Your country no longer exists... Where were you born?

[dstrausser83 14]

So what happens if your country no longer exists. Like if you were born in West Germany or Czechoslovakia or many other countries like in the U.S.S.R.? How does that work?

Would you still put down your original country of birth? Or the new country? Would the new country still have your birth records? Would the birth certificate be changed to show the new country as your place of birth? How does that all work.

How much could this complicate immigration?

Just wondering with a few hypotheticals here. I'm sure anybody could see how this could be a headache for somebody immigrating.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Topic has been moved from Immigration News Discussion forum to General Immigration Discussion as a more appropriate location for this topic. (A good topic, by the way).

[Penguin_ie 5,986]

The country's name change won't delay immigration by itself, as USCIS will have a record of that. I would put the name of the country as it was when you were born, and maybe a quick mention of the name change in your cover letter.

Where it could delay the process is if the country is wear torn or otherwise civil documents (birth and marriage certs etc) are unavailable. Mostly the state department recognises that and will not require them, but it could still cause some delays.

[pushbrk 12,108]

The country's name change won't delay immigration by itself, as USCIS will have a record of that. I would put the name of the country as it was when you were born, and maybe a quick mention of the name change in your cover letter.

Where it could delay the process is if the country is wear torn or otherwise civil documents (birth and marriage certs etc) are unavailable. Mostly the state department recognises that and will not require them, but it could still cause some delays.

Correct. You were born where you were born. USCIS and the Consular Officers are prepared to deal with this. Although, for example, I doubt it would make any difference whether you indicated Germany or West Germany because you are also asked the name of the City.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

The policy for US passports is to go by the current country name, actually. I am not sure if this extends to all immigration and travel-related documents. And, if a person objects to the current political scheme in their place of birth, the person can elect to put the city name only on their passport.

[pushbrk 12,108]

The policy for US passports is to go by the current country name, actually. I am not sure if this extends to all immigration and travel-related documents. And, if a person objects to the current political scheme in their place of birth, the person can elect to put the city name only on their passport.

Great, but the question was about "place of birth", not passports. Separate animals here. For example, a 40 year old born in Kiev, was born in the USSR, but now carries a Ukraine passport. It's the opposite problem to that posed in the OP's question but illustrates a similar point. What was, was and what is, is.

Edited February 22, 2013 by pushbrk

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

The question was about how a change in the political structure of your "place of birth" is handled with US immigration. I supplied information about how it is handled with regard to US passports for foreign-born people, as they were (most often) once immigrants.

If that 40-year old becomes a US citizen and gets a US passport, the passport will say "place of birth: Kiev, Ukraine," not USSR.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

I think the real question is do they enter countries with some sort of drop down menu and are historical names on that list? If not, it is putting a lot of faith into an IO to know which current country someone meant. If someone lists some random city in Czechoslovakia, how is an IO to know whether that is Slovakia or the Czech Republic now? I suppose they could google, but I wouldn't trust it.

[pushbrk 12,108]

I think the real question is do they enter countries with some sort of drop down menu and are historical names on that list? If not, it is putting a lot of faith into an IO to know which current country someone meant. If someone lists some random city in Czechoslovakia, how is an IO to know whether that is Slovakia or the Czech Republic now? I suppose they could google, but I wouldn't trust it.

It doesn't matter. Place of birth is simply a question on the form. What USCIS or Dept. of State does with the information is not particularly relevant to how you answer the question. Questions need to be answered accurately. Frankly, I doubt it matters whether that 40 year old answers Kiev Ukraine or Kiev USSR, but Kiev USSR is the "accurate" answer because it will match the birth certificate.

If an adjudicator or CO is going to be so stupid as to think, "Why does the birth certificate say USSR, if the passport says Ukraine?", let their supervisor explain it to them. If you put the adjudicator in the position of saying, "Why does the I-130 say this person was born in Ukraine but their birth certificate says USSR?" its because you filled out the I-130 incorrectly.

Beware the rule of unintended consequences.

Edited February 22, 2013 by pushbrk

[pushbrk 12,108]

I think the real question is do they enter countries with some sort of drop down menu and are historical names on that list? If not, it is putting a lot of faith into an IO to know which current country someone meant. If someone lists some random city in Czechoslovakia, how is an IO to know whether that is Slovakia or the Czech Republic now? I suppose they could google, but I wouldn't trust it.

Who is they? The forms don't have drop down menus. If the government database interfaces do, they'll have a cheat sheet to deal with these issues. Actually I suspect the drop down menu is the reason my wife's green card was printed indicting Taiwan (Republic of China) instead of People's Republic of China as the names would have been consecutive on a drop down list, as in China, PRC and China, ROC.

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

While filling documents for K-1 and Green Card I put everywhere "USSR" as a place of birth, because it is country I was born in. Now part of USSR I was born in is Russian Federation, but for me it doesn't matter, because I was born before USSR collapsed, and for me it's more logical to put name of the country at the moment of event we're talking about (birth) on documents, not present name. USCIS didn't cause any troubles, and actually my Green Card says "USSR" in the "Country of birth". But I've heard that many USSR-born immigrants put "Russia" and other current names of the countries in forms, and their Green Cards say "Russia" and etc. Seems like USCIS doesn't really care as long as you put official name of the country and they can figure where it was.

- Victor

[pushbrk 12,108]

While filling documents for K-1 and Green Card I put everywhere "USSR" as a place of birth, because it is country I was born in. Now part of USSR I was born in is Russian Federation, but for me it doesn't matter, because I was born before USSR collapsed, and for me it's more logical to put name of the country at the moment of event we're talking about (birth) on documents, not present name. USCIS didn't cause any troubles, and actually my Green Card says "USSR" in the "Country of birth". But I've heard that many USSR-born immigrants put "Russia" and other current names of the countries in forms, and their Green Cards say "Russia" and etc. Seems like USCIS doesn't really care as long as you put official name of the country and they can figure where it was.

- Victor

All good points. I'm familiar with a current case where the immigrating spouse was born in the USSR but her immigrating children, born in the same city were born in Russia. (The Russian Federation) It is what it is.

[LanaMay 5]

I was born in USSR too,but I never put it as a place of birth,the idea just never occurred to me,since I was a kid when the change happened.To me it is like if person born before 1917 put Russian Empire as a place of birth))) In my opinion,logical step is to use current name of the country.

[pushbrk 12,108]

I was born in USSR too,but I never put it as a place of birth,the idea just never occurred to me,since I was a kid when the change happened.To me it is like if person born before 1917 put Russian Empire as a place of birth))) In my opinion,logical step is to use current name of the country.

That's not going to sound very logical if the birth certificate indicates a different country than you indicated you were born. Funny thing about logic is that it only works well when thought through completely, including eliminating logical fallacies and considering unintended consequences. In this case though, there really are no notable consequences to the kind of choices being discussed, as long as you use either the correct past name or correct current name of the country. City names change too. St. Petersburg comes to mind.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

If Superman, who was born on planet Krypton -- a planet that blew up shortly after he escaped -- is being asked where he was born, should he truthful state Krypton or make a false statement such as Kansas or Kuala Lumpur?