My sister got denied B2 visa - What to do to make sure she gets it next time?

[Boiler 47,456]

I would imagine the main issue is Rwanda, a poor country.

 

It does not matter as the documentation was not looked at but seems to focus on why she wants to come, not why she would want to go home.

 

As others have said all she can do is apply again.

[geowrian 22,339]

8 hours ago, Nodame said:

I get it that she has to prove that she is able to fund her own trip

No such requirement exists. Being able to afford a vacation on your own is good, but there is no reason why somebody else paying for it makes you ineligible either. There is even a spot on the DS-160 to list who is paying for the trip.

The usual issue is it's a relative, significant other, etc., in which it shows a tie to the US...when you already need to show ties abroad.

 

8 hours ago, Nodame said:

During her DS-160 application (online) there was nowhere where she could even upload any attachments or supporting documents, and that's why she brought them with her during her interview (which they asked her to do).

Correct. There is no way to upload them with the application and they usually do not look at documents at the interview. The DS-160 generally contains the information they need in the vast majority of cases. The interview is usually a formality.

It's a known fact that documents can be easily acquired for a low cost. The COs don't have the time nor resources to validate them.

 

8 hours ago, Nodame said:

Honestly, I am not sure how they base their refusal - or grant visas for that matter. Is this arbitrary? Perhaps based on the person's name?

That wouldn't explain 2 people I know with identical names who had 2 different results.

It is not arbitrary. There is a human factor into how they perceive and evaluate/weigh one's circumstances.

[Suze1 366]

Sorry for you, and your circumstance.

When relatives (brothers and sisters) could not attend their own brother's funeral, I set up video cameras, shot it, and streamed it.

Was the best we could do.

And that was 10 years ago.

No where near the same, but might provide at least some sense of presence and inclusion.

All the best to you,

Suze1

 

P.S. A friend of mine is right now building the new airport in Rwanda.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Suze1

[Nodame 0]

14 minutes ago, Suze1 said:

Sorry for you, and your circumstance.

When relatives (brothers and sisters) could not attend their own brother's funeral, I set up video cameras, shot it, and streamed it.

Was the best we could do.

And that was 10 years ago.

No where near the same, but might provide at least some sense of presence and inclusion.

All the best to you,

Suze1

 

P.S. A friend of mine is right now building the new airport in Rwanda.

@Suze1 - I am sorry to hear your relatives had to go through that. That is truly heartbreaking.

[African Zealot 1,456]

Applying for USA visitor visa from subsaharan Africa and indeed any developing country is akin to playing the lottery. I would put it at 80% luck and 20% applicant profile. The consular officers

 

Theres nothing she can do except keep applying. USA consular officers contrary to what some claim about  being trained to evaluate all the documents and the way applicants look and answer questions during the interview are just shooting in the dark.

 

The large percentage of forged documents, the little time allotted to interview and perform background checks on applicants, and people’s ability to lie smoothly while looking officers straight in the eyes in those regions translates to consular officers making but decisions which are mostly wrong.

 

Reapply she might get lucky, because it’s almost all luck.

[African Zealot 1,456]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

It is not arbitrary. There is a human factor into how they perceive and evaluate/weigh one's circumstances.

 

It’s as arbitrary as it comes. Consular officers get fooled all the time. If it weren’t almost totally arbitrary a whopping 45% of Djibouti visitor visa holders wouldn’t ultimately overstay their visas😂🤣😂. People find it hard to concede the reality that there’s little rhyme or reason to the process.

 

Applying for and being successfully issued a visitors visa from a developing country is as determined by luck as anything which is why different officers arrive at different conclusions when evaluating the same applicant.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/nations-the-white-house-is-targeting-for-visa-overstay-rates-account-for-small-number-of-violators-omit-brazil-venezuela-china/2019/04/24/956ef970-65d7-11e9-82ba-fcfeff232e8f_story.html

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Ray.Bonaquist

[SusieQQQ 11,588]

Djibouti? Got like 5 people lol

Less flippantly 

Denial rates vary widely across sub-Saharan Africa, from mid single digits to above 70% or higher. The fact that countries vary from each other, as well as show some pattern of consistency over time, is a strong indication that it is not “80% arbitrary”. 

[geowrian 22,339]

1 hour ago, Ray.Bonaquist said:

It’s as arbitrary as it comes. Consular officers get fooled all the time. If it weren’t almost totally arbitrary a whopping 45% of Djibouti visitor visa holders wouldn’t ultimately overstay their visas😂🤣😂. People find it hard to concede the reality that there’s little rhyme or reason to the process.

 

Applying for and being successfully issued a visitors visa from a developing country is as determined by luck as anything which is why different officers arrive at different conclusions when evaluating the same applicant.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/nations-the-white-house-is-targeting-for-visa-overstay-rates-account-for-small-number-of-violators-omit-brazil-venezuela-china/2019/04/24/956ef970-65d7-11e9-82ba-fcfeff232e8f_story.html

Yes they are fooled sometimes. Possibly even often. And they make mistakes.

That said, the statistics provided do not tell the full story. The CO determines intent at the time of the application. Those numbers do not cover, nor could they, who changed their intent after the visa was issued.

 

It also does not take into account all the visas that are refused.

Say there are 1,000 applicants. Say the CO refuses 500 of the visas and issues 500 of them. Then 25% of those issued overstay.

Does that mean the CO was "fooled all the time"? It may mean they were right up to 87.5% of the time. Only 12.5% of the time they issued a visa to somebody who - over the entire validity period of the visa, which may be up to 10 years - overstayed.

This, of course, ignores that 500 people were refused a visa where some/many of them may not have overstayed. But there is no way to measure that. They can only measure the number of people who actually did overstay.

Edit: To put it another way, say a CO refuses 99 B visas and issues 1. That one person overstays. That does not mean they were fooled 100% of the time.

 

Also, as a result of said overstays, future applicants are more heavily scrutinized.

For example, in FY18 Djibouti had 403 NIV entrants who were expected to leave that year. 180 of them overstayed. (https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/cbp_-_fiscal_year_2018_entry_exit_overstay_report.pdf, p17)

In FY19, only 332 NIVs were issued to them, of which 204 were B visas. https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2019AnnualReport/FY19AnnualReport-TableXIX.pdf  and https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2018AnnualReport/FY18AnnualReport - TableXVII.pdf

Now Djibouti has an  85.35% B adjusted refusal rate. https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY19.pdf

NOTE: Adjusted means they only count a single person once even if they apply multiple times. If they are subsequently issued a visa, they are not counted in that statistic. The individual visa application refusal rate is even higher.

 

I entirely reject the notion that one's circumstances are entirely or mostly irrelevant to the visa application decision made by the CO. Certain factors are beneficial. Certain factors are detrimental.

Edited February 12, 2020 by geowrian

[African Zealot 1,456]

38 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Yes they are fooled sometimes. Possibly even often. And they make mistakes.

That said, the statistics provided do not tell the full story. The CO determines intent at the time of the application. Those numbers do not cover, nor could they, who changed their intent after the visa was issued.

 

It also does not take into account all the visas that are refused.

Say there are 1,000 applicants. Say the CO refuses 500 of the visas and issues 500 of them. Then 25% of those issued overstay.

Does that mean the CO was "fooled all the time"? It may mean they were right up to 87.5% of the time. Only 12.5% of the time they issued a visa to somebody who - over the entire validity period of the visa, which may be up to 10 years - overstayed.

This, of course, ignores that 500 people were refused a visa where some/many of them may not have overstayed. But there is no way to measure that. They can only measure the number of people who actually did overstay.

Edit: To put it another way, say a CO refuses 99 B visas and issues 1. That one person overstays. That does not mean they were fooled 100% of the time.

 

 

NOTE: Adjusted means they only count a single person once even i they apply multiple times. If they are subsequently issued a visa, theya re not counted in that statistic. The the individual visa application refusal rate is even higher.

 

I entirely reject the notion that one's circumstances are entirely or mostly irrelevant to the visa application decision made by the CO. Certain factors are beneficial. Certain factors are detrimental.

Conceding that they are likely fooled often is good enough for me. Of course saying they get fooled all the time is hyperbole and yes absolutely certain factors are detrimental.

 

[geowrian 22,339]

1 minute ago, Ray.Bonaquist said:

Conceding that they are likely fooled often is good enough for me.

Not sure where that was stated...?

[jaysaldi 213]

12 hours ago, Nodame said:

She had her employment letter and she had copies of my Green card with her, she even had both our birth certificates to prove that we are sisters. I gave her a letter of invitation, my bank statements, she even took her own bank statements, and the title and pictures of her house and family - In summary, she had all kinds of supporting documents that proves that she will be well taken care of, and that she definitely is planning on going back to her country and her family after my wedding.

I appreciate they didn't look at her documents, but I don't think she should have brought a letter of invitation from you, a copy of your green card, or your bank statements.  Also, her goal should be to convince the consular officer that she will be "well taken care of" by relatives in the USA. Her goal should be to convince the officer that she can take care of herself.

I think the wedding invitation plus birth certificates plus proof of her life in Rwanda (employment letter, medical certificates, house title, etc.) is what she should bring the next time. 

 

My impression is that the consular officers review each file for 30-90 seconds and mostly make up their minds before calling the applicant up to the window for the interview. Maybe the consular officer read her file very quickly and missed that she was a doctor and head of hospital department. They might have even missed that she was going for a wedding (though "wedding" is a common fraudulent reason too).

 

Perhaps she should force her work as a doctor and her travel for wedding  into the conversation if possible, like this:

 

Q: "Good morning, how are you?

A:  "I'm well, I'm Dr. Nodame, nice to meet you."

Q: "Who are you visiting?"

A: "I'd like to go to the USA for my sister's wedding for two weeks, I'm the head of neurology at Kigali General Hospital and I can only take two weeks vacation because I've got lives to save here."

 

Q: "When was she born?"
A: "She's three years younger than I am and she has asked me to be the maid of honor at her wedding. My husband and children will stay here."

 

Q: "What is your relationship?"
A: "We're sisters, she's an accountant and I'm the head of neurology at Kigali General Hospital."

The examples above might be extreme and obnoxious, but my point is that regardless of what questions they ask, she should answer the questions in such a way that highlights that she's a doctor and that she is going for a particular very special reason for which a doctor might be expected to be pulled away from her duties for a week or two.  

 

Otherwise, if they only glanced at her file for a few seconds they may think she's just another poor uneducated Rwandan asking to go to the USA to "visit" a relative.

 

 

[African Zealot 1,456]

27 minutes ago, jaysaldi said:

My impression is that the consular officers review each file for 30-90 seconds and mostly make up their minds before calling the applicant up to the window for the interview. 

✅✅✅ closet to 30 than 90. 

[jaysaldi 213]

1 minute ago, Ray.Bonaquist said:

✅✅✅ closet to 30 than 90. 

Yeah, it's sort of like when you fill out medical history forms at the doctor's office and then the doctor comes into the examination room after reading your chart for 10 seconds.   When they ask you questions, assume they know nothing and have learned nothing from your chart.

 

 

[SA M 7]

1 hour ago, jaysaldi said:

I appreciate they didn't look at her documents, but I don't think she should have brought a letter of invitation from you, a copy of your green card, or your bank statements.  Also, her goal should be to convince the consular officer that she will be "well taken care of" by relatives in the USA. Her goal should be to convince the officer that she can take care of herself.

I think the wedding invitation plus birth certificates plus proof of her life in Rwanda (employment letter, medical certificates, house title, etc.) is what she should bring the next time. 

 

My impression is that the consular officers review each file for 30-90 seconds and mostly make up their minds before calling the applicant up to the window for the interview. Maybe the consular officer read her file very quickly and missed that she was a doctor and head of hospital department. They might have even missed that she was going for a wedding (though "wedding" is a common fraudulent reason too).

 

Perhaps she should force her work as a doctor and her travel for wedding  into the conversation if possible, like this:

 

Q: "Good morning, how are you?

A:  "I'm well, I'm Dr. Nodame, nice to meet you."

Q: "Who are you visiting?"

A: "I'd like to go to the USA for my sister's wedding for two weeks, I'm the head of neurology at Kigali General Hospital and I can only take two weeks vacation because I've got lives to save here."

 

Q: "When was she born?"
A: "She's three years younger than I am and she has asked me to be the maid of honor at her wedding. My husband and children will stay here."

 

Q: "What is your relationship?"
A: "We're sisters, she's an accountant and I'm the head of neurology at Kigali General Hospital."

The examples above might be extreme and obnoxious, but my point is that regardless of what questions they ask, she should answer the questions in such a way that highlights that she's a doctor and that she is going for a particular very special reason for which a doctor might be expected to be pulled away from her duties for a week or two.  

 

Otherwise, if they only glanced at her file for a few seconds they may think she's just another poor uneducated Rwandan asking to go to the USA to "visit" a relative.

 

 

Highly recommended since it's the only possible option!  

[AGF 146]

I was denied a visitors visa in 2018, and that same thing happened to me: was asked who I’m visiting, then outright denial without looking at my documents.  What I can think of right now is to provide her with the wedding invitation, complete with details ( when, where, who ) of the wedding itself ( list of primary and secondary sponsors? ) and the reception ( perhaps a confirmation letter in an official letterhead of the caterer’s company name or something like that ? ).. she can “proactively” but politely of course, show this to the IO.. my friend and his wife did this, both of them have never travelled outside our home country, and they tried to attend his brothers wedding in the US, and they were granted 10-year multiple entry visas. No guarantees that this will work for your sister, but that’s a real story to show that it is indeed possible to be granted a visitor visa on the merit of attending a family member’s wedding. Best of luck !

Edited February 12, 2020 by AGF