What Counts as a Coronavirus Death? | The Sketchy Cases in the Total [merged threads]

[Boiler 47,495]

Well in searching for some sort of data about what all these numbers mean I cam across this which basically covers the same questions I have had.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by TBoneTX

[Dashinka 25,885]

I have had that same question.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Dashinka

[TBoneTX 47,526]

Before seeing this, I posted a thread with an article whose author looks at figures from Italy & NYC and analyzes their interpretation.

[Boiler 47,495]

31 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Before seeing this, I posted a thread with an article whose author looks at figures from Italy & NYC and analyzes their interpretation.

Have a rep.

[Ban Hammer 14,286]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Have a rep.

[Dashinka 25,885]

I do wonder why the states count the way they do?  Is it a means to prolong government control?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

11 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I do wonder why the states count the way they do?  Is it a means to prolong government control?

 

   You can look at flu reporting to see how much of the actual number is estimated. They model a certain percentage of people not seeking treatment, a certain number dying of co-morbidities and things like that. The reverse of the video is also true. Every year people die of heart attack or pulmonary failure that was brought on by flu, but never counted as flu because testing was not done. The person might have stayed home and fought through severe symptoms, then left so weak they succumb to something else. Anyway long story short, lots of estimates and assumptions if you want to look at the method. 

 

   https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

 

 Covid-19 is going to be reported in a similar way as flu. If a person tests positive and dies, it's going to be listed as Covid-19 related and reportable to the CDC. Contrary to the video, this is highly regulated. For Covid-19 it will also be directly tied to reimbursement. 

 

  They don't generally do autopsies on patients with a confirmed primary cause of death being a highly infectious disease just to see what else was going on, and they can't just make up another cause of death. They can list contributing factors if known. We have a specific form from the CDC for patients who die of Covid-19. It lists all known preexisting conditions on the form. It also asks other specific information such as if there are any other contributing diagnosis or etiology for the illness.

[Dashinka 25,885]

43 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   You can look at flu reporting to see how much of the actual number is estimated. They model a certain percentage of people not seeking treatment, a certain number dying of co-morbidities and things like that. The reverse of the video is also true. Every year people die of heart attack or pulmonary failure that was brought on by flu, but never counted as flu because testing was not done. The person might have stayed home and fought through severe symptoms, then left so weak they succumb to something else. Anyway long story short, lots of estimates and assumptions if you want to look at the method. 

 

   https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

 

 Covid-19 is going to be reported in a similar way as flu. If a person tests positive and dies, it's going to be listed as Covid-19 related and reportable to the CDC. Contrary to the video, this is highly regulated. For Covid-19 it will also be directly tied to reimbursement. 

 

  They don't generally do autopsies on patients with a confirmed primary cause of death being a highly infectious disease just to see what else was going on, and they can't just make up another cause of death. They can list contributing factors if known. We have a specific form from the CDC for patients who die of Covid-19. It lists all known preexisting conditions on the form. It also asks other specific information such as if there are any other contributing diagnosis or etiology for the illness.

If you watched the video, it appears at least right now that if someone has tested positive for Covid19, and subsequently dies regardless of the primary cause, they are counted as a Covid19 fatality.  This seems counter to what you mentioned with the flu.  I am amazed of all the stories of people listed as dying from Covid19 where there is no way a proper autopsy could have been performed yet.  It seems the states are just reporting the absolute worst case in their numbers.

[Boiler 47,495]

Well just had a classic example, a 5 year old died in the UK who had tested positive, now the article I read mentioned the child was in the Hospital due to serious heart issues, now BBCWorld Newsj just covered the death, mentioned Covid but nothing about serious heart issues.

[Dashinka 25,885]

I wonder how many folks afflicted in the US were vaping, or smoking pot, compromising their lungs?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 hours ago, Dashinka said:

If you watched the video, it appears at least right now that if someone has tested positive for Covid19, and subsequently dies regardless of the primary cause, they are counted as a Covid19 fatality.  This seems counter to what you mentioned with the flu.  I am amazed of all the stories of people listed as dying from Covid19 where there is no way a proper autopsy could have been performed yet.  It seems the states are just reporting the absolute worst case in their numbers.

 

    The difference is all Covid-19 deaths are reportable. Flu is only reportable in the <18 age group. Reporting of adult flu deaths is not mandatory. 

 

    If someone comes in with flu and dies of a heart attack, it doesn't have to get reported as flu. If someone comes in with Covid-19 and dies of a heart attack, it still has to be reported as Covid-19  (with additional etiology).

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 hours ago, Dashinka said:

If you watched the video, it appears at least right now that if someone has tested positive for Covid19, and subsequently dies regardless of the primary cause, they are counted as a Covid19 fatality.  This seems counter to what you mentioned with the flu.  I am amazed of all the stories of people listed as dying from Covid19 where there is no way a proper autopsy could have been performed yet.  It seems the states are just reporting the absolute worst case in their numbers.

 

   As I said, unlikely they will be doing many medical autopsies on people who die of Covid-19. Autopsies are rarely done if the cause of death is known. They are generally requested by the coroner when the cause of death is suspicious or unknown, or by the family for reasons such as medical malpractice.  

[millefleur 5,052]

I don't get "cause of death" to begin with. My father passed away recently and I know for fact he died of acute kidney failure, yet his pre-existing condition was listed on the death certificate and no mention of kidney issues were added at all. He had many co-morbidities and health issues and it honestly seems like they just picked a random one and put that down as the cause of death, instead of what actually killed him in the final days.

 

Like the guy in the video says, it seems very imprecise and there's no standard in place when it comes to people with many pre-existing health issues.

[Boiler 47,495]

Yet again what we need to know is the increase in deaths over and above what would have otherwise been expected.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]