesn’t understand” something in her non-native language. My 6th grade students have learned how to speak to each other in a more helpful and respectful fashion than that. Shame. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Bryan and An

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

Just now, Bryan and An said:

Hence my confusion. From your first quoted part: “regardless of how long you lived in that city or country…” He NEVER set foot in Malaysia, let alone lived there, other than being taken from the police boat to the jail and then later released. I guess being in jail may technically count as living somewhere, but not in the common parlance, in my opinion. 
 

And in the second quoted part, it says “if you were convicted of a crime…” He never was convicted. But in another place it just says “arrested.” 
 

Thanks to those who took the time to answer politely. After doing all of my wife’s K1 visa, AOS, ROC, and naturalization paperwork singlehandedly, there have certainly been plenty of times that USCIS instructions have been unclear or contradictory. Thankfully, I’ve gotten many good answers here on many different things. 
 

What rubs me the wrong way is getting a response commenting on how well my wife “clearly does or doesn’t understand” something in her non-native language. My 6th grade students have learned how to speak to each other in a more helpful and respected fashion than that. Shame. 

Question: have you ever been arrested?

answer: yes.

 

to the parts about conviction etc he can answer no. 
 

it was sarcasm, by the way… the fact that your wife clearly chose to ignore a very clearly stated, totally unambiguous  question. Yes, some dos/uscis questions are not clear. This one is,  Sorry you got “rubbed up the wrong way”, you’ll get rubbed up much more if uscis decides there has been deliberate misrepresentation on the forms submitted, 

[MarJhi 912]

10 minutes ago, Bryan and An said:

He NEVER set foot in Malaysia, let alone lived there,

I understand you are saying he never set foot on Malaysian soil, but since he was arrested in Malaysian waters I assume that falls under their jurisdiction (which makes complete sense)  and counts just the same. 

 

Good luck in your case

Edited May 17, 2022 by MarJhi

[Bryan and An 23]

10 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Question: have you ever been arrested?

answer: yes.

 

to the parts about conviction etc he can answer no. 
 

it was sarcasm, by the way… the fact that your wife clearly chose to ignore a very clearly stated, totally unambiguous  question. Yes, some dos/uscis questions are not clear. This one is,  Sorry you got “rubbed up the wrong way”, you’ll get rubbed up much more if uscis decides there has been deliberate misrepresentation on the forms submitted, 

My response was harsh. I apologize and thank you for your help. 

[Bryan and An 23]

6 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

I understand you are saying he never set foot on Malaysian soil, but since he was arrested in Malaysian waters I assume that falls under their jurisdiction (which makes complete sense)  and counts just the same. 

 

Good luck in your case

Well, that exact point (location of the arrest) was what was in dispute the whole time, but yes it was the reason for his arrest. 

[Redro 4,597]

38 minutes ago, Bryan and An said:

Well, that exact point (location of the arrest) was what was in dispute the whole time, but yes it was the reason for his arrest. 

I believe when you write "Yes" It gives you the option to include more information. So, perhaps write what you wrote here 

"Was arrested/detained for fishing in Malaysian waters with expired/no fishing license."

You can upload a letter to NVC stating Malaysian court records and PCC are unavailable as he was never a legal resident of Malaysia. 

Then when he gets to interview he can explain the situation. 

 

[MarJhi 912]

35 minutes ago, Bryan and An said:

Well, that exact point (location of the arrest) was what was in dispute the whole time, but yes it was the reason for his arrest. 

Just be careful when it comes to answering questions. Sometimes I notice when people have a question they need to answer and they want to adopt the "well...technically" defense to avoid answering the question that was asked. You even referred to it as an "arrest" yourself above. 

 

I personally would rather call it what it was, an arrest, and then fill in the details later about what happened than to come off as hiding something by saying he was never arrested.

[Bryan and An 23]

1 minute ago, ROK2USA said:

I believe when you write "Yes" It gives you the option to include more information. So, perhaps write what you wrote here 

"Was arrested/detained for fishing in Malaysian waters with expired/no fishing license."

You can upload a letter to NVC stating Malaysian court records and PCC are unavailable as he was never a legal resident of Malaysia. 

Then when he gets to interview he can explain the situation. 

 

 

Thanks - I agree. We're going to answer "yes" and explain exactly what happened and assume they'll let us know if he needs any documentation. Wouldn't need a "Certificate of Good Conduct" I presume since it says that's only available to people who were in Malaysia 12 months or more. 

 

1 minute ago, MarJhi said:

Just be careful when it comes to answering questions. Sometimes I notice when people have a question they need to answer and they want to adopt the "well...technically" defense to avoid answering the question that was asked. You even referred to it as an "arrest" yourself above. 

 

I personally would rather call it what it was, an arrest, and then fill in the details later about what happened than to come off as hiding something by saying he was never arrested.

 Good advice, and thank you. Will just err on the side of being as forthcoming as possible on the DS-260 and interview. 

[SalishSea 16,769]

OP, your FIL was arrested and imprisoned for NINE MONTHS in a foreign country.   
 

This is much bigger than yes/no answers to “have you ever been arrested” or criminal records from other countries. 
 

I don’t get why you’re downplaying it’s relevance to visa eligibility.