The Military Is About To Get More FABULOUS!!!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah, one thing about the military, the STRAIGHT guys never talk about girls or sex...ever. Well, not until they started letting the HOMOs in, then I guess, why not, I mean THEY talk about it. Before Bill Clinton was elected, you know, when there were NO homosexuals in the military, the men NEVER talked about sex, who they slept with, etc. Ever. Such things should never be discussed at "work" and they never did. And they never talked about VD (condoms were for rifle muzzles to keep mud out) and it is completely not true that Navy guys had a PCOD. In fact the is no such thing as an "Amerasian" baby because the men "working" in VietNam and Korea never had sex with women...they were working. Thta was just lying oriental chicks trying to get a green card.

Get a grip, will you. And stop pretending that you were ever OK with "Don't ask, Don't tell"

You hate gays, you hate that they share the planet with you and you want their rights taken away and their jobs if you can...so just fess up and say so. The only thing worse than a party-line hack is one that tries to be PC about it.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Yeah, one thing about the military, the STRAIGHT guys never talk about girls or sex...ever. Well, not until they started letting the HOMOs in, then I guess, why not, I mean THEY talk about it. Before Bill Clinton was elected, you know, when there were NO homosexuals in the military, the men NEVER talked about sex, who they slept with, etc. Ever. Such things should never be discussed at "work" and they never did. And they never talked about VD (condoms were for rifle muzzles to keep mud out) and it is completely not true that Navy guys had a PCOD. In fact the is no such thing as an "Amerasian" baby because the men "working" in VietNam and Korea never had sex with women...they were working. Thta was just lying oriental chicks trying to get a green card.

Get a grip, will you. And stop pretending that you were ever OK with "Don't ask, Don't tell"

You hate gays, you hate that they share the planet with you and you want their rights taken away and their jobs if you can...so just fess up and say so. The only thing worse than a party-line hack is one that tries to be PC about it.

I know you're surely not talking to me.

Because pretending to know a damn thing about me is a sad mistake.

I've not once bashed anyone for being gay. I've not once said anything against someone of a different orientation once in this thread.

This isn't about "my stance" on gays as I have not once perpetuated that in my posts. You haven't a damn clue what my stance is on the subject, so don't pretend you do.

If you have some sort of rebuttal, make it about what I'm actually saying and take me up on that. Don't try and pretend to know me though. That's ridiculous.

So I would suggest you actually read what I'm saying about how SOME PEOPLE do feel about the situation and how that doesn't fit in to every day life for a lot of them.

We're not talking about someone's life style choice. We're talking about the damn military and the job they have to do and how important it is that distractions of any sort not get in the way of duty. While there are plenty who are accepting of people's lifestyles, there are plenty in the same boat who aren't. That is reality. That's not illusion, that's not a myth, that is the honest truth. The only thing going in the favor of this repeal today is the fact that things are a lot less communal than they once were once you get outside of BCT.

This issue has nothing to do with "gay rights."

The hypocrisy and the bullshit of the whole thing speaking of "party hacks" is that most on the far-left have no intention of EVER joining the military. Most gays who are fighting for this have no intention of EVER joining the military. It's just one more 'barrier' that is seen in the that needs to be torn down, that has absolutely nothing to do with lifestyle. -

This isn't about partnerships, marriage, unions, or whatever. This isn't about wanting to hold hand and kiss in public and not be shocked at people's reactions. Stop pretending like it is. This is just one more thing to say, "we will not shut up." and has nothing to do with real/actual rights.

What the hell does it matter for someone to be gay and serve in the military? It doesn't matter a damn thing. - What does it mean to be 'openly' gay and serve in the military? It matters a lot when you are found out about by your redneck/homophobic service members who will taunt you, tease you, and possibly do things worse to you.

We are not at a point in this country, in this society, that people have become fulling accepting to the overwhelming vast majority. The prop 8 vote in California should prove that. The numerous other states where the people vote on this should prove that.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

and now you're just trolling.... Good work.

Not trolling, responding your calling my comments foolish. If you aren't homophobic, you are inarticulate, because that is the only logical conclusion to your posts. I don't know you, so if I am laboring under a false illusion it is because of your comments, not trying to be difficult.

There are gays in the military. They are dedicated, hard working, and live constantly with the fear of being found out and losing their careers. A uniform code of ethical conduct covering sexual activity can be neutral in terms of homosexuality and heterosexuality. Moving beyond "Don't ask/Don't tell" will inevitably lead to that outcome.

The current system protects homophobes. It fails to protect homosexuals who wish to serve our country.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Not trolling, responding your calling my comments foolish. If you aren't homophobic, you are inarticulate, because that is the only logical conclusion to your posts. I don't know you, so if I am laboring under a false illusion it is because of your comments, not trying to be difficult.

There are gays in the military. They are dedicated, hard working, and live constantly with the fear of being found out and losing their careers. A uniform code of ethical conduct covering sexual activity can be neutral in terms of homosexuality and heterosexuality. Moving beyond "Don't ask/Don't tell" will inevitably lead to that outcome.

The current system protects homophobes. It fails to protect homosexuals who wish to serve our country.

DADT actually protects homosexuals by preventing investigation into their sexual orientation. Now that's not to say it doesn't still go on (and does)... but that's part of the law. - Those who investigate/look into someone for being gay under DADT were supposed to have equal consequences.

For the record, my approach has nothing to do with gays, it's just what presented itself an argument by others and i took it on accordingly.

My OP states clearly how I feel and as you mentioned the "neutral" for everyone:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/258369-the-military-is-about-to-get-more-fabulous/page__view__findpost__p__3965618

"""Your sexual preference should NEVER come up on the job. Who you're dating should never come up. Who you're screwing should never come up.

You are here to fight for this country and do your JOB.

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" should be a blanket policy for everyone in the military.""""

Edited May 29, 2010 by Paul and Vanessa

[sjr09 155]

I don't get why people should have to keep their relationships private. My best friend lived on base with his wife and kids, so their relationship was obviously not private.

I'm glad they're repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

?

[Welshcookie 17]

The military is not only backward regarding this issue....My husband didn't acknowledge me in his working life for 3 years, just because his "wife' at the time continuously threatened to tell his commanding officer about our relationship, "adultery" is also no go and can damage a career...yeh, we were blackmailed for many $'s. There was no 'adultery' as we got together after their separation but the military does not recognise anything other than divorce period.

[Danno 1,228]

It's sad that so many people have so little knowledge of what the role of the military is.

The Military excludes people for all kinds of reasons things like tattoos with nudity or depicting a pot leaf.

For being over weight, for being too short, for poor eye vision and a host of other conditions.

The main question has always been will this change make the service perform better? Will it have negative effects?

SOmetimes Changes can bring about both good and bad but ...the god outweigh the bad such as when Blacks were integrated with the rest of the service, though there were conflicts they were out weighed by logistics and other improvements.

THe question is, how do kissing Marines, improve the Corps?

Sure Homos have always served in the military and one would suppose that some have even performed exceptional in their duties.... but the same can be said of Child molesters or drug addicts as they too have served. MAny of these taking-points are meaningless to the question; Do homosexuals or any other person in a fringe lifestyle have a "Right to serve"?

The clueless relate the military as a 9-5 job where you can keep your private life at home..... for many troops their home life is the military as you eat, bunk, work, recreation with the same guys in your unit.

This change will bring about a title wave of questions, every thing from barracks to bring a date to the Ball, to Gay-clubs on base to cross dressing and transgender rights?

Will Gays be tested for AIDS more often..... as they still are hundreds of times more likely to be infected?

..... in a profession where blood is both spilled often..... and sometimes required for transfusions this is not something a civilian bean counter would even consider.

Also, Can Gays marry if in a state which allows, will they get base housing and pay?

These situations / questions are endless.... yet amusing.

But really the one question I would like to have input on is.... "what improvements will this bring to the armed forces"?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

The main question has always been will this change make the service perform better? Will it have negative effects?

Sometimes Changes can bring about both good and bad but ...the good outweigh the bad such as when Blacks were integrated with the rest of the service, though there were conflicts they were out weighed by logistics and other improvements.

THe question is, how do kissing Marines, improve the Corps?

The clueless relate the military as a 9-5 job where you can keep your private life at home..... for many troops their home life is the military as you eat, bunk, work, recreation with the same guys in your unit.

This change will bring about a title wave of questions, every thing from barracks to bring a date to the Ball, to Gay-clubs on base to cross dressing and transgender rights?

Will Gays be tested for AIDS more often..... as they still are hundreds of times more likely to be infected?

..... in a profession where blood is both spilled often..... and sometimes required for transfusions this is not something a civilian bean counter would even consider.

But really the one question I would like to have input on is.... "what improvements will this bring to the armed forces"?

That's exactly the question. Unless you have served you have NO IDEA the impact this will actually have on serving officers. As stated you live with these people every day. They are your family. You trust them with your life. They're not just "co-workers" they are the most important people in your life for several years. There must be 1000% trust and respect.

If people start coming out there will HAVE to be separate sleeping quarters and showers. Security will HAVE to be increased because I can guarantee you that there will be a lot of assaults on openly homosexual men.

I asked my Marine what he thought about all this. He said if they weren't killed, they'd be beaten to an inch on their life. That he has no issue with homosexual men but he DOES take issue with being forced to shower and sleep with someone who may or may not find him sexually attractive.

Now there's where I stopped him. I told him that not EVERY gay guy checks out every guy, just like not every woman checks out every man and vice-versa. BUT he said, the difference is, a gay guy is like a girl (to straight guys obviously), in that the association of an "opposite sex" is there. If women don't sleep or shower with men because of sexual tension or other reasons then neither should a gay guy or gay girl shower with "straights". No guy wants to be all "blokey" with a gay guy, they won't be able to relax, it won't be the same. This is in fact going to INCREASE segregation. It will increase bad blood if the segregation doesn't occur.

I mentioned to my Marine someone's argument that there's likely gays in the Marines already and he said "more than likely" but there's a difference between KNOWING a guy is checking you out in the shower, and not knowing. That he would prefer to pretend that all the guys in his shower are straight and there's nothing suss about it so it doesn't make them uncomfortable or uneasy (just like it would if a girl was in the shower with them).

It's going to get VERY bad before it gets good. I agree with "Paul and Vanessa", sexuality shouldn't be an issue but you get a bunch of testosterone charged men alone in a deserted place, missing home, missing their women and sex comes up. It's human nature and it would be stupid to stop people from expressing themselves in that manner simply to keep the peace.

So that leads to, why can't a gay guy express he misses his man? Why can't he talk about that sort of stuff and feel safe and supported? He should be able to be himself without fear of backlash but at the same time, if I was a gay guy in the Marines I wouldn't admit it. No way in hell would I admit it. My life and safety is more valuable than my need to express my sexuality... and if I joined an occupation where I knew that my "silence" would be necessary then I'd be prepared to deal with it. It's stupid to think that the homosexuals in the Armed Forces aren't aware of WHY they need to keep quiet. The WORLD needs to change a lot more before it can be pushed through to such a straight and testosterone charged environment. The Armed Forces is not a place to start the revolution.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I don't have the time to read all the posts beyond the first 4 pages, but I hope this means the military will allow gay couples to cohabitate on bases just as heterosexual couples do, as well as be eligible for any family benefits.

Edited May 29, 2010 by El Buscador

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

That's the exact pont though, is there ARE people who are quite uncomfortable, there are people who even have a hatred for that lifestyle. Especially when you look at the fact that a lot of service members are quite religious as well, you know there's issues of comfort there.

This is the military. Keeping things stable, soldiers as comfortable as possible, keeping morale as high as possible, etc. are very important to their lives and the security of the areas in which they are serving.

So get over being uncomfortable.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Actually I don't and would have given anything to be able to so honestly, but was not possible. Hell, I'd give anything to do it today.

It's in my blood, be it family, two of my best friends who I was supposed to join with, etc.

So what stopped you?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

if you read other posts above, I explain this.

If someone is openly gay and you have communcal showers, there's going to be people uncomfortable. If there's someone sleeping in the same room as you, some will be uncomfortable.

It's the same exact reason why men and women don't share bunks together/share the same facilities.

There are still a lot of people out there who are very uncomfortable around those of that sexuality.

You have to look at how much time many spend their time with each other. It's 24/7 it a lot of cases.

This isn't just going to work and coming home for the evening like your regular 9-5 where people don't know much about you.

So what?

** 'em.

[Danno 1,228]

I don't have the time to read all the posts beyond the first 4 pages, but I hope this means the military will allow gay couples to cohabitate on bases just as heterosexual couples do, as well as be eligible for any family benefits.

Two men playing husband and wife is hardly a "family".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Two men playing husband and wife is hardly a "family".

And one ignorant heterosexual man laughing at and belittling the relationships of homosexual people totally isn't a bigot.

Oh no. Not at all.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

It's sad that so many people have so little knowledge of what the role of the military is.

Amen to Danno Logic!