Joe Biden says coal miners should 'learn to program'

[TBoneTX 43,284]

11 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Scripting and coding are basic skills in the information economy.

The only code that Biden probably knows is Morse.

[TBoneTX 43,284]

5 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

You are the T-bone of meme posting.

Do not mention anyone in the same breath as our august self, January though it be!

5 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

now THAT is an insult. 

Fake news!!!  Reported!!!!!!!

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,321]

14 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

You are the T-bone of meme posting.

You deserve a perma ban for that 

[Neonred 3,454]

9 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

The only code that Biden probably knows is Morse.

And you can bet he would screw that up too.

[yuna628 9,533]

21 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Working with several millennial IT professionals, it seems their training is lacking in failure mode effects analysis.  They seem to think that glitches which come up with their written code are just minor issues to be corrected in the future.  Of course when that code impacts large numbers of products in the field, it can become quite costly which could have been avoided if the problems were analyzed prior to putting the code in production.

Talked to husband about this. He was taught by old school somewhat eccentric professors that emphasized getting it done right the first time. Not every teacher will take this position. However, we are all human and errors are possible. He gave me the example when he once made a pretty simple game. He tested it for a long time and felt he had accounted for every possibility. Within ten minutes I had broken that game. He was frustrated with me. 😅 His current job requires he have responsibility for a system across all campuses. If it's broken or buggy, students and staff can't get the help they need. So it's important to make sure things work and are right the first time. In our society sometimes under pressure, there is the rush to be lazy in programming skill. This is not really a reflection of the knowledge of the programmer, but perhaps in their ethics and working environment. Do they have enough time to devote properly? Are demands being made of them that are unrealistic? 

20 hours ago, laylalex said:

Just asked Al about this as he just woke up and is the person around here who codes. He said in his experience that's a leadership problem more than a generational one -- they had to learn it from somewhere. 

We need really good teachers in all fields these days.

20 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

The point you are choosing to miss is, he said if you can dig coal you can learn to code, which is absurd. Now had he said. We must invest in programs to teach them other trades, then no big deal.

Again I don't think he said it in the best way. A person can learn to be a miner and a person can learn to code, just as I think a person could learn to do any job if they put their minds to it. The only thing holding back a person is themselves. You need to have a heart and mind for it, if that is what you want to do.

[90DayFinancier 910]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Talked to husband about this. He was taught by old school somewhat eccentric professors that emphasized getting it done right the first time. Not every teacher will take this position. However, we are all human and errors are possible. He gave me the example when he once made a pretty simple game. He tested it for a long time and felt he had accounted for every possibility. Within ten minutes I had broken that game. He was frustrated with me. 😅 His current job requires he have responsibility for a system across all campuses. If it's broken or buggy, students and staff can't get the help they need. So it's important to make sure things work and are right the first time. In our society sometimes under pressure, there is the rush to be lazy in programming skill. This is not really a reflection of the knowledge of the programmer, but perhaps in their ethics and working environment. Do they have enough time to devote properly? Are demands being made of them that are unrealistic? 

 

There are quite a few different theories in code development/ deployment and operations and often the lines get blurred. 

In the project paradigm "fast, cheap or good, pick any two"

 

Here are the major practices:

 

Waterfall: if you have something mission critical, like the 737, you want "MIL spec" code with solid requirements, test plans, resource plans and time lines understood and agreed up front. Documentation to operate and troubleshoot are included. Slow, expensive and inflexible. Apparently "lean and agile" thinking impacted some of the decisions that went into the 737 autopilot with fatal consequences. 

 

On the other hand, if you are creating a mobile app, waterfall is too cumbersome.

 

Agile: development working direct business stakeholders in short "sprints", frequently deployed. Focus on the minimum viable product that meets the need, Test as you go.

As the competition and business needs change, the features get reprioritized. 

 

DevOps : Agile coding tied to a cultural obsession to constantly improving. Requires close collaboration. You see this approach in Amazon, Google, O365. 

In your husband's scenario: a new release breaks the user experience but the DevOps approach allows for an agile correction ASAP and without fingerpointing.

 

 

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

We need really good teachers in all fields these days.

Again I don't think he said it in the best way. A person can learn to be a miner and a person can learn to code, just as I think a person could learn to do any job if they put their minds to it. The only thing holding back a person is themselves. You need to have a heart and mind for it, if that is what you want to do.

 

[TBoneTX 43,284]

13 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Waterfall: if you have something mission critical, like the 737, you want "MIL spec" code with solid requirements, test plans, resource plans and time lines understood and agreed up front. Documentation to operate and troubleshoot are included. Slow, expensive and inflexible. Apparently "lean and agile" thinking impacted some of the decisions that went into the 737 autopilot with fatal consequences. 

 

On the other hand, if you are creating a mobile app, waterfall is too cumbersome.

 

Agile: development working direct business stakeholders in short "sprints", frequently deployed. Focus on the minimum viable product that meets the need, Test as you go.

As the competition and business needs change, the features get reprioritized. 

 

DevOps : Agile coding tied to a cultural obsession to constantly improving. Requires close collaboration. You see this approach in Amazon, Google, O365. 

In your husband's scenario: a new release breaks the user experience but the DevOps approach allows for an agile correction ASAP and without fingerpointing.

Headache... aspirin... double dose...

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

24 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I don’t think you are interpreting her words correctly.  At least, that’s not how I took what she said, but I’ll shut up and let her speak for herself.

Using a personal story to conflate the intentions of someone else.. unfortunate if you don't see it. This is what's been done throughout the impeachment hearings, where people justify bad behaviors (undermining the President) by certain actors, conflating personal stories and feelings as relevant. Joe Biden grew up in Scranton, he knows how important mining and production is in that region, and that telling these people learn to program signals the kind of patent disconnect, and overall contempt, Hillary showed in 2016 to certain demographics. Trying to pretend he had good intentions of this is clearly a stunt, further demonstrated with an utterly irrelevant personal story that doesn't speak to Biden whatsoever. The dishonest intent is clearly there.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[TBoneTX 43,284]

[Mod hat on]

A snarky post and reactive posts have been removed.

Someone is fortunate not to be administratively actioned, but no more rope hereafter.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,321]

2 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Using a personal story to conflate the intentions of someone else.. unfortunate if you don't see it. This is what's been done throughout the impeachment hearings, where people justify bad behaviors (undermining the President) by certain actors, conflating personal stories and feelings as relevant. Joe Biden grew up in Scranton, he knows how important mining and production is in that region, and that telling these people learn to program signals the kind of patent disconnect, and overall contempt, Hillary showed in 2016 to certain demographics. Trying to pretend he had good intentions of this is clearly a stunt, further demonstrated with an utterly irrelevant personal story that doesn't speak to Biden whatsoever. The dishonest intent is clearly there.

clearly proves he is just another liberal elitist, with no clue just like Hillary. surely they all could learn brain surgery if they just put their mind to it

[Boiler 43,618]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

clearly proves he is just another liberal elitist, with no clue just like Hillary. surely they all could learn brain surgery if they just put their mind to it

Pun intended?

[90DayFinancier 910]

6 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

clearly proves he is just another liberal elitist, with no clue just like Hillary. surely they all could learn brain surgery if they just put their mind to it

I have worked around technicians, testers and programmers for two decades, regardless of how proud they act, what they do ain't brain surgery. There is a lot of work in IT. Project, support, hr, technical writing. Once you get your first gig, there is plenty of opportunity.

 

I think who is being elitist are those who insist that these folks need to stay in these risky (Mitch McConnell refuses to bring black lung funding to the Senate) body breaking jobs like they were serfs born to the coal mine.

 

 

I don't know why Americans continue to lie to coal workers: production will drop below 1950s levels and will not return. Any rebound in the us will be with automation and not workers.

 

 

 

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Using a personal story to conflate the intentions of someone else.. unfortunate if you don't see it. This is what's been done throughout the impeachment hearings, where people justify bad behaviors (undermining the President) by certain actors, conflating personal stories and feelings as relevant. Joe Biden grew up in Scranton, he knows how important mining and production is in that region, and that telling these people learn to program signals the kind of patent disconnect, and overall contempt, Hillary showed in 2016 to certain demographics. Trying to pretend he had good intentions of this is clearly a stunt, further demonstrated with an utterly irrelevant personal story that doesn't speak to Biden whatsoever. The dishonest intent is clearly there.

My takeaway from the part of her post that you made bold was that anyone can do anything they want if they set their mind to it.  Not that she was making excuses for what Biden said.