Not bear arms means not willing to take a full oath?

[Usagi_tsukino 89]

Hi everyone, i am about to file my application. I am answering "no" to the question if i am willing to bear arms, does this mean i am also supposed to answer "no" to the question if i am willing to take the full oath? I saw an example online where a person who refused to bear arms said "yes" to the full oath.

So:

1) answer "no" to bear arms and provide explanation only to that; OR

2) answer "no" to both questions and send a request to take a modified oath?

Thank you!

 

Also, if anyone answered "no" to the bear arms question sharing your experience would be highly appreciated!

Edited September 15, 2020 by Usagi_tsukino

[user555 195]

If you answer no to bearing arms, you have to prove why. I read somewhere that religious exemptions (7th Day Adventists) work, but one company that helped with processing cases said that out of 4,000 cases they processed, only 3 were granted an exemption based on religious views. You can try to apply for a modified oath, but you have to prove that you're mentally incapable of understanding what you're saying during the oath.   

[RunTheRoad 75]

18 hours ago, Usagi_tsukino said:

Hi everyone, i am about to file my application. I am answering "no" to the question if i am willing to bear arms, does this mean i am also supposed to answer "no" to the question if i am willing to take the full oath? I saw an example online where a person who refused to bear arms said "yes" to the full oath.

So:

1) answer "no" to bear arms and provide explanation only to that; OR

2) answer "no" to both questions and send a request to take a modified oath?

Thank you!

 

Also, if anyone answered "no" to the bear arms question sharing your experience would be highly appreciated!

I don't have an answer for this, but what an interesting question!  What would be your reason for not willing to bear arms? 

Edited September 16, 2020 by RunTheRoad

[Usagi_tsukino 89]

3 hours ago, RunTheRoad said:

I don't have an answer for this, but what an interesting question!  What would be your reason for not willing to bear arms? 

Deeply held moral and ethical values, as allowed by Volume 12: Citizenship and Naturalization, Part J, Oath of Allegiance, Chapter 3, Oath of Allegiance Modifications and Waivers [12 USCIS-PM J]: “May be eligible for modifications based on religious training and belief, or conscientious objection arising from a deeply held moral or ethical code.”

 

Anyway, i applied yesterday, i said i cant take the full oath and attached a letter explaining this and requesting to remove this line. Will see how much trouble they will give me. Let the fun begin again LOL

[ioxtremod 23]

I don't want to be this guy but why applying to get US citizenship if you don't believe in defending the US constitution? Green card gives you 99% of the benefits of citizenship without any of the responsibility.

 

[Sparkle Sparkle 913]

14 minutes ago, ioxtremod said:

I don't want to be this guy but why applying to get US citizenship if you don't believe in defending the US constitution? Green card gives you 99% of the benefits of citizenship without any of the responsibility.

 

My thoughts exactly 

 

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

15 minutes ago, ioxtremod said:

I don't want to be this guy but why applying to get US citizenship if you don't believe in defending the US constitution? Green card gives you 99% of the benefits of citizenship without any of the responsibility.

 

I didn’t take the modification but I know of people who are conscientious objectors to any form of arms. Shooting people is not the only way to defend the constitution, and the oath itself details other ways you can serve your country. 

[Neickers 46]

50 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

I didn’t take the modification but I know of people who are conscientious objectors to any form of arms. Shooting people is not the only way to defend the constitution, and the oath itself details other ways you can serve your country. 

Lets be realistic, Bearing arms means bearing arms not books or any other substitute. We cant cover the sun with one finger, and a lot of times we must do what we have to to survive. 

[ioxtremod 23]

8 minutes ago, Neickers said:

Lets be realistic, Bearing arms means bearing arms not books or any other substitute. We cant cover the sun with one finger, and a lot of times we must do what we have to to survive. 

Yeah, and it feels if you object to bear arms to protect the constitution, you're probably also against the 2nd amendment. I understand that some people immigrate in the US for various reasons but many of us really enjoy all the freedoms the US gave (well limited at the moment) and don't want to re-create the same system we have back home.

[Neickers 46]

16 minutes ago, ioxtremod said:

Yeah, and it feels if you object to bear arms to protect the constitution, you're probably also against the 2nd amendment. I understand that some people immigrate in the US for various reasons but many of us really enjoy all the freedoms the US gave (well limited at the moment) and don't want to re-create the same system we have back home.

exactly, being scared is not an excuse to not bear arms. In fact lots of people choose to be conscientious objectors not because of their belief or what not but because they are afraid thats all, but then again still not an excuse.

[Usagi_tsukino 89]

3 hours ago, ioxtremod said:

I don't want to be this guy but why applying to get US citizenship if you don't believe in defending the US constitution? Green card gives you 99% of the benefits of citizenship without any of the responsibility.

 

I believe in defending, just not in this way. And i know that it is ok to do so, otherwise they would not give us this option.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

2 hours ago, ioxtremod said:

Yeah, and it feels if you object to bear arms to protect the constitution, you're probably also against the 2nd amendment. I understand that some people immigrate in the US for various reasons but many of us really enjoy all the freedoms the US gave (well limited at the moment) and don't want to re-create the same system we have back home.

You're entitled to your opinion, but the fact remains that they allow a modified oath, so if someone is able to use it, good luck to them.

[Fr8dog 312]

I am a firm believer in the constitution (including the 2nd amendment) and would defend it in anyway needed. That includes the OP's right to their opinion and their moral convictions. I do not share OP's believes but applaud their willingness to go through the "hassle" for their believes.

 

By law, you cannot be forced to "bear arms" if you object based on moral convictions. This includes religious believes, but does not limit it to it.

Both the question and the line in the oath state "when required by law" and you can make a valid argument that you do need an amended oath since your believes are covered by law. The same could be argued for question 48.

 

If you feel that this does not cover the intend correctly, I would go with marking both questions "no" and submit an explanation for both.

Please keep us updated on the application.

[Usagi_tsukino 89]

5 hours ago, Fr8dog said:

I am a firm believer in the constitution (including the 2nd amendment) and would defend it in anyway needed. That includes the OP's right to their opinion and their moral convictions. I do not share OP's believes but applaud their willingness to go through the "hassle" for their believes.

 

By law, you cannot be forced to "bear arms" if you object based on moral convictions. This includes religious believes, but does not limit it to it.

Both the question and the line in the oath state "when required by law" and you can make a valid argument that you do need an amended oath since your believes are covered by law. The same could be argued for question 48.

 

If you feel that this does not cover the intend correctly, I would go with marking both questions "no" and submit an explanation for both.

Please keep us updated on the application.

Thank you!

[AussieTam 48]

Please let us know how you go

I have a moral objection too.