Why are we rushing to defend Ukraine? [merged threads]

[TBoneTX 43,060]

Thoughts?

Quote

Why are we rushing to defend Ukraine?

By Michael McKenna - - Saturday, January 22, 2022

 

The military-industrial complex and its clients sprinkled throughout both political parties seem to have decided that the next place we need to go and kill people (or at least sell weapons to help others kill people) is Ukraine, assuming that Russia decides to slice off a section of its former province.  [...]

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/22/why-are-we-rushing-to-defend-ukraine/  

 

[JoBri 545]

4 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Thoughts?

I know how life was like during the Cold War, and some of the history surrounding that. The former Soviet Union amassed a buffer of puppet countries to their immediate west, called the EAST block. It was a threat to the rest of western Europe. Life in those East Block countries was not happy. My family had friends from Poland who were trapped there. On a day pass into East Berlin when I was in the Army, I spoke with a family from Czechoslovakia who told me of their miserable life there, even as they became fearful of the East German border guard casting us a stern look and tapping his rifle in hand, and they then told me they were forbidden to speak with me and abruptly broke off the conversation. I remember taking a tour of Fulda Gap, with my unit, at the East German border. I remember the heavily fortified multi-level, militarized border wall with land mines, machine gun bunkers, guard towers, bunkers and German shepherd  guard dogs and constant East German patrols. I remember how it was almost inevitable that the Soviet Army was expected to pour through Fulda Gap to swallow up the rest of Europe. I remember that at Fulda Gap, the survival time for our military was less than 30 minutes. We in the military were essentially cannon fodder to slow the Soviet advance long enough to be able to still send reinforcements to continue the fight. I remember what the economic impact and humanitarian impact and military threat to the USA would have been if the Soviet Union were not stopped. And now today, many of the East Block countries have become members of NATO. They now have had many years of living in freedom. Ukraine is not a NATO member, but they are helped by NATO and meet and counsel with NATO. The former East Block countries still live in fear of Russia. Putin  has stated the worst day in Russian history was the fall of the Soviet Union. He was a KGB officer during it's glory days. He would want nothing more than to reform the old Soviet Empire. And with a weak President Biden and a weak, indecisive NATO, there are fears that once again eastern European countries could once again fall victim to Russia,  one by one. If nothing else, with Ukraine in the pocket of Putin, it puts Russia just that much closer as a threat to the rest of Europe. Kyiv, Ukraine is only 21 hours away from me by car.  Where I am at is where Ramstein Air Base is at, and where HQ, US Air Forces Europe and Africa are at. And just 2 hours west of me in Belgium is where NATO Headquarters is at. So 21 hours by car to Kyiv, Ukraine. How far is that by fighter jet and bomber? How far is that by nuclear warhead?

 

I think all of this is why we are rushing to defend Ukraine. It is because of the threat, once again, by Russia to the rest of Europe. And what makes it even more fearful this time around is that now they seem to be a puppet of China, cooperating together in joint military exercises between Russia and China. They seem to have become buddies. So this is a global threat, not just here in Europe..

Edited January 24, 2022 by JoBri

[Dashinka 23,251]

The bigger question is will we actually rush to defend Ukraine?  Not a whole lot has been done since Russia took over Crimea back in 2014, and there has been a shooting war in Eastern Ukraine since then.  It all has to do with threats and politics.  Russia certainly does not need any more land, and if Russia was to try to take over the entire country, there would be severe economic issues with the West, but maybe not so much with Central Asia, China, Africa, etc.  It is like the Cold War all over again.  Talking to family and friends in Russia and watching the news from Russia (I know, the government controls much of the media there), not very many people think there will be a full scale war in Ukraine.  We shall see of course, and China will be watching closely.  Heck, I would not be surprised that Russia Ukraine issue is just a feint for China taking over Taiwan possibly during the Olympics where China will have a lot of ready made hostages in country.

[JoBri 545]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

The bigger question is will we actually rush to defend Ukraine?  Not a whole lot has been done since Russia took over Crimea back in 2014, and there has been a shooting war in Eastern Ukraine since then.  It all has to do with threats and politics.  Russia certainly does not need any more land, and if Russia was to try to take over the entire country, there would be severe economic issues with the West, but maybe not so much with Central Asia, China, Africa, etc.  It is like the Cold War all over again.  Talking to family and friends in Russia and watching the news from Russia (I know, the government controls much of the media there), not very many people think there will be a full scale war in Ukraine.  We shall see of course, and China will be watching closely.  Heck, I would not be surprised that Russia Ukraine issue is just a feint for China taking over Taiwan possibly during the Olympics where China will have a lot of ready made hostages in country.

I know I have zero qualifications to say what will happen. But one thing I think about is how tight Putin and China have become, doing military exercises together. Their last joint exercise just ended on October 17, 2021, just 3 months ago, and more exercises planned between Belarus, Russia, China and Iran in February. I watch for them to work in tandem, getting us mixed up with Russia, and then the Chinese getting into things with Taiwan, so that we are divided in our efforts. 

 

[Dashinka 23,251]

16 minutes ago, JoBri said:

I know I have zero qualifications to say what will happen. But one thing I think about is how tight Putin and China have become, doing military exercises together. Their last joint exercise just ended on October 17, 2021, just 3 months ago, and more exercises planned between Belarus, Russia, China and Iran in February. I watch for them to work in tandem, getting us mixed up with Russia, and then the Chinese getting into things with Taiwan, so that we are divided in our efforts. 

 

This is why I think there may be some colluding going on to some respect.  In effect, Russia has already invaded Ukraine and has taken over the Eastern part of the country not to mention the Crimea.  I know, we don't recognize this via global politics/UN, but facts are facts.  As the OP article states, Ukraine independence is really a new thing in recent history, and considering the history of Russia/Ukraine, I can somewhat understand Russia wanting to maintain a buffer state much like the DPRK is for China.  Now if China does move on Taiwan, it will have a much bigger far reaching economic impact considering how integrated businesses around the world are with business in China.

[Mike E 11,723]

America’s involvement in WW1 set up the conditions they led to WW2 which in turn set up the conditions that allowed Russia to expand into Central Europe directly or indirectly.  
 

 America’s involvement in the Yugoslavian civil war permanently transformed post Soviet Union Russia from friend to enemy.  
 

Europe wanted to “do something” about Libya, a country in its  back yard pond. A country with which the USA signed a formal pact of non aggression after it agreed to suspend its WMD program.  And Libya is an <<redacted>> show as Obama succinctly put it.  

I see a trend here.  When America gets involved in Europe people die.
 

And I am sick to death of US presidents for over 100 years taking orders from the Prime Minister of Britain.  What was the point of the revolutionary war again?
 

Let Europe solve Europe’s problems. It will be fine.  It survived the fall of Roman Empire (both of them).  It survived the Arab and Mongol invasions, the plagues, etc.  it will survive this. 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Mike E

[TBoneTX 43,060]

11 hours ago, JoBri said:

Life in those East Block countries was not happy. My family had friends from Poland who were trapped there. On a day pass into East Berlin when I was in the Army, I spoke with a family from Czechoslovakia who told me of their miserable life there, even as they became fearful of the East German border guard casting us a stern look and tapping his rifle in hand, and they then told me they were forbidden to speak with me and abruptly broke off the conversation.

I was almost a teenager when my parents took me on day-trips to Yugoslavia and Hungary.  I remember that Yugoslavia was poor and controlled, but it was nothing like Hungary.  Miles of no-man's land, heavy fortifications, and extremely unhappy-looking people.  The security arrangement distinctly struck me as follows:  they didn't care that much who got in; they cared who got OUT.  I presumed that this was because the Communists didn't want the truth to be told.  It was truly an iron curtain.

 

What disturbs and burns me the most is that so many elements in our own country actively want to emulate the systems and policies that brought on the abject misery experienced by the Iron Curtain "prisoners" who looked so hopeless and forlorn.

 

[Dashinka 23,251]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

I was almost a teenager when my parents took me on day-trips to Yugoslavia and Hungary.  I remember that Yugoslavia was poor and controlled, but it was nothing like Hungary.  Miles of no-man's land, heavy fortifications, and extremely unhappy-looking people.  The security arrangement distinctly struck me as follows:  they didn't care that much who got in; they cared who got OUT.  I presumed that this was because the Communists didn't want the truth to be told.  It was truly an iron curtain.

 

What disturbs and burns me the most is that so many elements in our own country actively want to emulate the systems and policies that brought on the abject misery experienced by the Iron Curtain "prisoners" who looked so hopeless and forlorn.

 

No doubt considering what some people suggest should be done to those that decide not to follow government orders.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

Is Sleepy Joe about to start a shooting war with Russia.  This will not end well. 

[TBoneTX 43,060]

Perhaps this should be merged with the Ukraine thread in this forum.

-----

Those clowns would love to, but they can't find either butt-cheek with both hands plus outside help.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

Perhaps this should be merged with the Ukraine thread in this forum.

-----

Those clowns would love to, but they can't find either butt-cheek with both hands plus outside help.

Yes I did not see the other . I been busy teaching esl classes at the Comirnaty College 

[TBoneTX 43,060]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Yes I did not see the other . I been busy teaching esl classes at the Comirnaty College 

Once you were blind, but now you can si, man.

[Dashinka 23,251]

9 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Yes I did not see the other . I been busy teaching esl classes at the Comirnaty College 

I pray for your students!  

[Dashinka 23,251]

Psaki Recommends Ukrainians Just Take A Kickboxing Class And Have A Margarita

 

 

To help ease the suffering of Ukraine, the Biden administration has offered to send them $68 Billion in tequila mixers and free N95 masks. 

 

Psaki later clarified that Biden has committed to evacuating Burisma executives before Putin invades.

 

https://babylonbee.com/news/psaki-recommends-ukrainians-just-take-a-kickboxing-class-and-have-a-margarita

[Dashinka 23,251]

Ukraine urges calm, saying Russian invasion not imminent

 

In Ukraine, however, authorities have sought to project calm.

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said late Monday that the situation was “under control” and that there is “no reason to panic.”

 

Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov said that, as of Monday, that Russia’s armed forces had not formed what he called battle groups, “which would have indicated that tomorrow they would launch an offensive.”

 

“There are risky scenarios. They’re possible and probable in the future,” Reznikov told Ukraine’s ICTV channel on Monday. “But as of today ... such a threat doesn’t exist.”

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/world/2022/01/25/ukraine-russia-tensions-invasion-threat/9208041002/