Moderate Wine Consumption Linked to Greater Life Expectancy

[laylalex 7,245]

Quote

 

"Based on human data and long-term studies, moderate drinking as a practice has a lower risk of developing heart disease, diabetes and can enhance cognitive function," Harvard associate professor of nutrition and study co-author Dr. Qi Sun told Wine Spectator. "That's why we consider moderate drinking one of the five low-risk factors in the study."

The results were promising for moderate drinkers. "When we included only four lifestyle factors without alcohol, women who adhered to all four low-risk lifestyle factors had 9.5 years' (men: 8.8 years) longer life expectancy free of the major chronic diseases than those with none of these factors," the authors write. "After further inclusion of moderate alcohol consumption, women who adhered to all five low-risk factors had 12.5 years' (men: 9.6 years) longer life expectancy free of the major chronic diseases than those with none of these factors."

...

The team defined moderate alcohol intake by U.S. guidelines as one drink a day for women and two for men. But one co-author, Harvard epidemiology and nutrition professor Dr. Eric Rimm, says he believes the "greatest evidence shows moderate drinking three to five days a week or every other day to be most beneficial."

 

Excellent news! Bottoms up. 🍷

https://www.winespectator.com/articles/moderate-wine-consumption-linked-to-greater-life-expectancy

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

If only you could recognize that drinking American wine extends life, while French wine actually shortens life.  *sigh*

[Steeleballz 7,550]

   The study in general confirmed what was probably already known. There are health benefits associated with polyphenol intake from wine. At a certain point the negative effects of alcohol are worse than the benefits. Up to that point it is probably better for you. Finally for any given person, there is no real way to determine ahead of time what that ideal limit is. The good news for people who don't care for wine is that you can get the same benefits from grapes. 

 

    They kind of ruined it by talking about alcohol increasing HDL as a benefit. People with alcohol induced liver disease also tend to have high HDL. There is a reason for that and it's not related to good health. 

 

   The biggest caveat for these long term studies is they are basically questionnaires. Asking people how much wine they have had to drink per day (on average) over the last 2 years is a bit iffy to come to any major conclusions. Especially given that those who drank the most are probably the least likely to actually remember. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

6 hours ago, laylalex said:

Excellent news! Bottoms up. 🍷

https://www.winespectator.com/articles/moderate-wine-consumption-linked-to-greater-life-expectancy

How did I know that this came from you...… You are probably a promoter for fine French wine

[OriZ 3,157]

I don't really agree with their definition of moderate. To be honest I think 2 glasses a day is too much...I'm more inclined to agree with the 3 to 5 days a week or every other day comment. More than that and you end up getting some bad news from a doctor that you have 6 months left to live and go "but I've been living such a healthy lifestyle"

[yuna628 9,528]

7 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

   The study in general confirmed what was probably already known. There are health benefits associated with polyphenol intake from wine. At a certain point the negative effects of alcohol are worse than the benefits. Up to that point it is probably better for you. Finally for any given person, there is no real way to determine ahead of time what that ideal limit is. The good news for people who don't care for wine is that you can get the same benefits from grapes. 

 

    They kind of ruined it by talking about alcohol increasing HDL as a benefit. People with alcohol induced liver disease also tend to have high HDL. There is a reason for that and it's not related to good health. 

 

   The biggest caveat for these long term studies is they are basically questionnaires. Asking people how much wine they have had to drink per day (on average) over the last 2 years is a bit iffy to come to any major conclusions. Especially given that those who drank the most are probably the least likely to actually remember. 

If you can get the same benefit, from say grapes or a non-alcoholic version of a grape or sparkling drink - then why aren't they tested in these kind of studies? You'd think people would want to maximize the health benefits of an enjoyable drink that provides benefits, minus the negative effects of the alcohol which causes damage?

[90DayFinancier 910]

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

If you can get the same benefit, from say grapes or a non-alcoholic version of a grape or sparkling drink - then why aren't they tested in these kind of studies? You'd think people would want to maximize the health benefits of an enjoyable drink that provides benefits, minus the negative effects of the alcohol which causes damage?

There is a fair amount of research on the topic. Here is a summary:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/food-science/polyphenol

 

I don't have the skills to say which study is conclusive enough to start or stop any behavior.

 

Like anything else, unless there is a pot of gold at the end of the medical patent rainbow, you won't see serious research. 

 

I have a friend who sells Shaklee and swears by Vivix. It does have some research around it.  It has 100x times the compounds you would find in a glass of wine.

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by 90DayFinancier

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

If you can get the same benefit, from say grapes or a non-alcoholic version of a grape or sparkling drink - then why aren't they tested in these kind of studies? You'd think people would want to maximize the health benefits of an enjoyable drink that provides benefits, minus the negative effects of the alcohol which causes damage?

The article isn't educating at all, it's basically confirmation bias for wine drinkers. 

 

First, it's information from people's blood workup, segmenting them based on self-answered surveys, which is a pretty poor way to dictate health conclusions. 

 

Second, one of those studies this study "studies" singles out wine:

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-11/aha-mai110316.php

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161114110110.htm

 

Quote

There weren't enough wine drinkers to test wine's effects on HDL, researchers said. Further studies are needed to determine if this effect is observed in other populations, such as a U.S. population, and whether there are significant and clinically-relevant outcomes based on the type of alcohol consumed.

 

Next:

 

https://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Alcohol-and-Cardiovascular-Disease_UCM_305173_Article.jsp?appName=MobileApp

 

Quote

Over the past several decades, many studies have been published in science journals about how drinking alcohol may be associated with reduced mortality due to heart disease in some populations. Some researchers have suggested that the benefit may be due to wine, especially red wine. Others are examining the potential benefits of components in red wine such as flavonoids and other antioxidants in reducing heart disease risk. Some of these components may be found in other foods such as grapes or red grape juice. The linkage reported in many of these studies may be due to other lifestyle factors rather than alcohol. Such factors may include increased physical activity, and a diet high in fruits and vegetables and lower in saturated fats No direct comparison trials have been done to determine the specific effect of wine or other alcohol on the risk of developing heart disease or stroke.

d

Quote

The best-known effect of alcohol is a small increase in HDL cholesterol. However, regular physical activity is another effective way to raise HDL cholesterol, and niacin can be prescribed to raise it to a greater degree. Alcohol or some substances such as resveratrol found in alcoholic beverages may prevent platelets in the blood from sticking together. That may reduce clot formation and reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke. (Aspirin may help reduce blood clotting in a similar way.) How alcohol or wine affects cardiovascular risk merits further research, but right now the American Heart Association does not recommend drinking wine or any other form of alcohol to gain these potential benefits.

 

https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/nutrition-basics/alcohol-and-heart-health

Quote

 

No research has proved a cause-and-effect link between drinking alcohol and better heart health.

Components in red wine such as flavonoids and other antioxidants can potentially reduce heart disease risk, but they can also be found in other foods like grapes or red grape juice or blueberries.

It's unclear whether red wine is directly associated with the health benefits seen in some studies, or whether other factors are at play. It might be that moderate wine drinkers are more likely to have a healthier diet and lifestyle — including physical activity and lots of fruits and vegetables.

The best-known positive health effect of alcohol is a small increase in HDL, or good cholesterol. But regular physical activity is a more effective way to raise HDL cholesterol.

The American Heart Association does not recommend drinking wine or any other form of alcohol to gain potential health benefits. Instead, take steps to lower cholesterol, control high blood pressure, manage weight, get enough physical activity, stay away from tobacco and follow a healthy diet.

 

Quote

don’t start drinking for unproven health benefits.

 

Basically, there's nothing proven, which can be expected of studies that try to analyze health outcomes based on surveys. 

 

So, clearly, there's a lot more complexities to the issue of alcohol in general (mechanisms of how the body handles the components within specific organs, the bloodstream, etc.), with wine being no exclusion, there's no proof whatsoever that drinking wine is going to contribute to longer lifespan. Rather, the only logical conclusion can be generally inferred is that drinking wine or any alcohol in minor amounts is at least likely not going to hurt someone (low risk) if they already drink wine and already are healthy. It's a very specific segment of multiple criteria that these dubious conclusions try to cater to, that a significant amount of the US populace don't fit in comprehensively. Thus, the only conclusion.. confirmation bias.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

If you can get the same benefit, from say grapes or a non-alcoholic version of a grape or sparkling drink - then why aren't they tested in these kind of studies? You'd think people would want to maximize the health benefits of an enjoyable drink that provides benefits, minus the negative effects of the alcohol which causes damage?

 

 

 

  Many of these population studies have been going on 30+ years, which means they started in the 70's or 80's.  Mostly they are not research studies per se, they are questionnaires following large groups over time. They ask them about things like how much they smoked, drank alcohol, ate red meat and followed the data for years until people got ill or died etc.  Long story short (and partly a guess) is that nobody cared about grapes back in the 70's or 80's, and it's not easy to go back and ask how many grapes you ate for the last 30 years. 

 

  Generally though, the antioxidants in wine come directly from the grapes. The question would be if there is any additional protective benefit from the fermentation process and the level of alcohol consumed. There are many plausible explanations for why there could be, and there does appear to be up to a point, but I am not sure they have identified why. I always weigh that against the fact that alcohol is a toxin, and something your liver gives high priority to removing from your body as fast as possible, even to the extent of putting other metabolic processes on the back burner while it is doing that.

 

  I also think for this particular study, they chose a large group of nurses because they expected them to be a health conscious group with some understanding of physiology. I kind of question myself then, is there any confirmation bias at work here? Did people live longer because they drink wine, or used olive oil, or avoided red meat, or exercised more, or was it because they were just a more health conscious group in general. Did they go to the doctor more instead of ignoring symptoms? There are so many health factors that were not tracked, that I think they have to interpret the data with caution in that regard.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 hours ago, OriZ said:

I don't really agree with their definition of moderate. To be honest I think 2 glasses a day is too much...I'm more inclined to agree with the 3 to 5 days a week or every other day comment. More than that and you end up getting some bad news from a doctor that you have 6 months left to live and go "but I've been living such a healthy lifestyle"

 

  To a certain extent, it's very hard to even define moderation. I don't even think it's a great idea to give generic recommendations on amounts. The health/nutrition/fitness industry tends to get so lazy about this, but there is just no way to know what the ideal amount of wine is for any person. There are so many factors that affect alcohol metabolism. Five glasses a week could be something you tolerate well, but for me it could be excess for and causing harm over time.  I agree though, I do suspect the diminishing returns for the benefits of wine drinking kick in more quickly than they suggested for most people.

[90DayFinancier 910]

49 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

 

 

  Many of these population studies have been going on 30+ years, which means they started in the 70's or 80's.  Mostly they are not research studies per se, they are questionnaires following large groups over time. They ask them about things like how much they smoked, drank alcohol, ate red meat and followed the data for years until people got ill or died etc.  Long story short (and partly a guess) is that nobody cared about grapes back in the 70's or 80's, and it's not easy to go back and ask how many grapes you ate for the last 30 years. 

 

  Generally though, the antioxidants in wine come directly from the grapes. The question would be if there is any additional protective benefit from the fermentation process and the level of alcohol consumed. There are many plausible explanations for why there could be, and there does appear to be up to a point, but I am not sure they have identified why. I always weigh that against the fact that alcohol is a toxin, and something your liver gives high priority to removing from your body as fast as possible, even to the extent of putting other metabolic processes on the back burner while it is doing that.

 

  I also think for this particular study, they chose a large group of nurses because they expected them to be a health conscious group with some understanding of physiology. I kind of question myself then, is there any confirmation bias at work here? Did people live longer because they drink wine, or used olive oil, or avoided red meat, or exercised more, or was it because they were just a more health conscious group in general. Did they go to the doctor more instead of ignoring symptoms? There are so many health factors that were not tracked, that I think they have to interpret the data with caution in that regard.

I was a huge fan of the Mediterranean diet (which includes wine btw) and embraced the lifestyle. Less red meat, dairy and more nuts, wholegrains and vegetables. I lost weight when I was religious about it.

 

The science seemed conclusive on the health benefits based on a Spanish study but it was retracted based on some issues with how random the assignment diets were.

 

Even if the report is off a bit, there are benefits, the diet is manageable and the food is delicious.  Beyond the diet the philosophy promoted eating together and enjoying company.

 

I think I am going to dust that book of again, for research.

 

 

 

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

4 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

I was a huge fan of the Mediterranean diet (which includes wine btw) and embraced the lifestyle. Less red meat, dairy and more nuts, wholegrains and vegetables. I lost weight when I was religious about it.

 

The science seemed conclusive on the health benefits based on a Spanish study but it was retracted based on some issues with how random the assignment diets were.

 

Even if the report is off a bit, there are benefits, the diet is manageable and the food is delicious.  Beyond the diet the philosophy promoted eating together and enjoying company.

 

I think I am going to dust that book of again, for research.

I am a big fan of the Mexican diet which consists of large amounts tacos, refried beans, and Tequila. I don't tend to lose any weight from it unfortunately but I do have some dang good times

[OriZ 3,157]

8 hours ago, yuna628 said:

If you can get the same benefit, from say grapes or a non-alcoholic version of a grape or sparkling drink - then why aren't they tested in these kind of studies? You'd think people would want to maximize the health benefits of an enjoyable drink that provides benefits, minus the negative effects of the alcohol which causes damage?

I agree. Everyone knows alcohol could be bad for your liver, but most people aren't even aware it increases your risk of certain cancers as well, as well as other damaging effects. You don't need a research on alcohol to know something like resveratrol is good for you. I would be very careful with alcohol, however.

[90DayFinancier 910]

35 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

I am a big fan of the Mexican diet which consists of large amounts tacos, refried beans, and Tequila. I don't tend to lose any weight from it unfortunately but I do have some dang good times

Oh. I have a spot for "mole de Puebla" in Portland. Almonds not peanuts is the trick.

muysabroso!  

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

1 hour ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Oh. I have a spot for "mole de Puebla" in Portland. Almonds not peanuts is the trick.

muysabroso!  

Hey @laylalex when and if you go back to Pasadena sometime you need to check out El Patron Mexican restaurant on Lake up in Altadena. It is one of the best Mexican restaurants I have ever been to.