USCIS K1 termination notice, questions for refile.

[Dataunavailable 82]

11 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

To me, it sounds like the connection to her family may have been an issue.  For some consulates, this is a red flag.

 

I have never heard of letters of intent even entering into a denial at the interview - unless they specifically wanted updated ones?

And I've wracked my brain around that numerous times. My only conclusive thought is, her sister has been married here in the U.S for 11 years, she could have petitioned for her at anytime during those 11 years and she would most likely have been here 5+ years ago if all she wanted was a way to the U.S. 

 

I guess in the grand scheme of things, why would having family somewhere cause a flag? Is it because they think the families of other intending immigrants just try to get them all here? 

 

I've learned so much about this whole process from this site, other sites and just personal education, that all I know, is I don't know enough. 

[payxibka 10,044]

5 minutes ago, Dataunavailable said:

And I've wracked my brain around that numerous times. My only conclusive thought is, her sister has been married here in the U.S for 11 years, she could have petitioned for her at anytime during those 11 years and she would most likely have been here 5+ years ago if all she wanted was a way to the U.S. 

 

Not even close,  a sibling petition is 12 to 13 years minimum wait time  which assumes the sister is a USC 

[SalishSea 16,774]

1 hour ago, Dataunavailable said:

I guess in the grand scheme of things, why would having family somewhere cause a flag? Is it because they think the families of other intending immigrants just try to get them all here? 

No, it is because unlike other family visas, there is no wait for a marriage-based visa.  There have been many cases in which introductions were done via a family member already in the US, leading to fraudulent marriages.  

[Nitas_man 3,100]

5 hours ago, Dataunavailable said:

That's entirely possible. The intent to marry letters, I thought, were good, they explained our intentions without sounding over dramatic. 

 

I don't know if I would consider it getting tripped up, but two questions and answers stick out to me in her interview.

 

One was why I only came one time. She said she had to think how to answer in English for a second and said, "He came to see me and for our engagement ceremony and to bring me to the U.S."

 

The other was the question about how we met. We met through her aunt, who I have worked with for years at a Casino. Which she stated when asked. 

At the end he asked something similar,  but he was implying that her sister introduced us, her thought was his question is "Did you talk to your sister about your fiance after you met" she says yes, she than realized he was asking if her sister introduced us and said no and told them she misunderstood and what she really meant. 

 

Those are the bumps, which most likely coincide with the decision that there isn't adequate intent to marry being shown. She knows everything about me, even little nuance things that most people in my day to day life don't. Things I do or things I avoid. 

 

So it is getting a plan of the paperwork to show them the decision the first time was wrong, we are still together strong and are not giving up because we had a denial. 

 

Hind sight is 20-20, but even if I knew me being there would help, it's extremely tough to take the extra time off work when I don't have the extra vacation time,  they have already been super helpful with giving me some days as unpaid to go there in May this year after I was talking to them about the current situation. And I'm eternally grateful to have a job and boss that is understanding,  but they can't just bend rules for me or they have to for everyone. 

 

I appreciate your input. Thank you

 

I don’t think you’ll get a K1.  Might need to plan to get married then file again.

 

[carmel34 3,531]

The officer most likely was concerned that your fiancee was using you to join her sister in the US, in order to avoid the long wait for a sibling based immigrant visa.  I would suggest getting married in a third country, spend more time together, more visits to show that the relationship is genuine, and then file an I-130 petition for a spousal visa.  Good luck!

[JeanneAdil 6,202]

very good advice here to marry in another country

 

you need to read the embassy posts for Cambodia

best advice is probably there from those who have gone thru this process

if they do not respond here,  write to a few of the active ones

check out their timelines 

good luck to you 

[Dataunavailable 82]

4 hours ago, carmel34 said:

The officer most likely was concerned that your fiancee was using you to join her sister in the US, in order to avoid the long wait for a sibling based immigrant visa.  I would suggest getting married in a third country, spend more time together, more visits to show that the relationship is genuine, and then file an I-130 petition for a spousal visa.  Good luck!

My only question/concern would be, marrying would take away the argument that a couple wouldn't marry. But if someone was in a fraudulent relationship,  how would that change anything that would really happen anyway? 

 

If someone was coming just for status, why wouldn't everyone just get married and forget about doing a K1, since it takes just a bit more time and in the end, a bit cheaper? But also a higher chance of approval. 

 

I've also been getting things in order in the event that I do just end up moving to Cambodia. Even marrying, a consular can still deny a Visa.  And the stress I feel now, I can't imagine after getting married and still told no. 

[Nitas_man 3,100]

3 minutes ago, Dataunavailable said:

My only question/concern would be, marrying would take away the argument that a couple wouldn't marry. But if someone was in a fraudulent relationship,  how would that change anything that would really happen anyway? 

 

If someone was coming just for status, why wouldn't everyone just get married and forget about doing a K1, since it takes just a bit more time and in the end, a bit cheaper? But also a higher chance of approval. 

 

I've also been getting things in order in the event that I do just end up moving to Cambodia. Even marrying, a consular can still deny a Visa.  And the stress I feel now, I can't imagine after getting married and still told no. 

CO’s don’t have the same subjective leeway with IV cases that they have with NIV (K) cases.

 

[jaysaldi 209]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:44 AM, Paul & Mary said:

The issue wasn't with the petition.  You are fine with USCIS.  The issue was the interview.

Maybe she didn't present well?  Maybe there was an issue with the Intent letters?  

 

Being there definitely helps.

 

Everything I've heard about the embassy in Phnom Penh is that your chances are much higher if the American petitioner is there. The Cambodians (mostly women) who show up for interviews without the petitioner are more likely to get denied. They actually collect the American's passport with the applicant's documents and give the passport to the consular officer who reviews the case. When my fiancee had her interview. the first three questions were from the consular officer to me about my intriguing and conversation starting passport stamps from obscure countries.

 

When you say "the issue was the interview" I would agree except I would clarify to say "the issue was the interview, or, more likely, with your "evidence of relationship" that the consular officer reviewed before calling the fiancee up for the interview.

In my case, my fiancee and I met 4.5 years ago and I have spent 400+ days in Cambodia since then. I know that's not required or the norm. But the officer asked me "Did you guys have a traditional engagement ceremony" and I said "Yes, the photos are at the end of the evidence of relationship packet there." She responded "Oh, I probably didn't get that far because I had already decided to give her the visa."

My fiancee did not interview well, like when asked "What type of wedding do you plan to have?" she answered "Romantic." When asked again what type of wedding we planned to have, she responded "To get married." It didn't matter.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:06 AM, Dataunavailable said:

That's entirely possible. The intent to marry letters, I thought, were good, they explained our intentions without sounding over dramatic. 

 

I don't know if I would consider it getting tripped up, but two questions and answers stick out to me in her interview.

 

One was why I only came one time. She said she had to think how to answer in English for a second and said, "He came to see me and for our engagement ceremony and to bring me to the U.S."

 

 

The intent to marry letters are just a boilerplate requirement for USCIS. The didn't even take them from my fiancee at the embassy in Phnom Penh.  

Am I to understand from your post above that you guys got engaged and agreed to marry one another before you ever met in person and that your first visit to Cambodia was for an engagement party? That's gonna set bells off.   It makes a reasonable person wonder, "Come on, is she really in love with this American guy or did she agree to marry him sight unseen at the urging of her aunt for the immigration benefits?"

And then she interviews without you, and the denial is not surprising to me. Since you were able to visit in May, I think you should have postponed her appointment until then.   Consular officers say "No" to foreigners who want to go to the USA all day long. It's easy for them. They're numb to it. It's a lot harder to look a fellow American in the eye and say "I'm going to block you from marrying who you want in the USA."

Are you Cambodian-American? That is also a red flag to them, as a lot of the marriage fraud involves Cambodian-Americans.

 

 

[jaysaldi 209]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:37 AM, Dataunavailable said:

I even took a picture of us both holding up the hotel receipt with our names on it. 

 

Don't submit a photo of both of you holding up a hotel receipt with your names on it. That's not a normal or natural photo to take. It screams "Look, we rented a hotel room just so we could take this photo of the receipt to convince you we are in a relationship."  

 

Just submit a copy of the hotel receipt and other documents that don't appear to be manufactured for the purpose of bolstering your claim for a visa.

 

[Dataunavailable 82]

8 hours ago, jaysaldi said:

 

Everything I've heard about the embassy in Phnom Penh is that your chances are much higher if the American petitioner is there. The Cambodians (mostly women) who show up for interviews without the petitioner are more likely to get denied. They actually collect the American's passport with the applicant's documents and give the passport to the consular officer who reviews the case. When my fiancee had her interview. the first three questions were from the consular officer to me about my intriguing and conversation starting passport stamps from obscure countries.

 

When you say "the issue was the interview" I would agree except I would clarify to say "the issue was the interview, or, more likely, with your "evidence of relationship" that the consular officer reviewed before calling the fiancee up for the interview.

In my case, my fiancee and I met 4.5 years ago and I have spent 400+ days in Cambodia since then. I know that's not required or the norm. But the officer asked me "Did you guys have a traditional engagement ceremony" and I said "Yes, the photos are at the end of the evidence of relationship packet there." She responded "Oh, I probably didn't get that far because I had already decided to give her the visa."

My fiancee did not interview well, like when asked "What type of wedding do you plan to have?" she answered "Romantic." When asked again what type of wedding we planned to have, she responded "To get married." It didn't matter.

 

 

The intent to marry letters are just a boilerplate requirement for USCIS. The didn't even take them from my fiancee at the embassy in Phnom Penh.  

Am I to understand from your post above that you guys got engaged and agreed to marry one another before you ever met in person and that your first visit to Cambodia was for an engagement party? That's gonna set bells off.   It makes a reasonable person wonder, "Come on, is she really in love with this American guy or did she agree to marry him sight unseen at the urging of her aunt for the immigration benefits?"

And then she interviews without you, and the denial is not surprising to me. Since you were able to visit in May, I think you should have postponed her appointment until then.   Consular officers say "No" to foreigners who want to go to the USA all day long. It's easy for them. They're numb to it. It's a lot harder to look a fellow American in the eye and say "I'm going to block you from marrying who you want in the USA."

Are you Cambodian-American? That is also a red flag to them, as a lot of the marriage fraud involves Cambodian-Americans.

 

 

I'm not Cambodian at all. We spoke consistently everyday for a year and a half before I decided to propose to her. I was there in April 2018 for two weeks, we had the engagement at the end of my trip so we could see how well we got on with each other before officially doing the celebration. So it was a go there, propose and have our engagement. 

 

It was another year later she had her interview,  March 2019 and I went again May 2019 about two weeks. So in total, we have been together three years now. What do you do if you don't mind me asking, that allows you 400+ days in Cambodia within 4.5 years? My job allows me enough vacation to go there roughly once a year, this year I will be seeing if I can possibly go again for two weeks around the end of the year, but my vacation is accrued on each pay period about 2.5 hours every two weeks. 

 

That's why this time, I plan on front loading more evidence,  chat logs from her talking with my mother and father, letters from friends and family that know of our relationship. My mom is legally able to marry and has offered to do our wedding at her house and officiate it, so I'll include a copy of her certificate as well. 

 

 

The picture was more of just us two being silly, just kind of a, well, we take this picture if they really want proof we were together. Nothing I would send in. 

[jaysaldi 209]

Please understand that what this embassy is primarily looking out for is fraud involving Cambodians who seek out Americans to marry for the immigration benefits. Your fiancee has a mother, sister, and aunt all living in the USA and all living in the same town. It's natural to assume that she really, really wants to move from Cambodia not just to the USA, but to that precise town to reunite with her family.

 

And then, lo and behold, she applies for a K-1 visa to marry not just any American man, but one from this very same town where her mom and sister and aunt live.  And the aunt found the American guy and urged him to contact her niece in Cambodia.  How fortuitous for her that the love of her life is an American man living in the same town as her family and who knows her aunt.

Moreover, the evidence reflects that she decided/agreed to marry this American man from her mom and sister's hometown before ever meeting him in person. You posted in your other thread "I met my fiance in Dec 2016, we talked everyday and I flew to Cambodia in April 2018 for an engagement ceremony. "  I believe you even flew to Cambodia with her sister.

 

It's not normal for Cambodian women to plan engagement ceremonies with men they have never met. The embassy's concern, quite simply, is that she is using you to get to the USA and to the town where her family lives.  I suspect that whenever the consular officers see engagement and wedding planning with an American before any meeting in person has occurred, they are going to be inclined to deny the petition.  You being from the same town as her family just heightens the concern of fraud even further.

 

In retrospect, I think it would have been better if you had met online, visited her in Cambodia, and proposed at the end of that trip but without any kind of engagement ceremony planned during that trip. Then you could have filed the K-1 visa and visited Cambodia again for her interview and held an engagement ceremony around the time of the interview, and brought the photos or invitations or invoices relating to ceremony to the embassy as evidence of the relationship. That's the expected course of how these online relationships go. 

 

I don't know that re-filing a K-1 petition now and saying "We met one more time and here are more chat logs" is going to do much good.  It might be approved the second time around, but it might not. Your situation won't have changed that much. The embassy's concern isn't "these two lovebirds haven't chatted online long enough."  They know she chats online with you every day and says "I love you, I miss you, etc."  They may not care if she also chats online with your parents.  They won't care that your friends sign letters saying that that you're gaga for her. Their concern is: "This smells fishy because he's from the same town as her family and her aunt set them up and then she jumped at the chance to get engaged to him before meeting him in person. She may be using this poor sucker to get to the USA."  

 

Here's what I think you should do, if you really love this woman. Move to Cambodia for a year. Thousands of young Western guys are now moving to Cambodia every month. They teach English or work online and hang out in coffee shops discussing their hipster beards and man buns. Spend a year living with her in Cambodia. If, at the end of that year, you still want to marry her, get married in Cambodia and file the CR-1.  

 

Also, if and when you do refile something, I'd include some evidence proving that you paid for the flight tickets and engagement ceremony and ring and that her family isn't pulling the financial strings here.

[sineth 0]

Your love story sounds genuine to me. Some couple got lucky with just a single visit and others are sadly denied.

 

I got married in Phnom Penh and had a beautiful wedding. The paperwork for a marriage certificate through the Cambodian government was a headache and time consuming (3-4 months). And, now, in the early stage of CR1-Visa process and planning to be there for the interview once that time approaches.

 

All the best to you!

[SmallTownPA 71]

On 8/16/2019 at 2:08 AM, jaysaldi said:

Don't submit a photo of both of you holding up a hotel receipt with your names on it. That's not a normal or natural photo to take. It screams "Look, we rented a hotel room just so we could take this photo of the receipt to convince you we are in a relationship."  

 

Just submit a copy of the hotel receipt and other documents that don't appear to be manufactured for the purpose of bolstering your claim for a visa.

 

You need to learn about primary and secondary evidence.

 

Any photo that has 3rd party confirmation is beneficial.   Submitting a receipt alone... did you pay a clerk $5 to write that for you?  See how useless it is without context?  Now have both people holding it?  You have stronger proof that it actually happened.

 

[Dataunavailable 82]

7 hours ago, Sineth said:

Your love story sounds genuine to me. Some couple got lucky with just a single visit and others are sadly denied.

 

I got married in Phnom Penh and had a beautiful wedding. The paperwork for a marriage certificate through the Cambodian government was a headache and time consuming (3-4 months). And, now, in the early stage of CR1-Visa process and planning to be there for the interview once that time approaches.

 

All the best to you!

Did you live in Cambodia while having the wedding set up? Or did you set it up and than travel, I know the wedding process there is not easy at all, which is why I can't just give up my job to move there for even half a year, they require the Male to make $2500 a month in wages, I can't stay in Cambodia longer than three weeks at a time without quitting my job, quitting my job is no income and no income I don't qualify to marry in Cambodia. 

 

Did you hire a fixer to take care of all the paperwork? I've talked with others who have married in Cambodia and they all suggest to hire a fixer, someone who you pay money to take care of the process and speed it up so to say, whatever they do, under the table money, who knows.