Relationship Problems due to Language

[texascamelqueen 1]

I have searched the forums for this topic and haven't found anything related to it, and I didn't know where else to figure out the answers to this question, so here is my issue. My fiance and I have been apart since August 1st, 2008. We met for the first time last year in July 2007, when I was traveling in Morocco, and after that kept in touch via online chat. Every weekend, we would talk for hours at a time about everything. Our relationship turned into a strong friendship with mutual affection, but nothing that you would call romantic. I made the decision to go visit him in January of 2008, and bought a ticket. I spent the whole month of July with him. It was amazing and wonderful. I felt we could talk about anything. By the end of the month, we were engaged.

Now, I have filed the I-129 and have received NOA1. We're hoping that we get NOA2 sometime in March. Anyway, it is now almost 5 months into our time apart, and there are some things that I am beginning to think about that I never thought about before, so here it is:

I've always thought my fiance's English was pretty good, but lately, I've noticed that I have to simplify the way I explain things to him. I never thought about this before. I was looking for topics on this online, and found this (http://larabell.org/cross.html) :

Rule #6: Make sure that between the two of you, there is at least one language in which you are both fluent.

This is very important. As a test, try taking some very subtle feeling or belief and explain it to your potential mate. Have him or her explain it back. If there is not a substantial understanding of what you explained, watch out. If either of you are unable to explain the subtle emotions that come up in a relationship without causing some misunderstanding, then you will be in for a very hard, if not impossible, road through life. Wait a while until one or the other of you is able to achieve a good degree of fluency in the other's language.

After all, would you hook up permanently with someone whose face you had never seen? Not many of us would. Then how come we will so readily hook up with a partner whose soul we have never seen?

..........This really hit home with me. I mean, I feel like my fiance and I know each other pretty well, but English is the language we use to communicate, and sometimes I feel like I can't always communicate the subtle things without simplifying my word choice for him. I am afraid I will get tired of this. I have asked him about if he's been reading or studying to improve his English, but lately he hasn't done much. We seemed to communicate just fine when I was there with him for a month, but right now I am having doubts.

Currently, he is not around anyone with whom he can speak and practice English, so when we talk once or twice a week, that is the only time he uses English. He has told me that he thinks once he is in an environment where he has to speak the language, he will be fine. I don't doubt this, as he can speak French amazingly better than English (he often translates using a French dictionary), and he also speaks classical Arabic, his native language of Moroccan Arabic, and intermediate level Berber. So, he is very good at picking up languages. However, I have been getting frustrated lately at having to simplify my words. I don't mind having to explain sometimes; I am a middle school English teacher, and can easily do it. But sometimes, I just want to talk about something--subtle feelings, complicated issues, jokes even--without having to explain it or simplify it or be a teacher to him. Ironically, he is also a teacher, but for primary school, including the subjects of French and Arabic. So, we're both the type that are typically patient when it comes to someone learning something new. But like I said, I've been getting frustrated and doubtful lately, and I hate it, and I'm afraid that this language thing is going to become a big issue.

I haven't said anything to him about this yet because I need to sort out my feelings concerning this issue first.

And I know some of you are probably thinking, why don't I learn his language? Well, Moroccan Arabic is not a language you can learn in books so easily; you really have to learn it from a person. He is going to begin teaching me once he is here and we are married, and I look forward to it, but for now we must communicate in English.

So, I am wondering if there are couples on here who have had similar issues relating to language. Everyone on here seems so hopeful and positive about everything, but at some point you have to be realistic about the unique problems encountered in a cross cultural relationship. Language is one of them.

What kinds of obstacles have others of you encountered with this issue, and how did you overcome them? Or did it cause too many problems to be worth it? Please help me out with any advice, stories, etc., as this is the only place I could think of that people might understand this unique issue.

Thank you!

[Ban Hammer 12,855]

he's got a point in that being around it and hearing it/conversing in it will help sharpen his language skills. just a thought - any chance he can watch tv in english? that will help him pick up slang and overall improve his language proficiency.

as for the common language, his ability to speak it will need to be good enough to convince the interviewing officer that you two really do have a common language to communicate in.

[texascamelqueen 1]

he's got a point in that being around it and hearing it/conversing in it will help sharpen his language skills. just a thought - any chance he can watch tv in english? that will help him pick up slang and overall improve his language proficiency.

as for the common language, his ability to speak it will need to be good enough to convince the interviewing officer that you two really do have a common language to communicate in.

Oh, I have no doubt that he can manage an interview just fine. It's the subtleties and slang that cause frustration for me.

[Old Dominion 26]

If it's annoying you already, then what do you propose to do about your reaction to this new reality in your life? As far as I can tell, it is your reaction (annoyance, impatience, whatever) that is the problem here.

[Ban Hammer 12,855]

he's got a point in that being around it and hearing it/conversing in it will help sharpen his language skills. just a thought - any chance he can watch tv in english? that will help him pick up slang and overall improve his language proficiency.

as for the common language, his ability to speak it will need to be good enough to convince the interviewing officer that you two really do have a common language to communicate in.

Oh, I have no doubt that he can manage an interview just fine. It's the subtleties and slang that cause frustration for me.

he'll pick that up over time. just remember patience is a virtue.

[Jasman0717 8]

I am still struggling with Claudeth. Filipinos just don't seem to ever answer a yes or no question directly. She says, yes, maybe, but not so much. Ugh

[pushbrk 12,141]

he's got a point in that being around it and hearing it/conversing in it will help sharpen his language skills. just a thought - any chance he can watch tv in english? that will help him pick up slang and overall improve his language proficiency.

as for the common language, his ability to speak it will need to be good enough to convince the interviewing officer that you two really do have a common language to communicate in.

Oh, I have no doubt that he can manage an interview just fine. It's the subtleties and slang that cause frustration for me.

he'll pick that up over time. just remember patience is a virtue.

This kind of relationship takes a heavy commitment and huge dose of patience. Sounds like your husband's English is far superior to my wife's and she's been in the US 27 months. Even now, if all we have is a telephone and verbal communication, ten minutes is a long conversation, since at most, verbal is no more than 20% of communication. It's up to the two of you to work out your communication but you certainly can do so well enough to pass any communication standard that would be used in a visa interview.

[TBoneTX 43,184]

Currently, he is not around anyone with whom he can speak and practice English

This is the crux of the matter, I believe. My now-wife, who studied English in Ecuador & the U.S., states often that she forgot much of her grammar and some of her vocabulary precisely because there was no one around with whom she could speak or practice English. If your husband is proficient in French & Arabic, he should indeed be fine once he is around English-speakers regularly.

Regarding simplification when speaking with him, there's little wrong with that; refer to all the research at how many U.S. natives themselves read or comprehend at a [pick your primary-school grade] level. I use simplified terms with my wife, and if I come out with something that she doesn't understand (or if she reads or hears a strange word), I'll explain it. She can take this in small doses, and she may not remember or be able to replicate everything perfectly after just the first time.

I honestly don't fathom how ANYONE learns English as a second language. The rules of grammar and pronunciation become irregular just when we might think that there's some logic to them; slang and colloquialism reign supreme, and English is idiomatic, perhaps more so than any other language; and Americans (in particular) tend to be sloppy in grammar and elocution even beyond slang or dialect. Furthermore, English is "only" a semi-inflected language (meaning that English relies on word ORDER as much as, or more than, on word ENDINGS, as an inflected language does), and if the alphabet is also strange to the learner, good luck and good grief... especially if one cannot regularly practice one's skills! It is also exhausting to try to THINK in a strange language, or to listen, mentally translate into one's own language, and orally translate back, fretting all the while about our grammar and elocution.

I once asked a Chinese buddy how difficult it was for the Chinese to learn English. He said, "Basic English is very easy. However, what we call 'elegant English' is something that very few of us ever achieve." To a greater or lesser extent, this applies to every foreign English-learner. Perhaps this is all food for thought (an idiom).

Meanwhile, I shall reflect on why I go to THE hospital, go TO work, but go HOME... and how a foreign speaker would decipher and APPLY this grammatical "logic," si man.

Edited December 24, 2008 by TBoneTX

[anya-D 8]

Currently, he is not around anyone with whom he can speak and practice English

This is the crux of the matter, I believe. My now-wife, who studied English in Ecuador & the U.S., states often that she forgot much of her grammar and some of her vocabulary precisely because there was no one around with whom she could speak or practice English. If your husband is proficient in French & Arabic, he should indeed be fine once he is around English-speakers regularly.

Regarding simplification when speaking with him, there's little wrong with that; refer to all the research at how many U.S. natives themselves read or comprehend at a [pick your primary-school grade] level. I use simplified terms with my wife, and if I come out with something that she doesn't understand (or if she reads or hears a strange word), I'll explain it. She can take this in small doses, and she may not remember or be able to replicate everything perfectly after just the first time.

I honestly don't fathom how ANYONE learns English as a second language. The rules of grammar and pronunciation become irregular just when we might think that there's some logic to them; slang and colloquialism reign supreme, and English is idiomatic, perhaps more so than any other language; and Americans (in particular) tend to be sloppy in grammar and elocution even beyond slang or dialect. Furthermore, English is "only" a semi-inflected language (meaning that English relies on word ORDER as much as, or more than, on word ENDINGS, as an inflected language does), and if the alphabet is also strange to the learner, good luck and good grief... especially if one cannot regularly practice one's skills! It is also exhausting to try to THINK in a strange language, or to listen, mentally translate into one's own language, and orally translate back, fretting all the while about our grammar and elocution.

I once asked a Chinese buddy how difficult it was for the Chinese to learn English. He said, "Basic English is very easy. However, what we call 'elegant English' is something that very few of us ever achieve." To a greater or lesser extent, this applies to every foreign English-learner. Perhaps this is all food for thought (an idiom).

Meanwhile, I shall reflect on why I go to THE hospital, go TO work, but go HOME... and how a foreign speaker would decipher and APPLY this grammatical "logic," si man.

To the OP

I understand your frustration with him not understanding jokes, slang and such... becasue my husband sometimes feels the same. But he know (but sometimes forgot) that I dont have the same background.. my whole life experiences are not like his. Culture and custom also play a very big part in jokes and slangs.

My husband also told me that it's sad not being able to talk about his childhood that I can relate to.. I too think that.. so when he talked about his childhood and game and such, he would have to explain them to me becasue I've never experiences them... musics, movies, movie stars, cars... everthing... eventhough I lived in the sate before I met him, still there's a large gap between our experiences.

So basicly, if you think it's annoying now, I dont know how bad it's going to be when y ou live together. I've been here for 4 years now and I still learn new words, sentences, jokes and stuff every day.

I wish you good luck!

-Anya

[mich08 0]

I understand what you're saying here....language is huge in communication...but what a couple of others have said makes a lot of sense....if he's open to suggestion, tv is a good idea, or how 'bout english music? though english is taught in highschool and college in argentina, the only way my fiance picked up slang and idioms was through Guns 'n' Roses, Bon Jovi, and other music in english....due to his hugely inquisitive mind, he found all the lyrics on line, read them while listening to them, memorized phrases (as we all do when we love certain music) and when he arrived in the States for the first time, he grilled EVERY person he worked with (including me) as to the meaning of every phrase he didn't understand....of course your fiance isn't going to pick up the language and meanings only through talking to you a few times a week....and i don't blame him for not picking up english books and studying....I have a basic grasp of spanish but when my fiance asks if i've beend studying, i honestly say no....there's a lot to do in this life and reading a book in a foreign language in my own time is really hard to motivate myself to do (not doing it for a grade in a class!)...plus i know it won't help much with fluency if I'm not using the spanish... and since my fiance wants to keep his english fluent, he won't speak to me in spanish so i have no way to become more fluent surrounded by english speakers.....your fiance is probably in the same situation..you're his only practice!.....my fiance keeps up his english very well by seding emails and talking to me over the internet and continuing to listen to music and watch comedians with subtitles and always asking me his newest questions...but he knows and i know that the next step in his progress will be by 'immersion'....til then we have to be patient with our shortcomings, focus on what we love and know about one another.....and remember 'real' life isn't about TALKING every time you're together....I thought the comment of language being 20% of the communication was HUGELY true....I was with my fiance for the last three months and coming back and trying to 'spend time' together online or on the phone every day is sometimes like pulling teeth because all you CAN do is talk...and we don't always have tons of things to say!....when you're actually together, much of the communication come from the common activity taking place at the time....my fiance could be working on his computer and i could sit at the desk in the same room for hours, both of us in silence, but knowing we were in the same room communicated the fact that we wanted to be together.....you take a walk down the street holding hands and comment on things you see or things you'd like to do based on your common location...not every conversation we'll have with our SO's will require a deep knowledge of the intricacies of our language....but i know it's difficult to imagine that when currently we lack all these opportunities to communicate...the only thing common about our lives right now is a computer screen in front of us....remember the times you spent together, don't get too hung up on the language right now...if he's as bright as you say he is, he'll pick up english when he gets here and you two will also have your own special language of love that you'll share and aquire as you spend time and your lives together.....hang in there!

[jundp 191]

My husband speaks English and German fluently but there are still times when we have problems with language over a simple word or subtle feeling. I really think maybe you are feeling it because you are separated. When you are together, you say you don't have these problems. There will be other difficulties too, such as cultural differences, and they'll need to be dealt with using patience. Remember that he's leaving EVERYTHING behind to come be with you, no easy task.

Have some patience, but if you think you can't live with it, it would be kinder to end things now rather than waiting until he gets here. He'll have so many more changes to deal with, as will you, once the "real life" begins.

Good luck.

[texascamelqueen 1]

I understand what you're saying here....language is huge in communication...but what a couple of others have said makes a lot of sense....if he's open to suggestion, tv is a good idea, or how 'bout english music? though english is taught in highschool and college in argentina, the only way my fiance picked up slang and idioms was through Guns 'n' Roses, Bon Jovi, and other music in english....due to his hugely inquisitive mind, he found all the lyrics on line, read them while listening to them, memorized phrases (as we all do when we love certain music) and when he arrived in the States for the first time, he grilled EVERY person he worked with (including me) as to the meaning of every phrase he didn't understand....of course your fiance isn't going to pick up the language and meanings only through talking to you a few times a week....and i don't blame him for not picking up english books and studying....I have a basic grasp of spanish but when my fiance asks if i've beend studying, i honestly say no....there's a lot to do in this life and reading a book in a foreign language in my own time is really hard to motivate myself to do (not doing it for a grade in a class!)...plus i know it won't help much with fluency if I'm not using the spanish... and since my fiance wants to keep his english fluent, he won't speak to me in spanish so i have no way to become more fluent surrounded by english speakers.....your fiance is probably in the same situation..you're his only practice!.....my fiance keeps up his english very well by seding emails and talking to me over the internet and continuing to listen to music and watch comedians with subtitles and always asking me his newest questions...but he knows and i know that the next step in his progress will be by 'immersion'....til then we have to be patient with our shortcomings, focus on what we love and know about one another.....and remember 'real' life isn't about TALKING every time you're together....I thought the comment of language being 20% of the communication was HUGELY true....I was with my fiance for the last three months and coming back and trying to 'spend time' together online or on the phone every day is sometimes like pulling teeth because all you CAN do is talk...and we don't always have tons of things to say!....when you're actually together, much of the communication come from the common activity taking place at the time....my fiance could be working on his computer and i could sit at the desk in the same room for hours, both of us in silence, but knowing we were in the same room communicated the fact that we wanted to be together.....you take a walk down the street holding hands and comment on things you see or things you'd like to do based on your common location...not every conversation we'll have with our SO's will require a deep knowledge of the intricacies of our language....but i know it's difficult to imagine that when currently we lack all these opportunities to communicate...the only thing common about our lives right now is a computer screen in front of us....remember the times you spent together, don't get too hung up on the language right now...if he's as bright as you say he is, he'll pick up english when he gets here and you two will also have your own special language of love that you'll share and aquire as you spend time and your lives together.....hang in there!

WOW! You all have very valid points and great ideas. The point about not always talking when you are actually together is SO true...there aren't always things to talk about. Also, I'll talk to him about watching movies with English subtitles--movies are much less overwhelming than a book for English-language learners. He is busy with life just like me. Thanks for that suggestion. The thought that I may feel it more now because we're separated--yes, you're right. It's different when we're together. And the complexities and colloquialism of the English language--goodness gracious--thanks for that reminder.

Anyway, so many points to ponder. I feel much better now and appreciate all your thoughts. I have been really stressed lately, and I think that with it being the holidays and all, with the spare time, it gets lonely without him, and I tend to start over-thinking things and worrying about little things over which I have no control. Yes, patience is a virtue, and my fiance has plenty to spare, as do I on a regular basis (I teach middle school, for goodness sake!). But we're human and sometimes need others to help put things into perspective.

Of one thing I am sure, though, Old Dominion, when it comes to language: It's not necessarily what you say, but how you say it. The people on VJ are supposed to help each other out, not put each other down.

Everyone, THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE FOR ME!

[Svetlana 0]

If you love him you have to be patient.

But, here is my story of my US husband.

He was in huge love and I didn't speak 1 word of English when he married me.

After 5-6 years he found out that I am more smarder and I found out it's nothing to talk with him.

We are divorce, still friends.

Now I am married Russoan(same as I am), he doesn't speak English at all, but we are soooo happy.

We can talk our language.

[jundp 191]

Oooh, the movies with English subtitles is a great idea. My husband still prefers to watch movies with subtitles, even though he's fluent. Also, as silly as it may sound, kids shows are great too.

[Badgerella 5]

I honestly don't fathom how ANYONE learns English as a second language. The rules of grammar and pronunciation become irregular just when we might think that there's some logic to them; slang and colloquialism reign supreme, and English is idiomatic, perhaps more so than any other language; and Americans (in particular) tend to be sloppy in grammar and elocution even beyond slang or dialect. Furthermore, English is "only" a semi-inflected language (meaning that English relies on word ORDER as much as, or more than, on word ENDINGS, as an inflected language does), and if the alphabet is also strange to the learner, good luck and good grief... especially if one cannot regularly practice one's skills! It is also exhausting to try to THINK in a strange language, or to listen, mentally translate into one's own language, and orally translate back, fretting all the while about our grammar and elocution.

I once asked a Chinese buddy how difficult it was for the Chinese to learn English. He said, "Basic English is very easy. However, what we call 'elegant English' is something that very few of us ever achieve." To a greater or lesser extent, this applies to every foreign English-learner. Perhaps this is all food for thought (an idiom).

Meanwhile, I shall reflect on why I go to THE hospital, go TO work, but go HOME... and how a foreign speaker would decipher and APPLY this grammatical "logic," si man.

English is a second language to me. Or, well, I have been in touch with it (school and otherwise) almost as long as I have been speaking Croatian, but it's still not my native language, nor it is spoken on a regular basis here in Croatia. As a person who speaks numerous other languages, I have to say that I have never encountered anything as easy to learn as English. Nothing has gotten even remotely close. Grammar, spelling, pronounciation or any other rules are at least 5 times easier and, above all, the language follows more than enough patterns. Irregularities in English are nothing compared to many other languages.

As for the OP's problem, I'd suggest a lot more patience. I can't imagine being married to someone I can't talk to, or who doesn't understand me, but as far as I can tell, that's not the case between you and the man. Everything comes with practice, so will his second language. Perhaps you should try talking to him in person more often than once or twice a week. If actual phones are too expensive, try using Skype. It'd probably help him a great deal.