Ready to begin AOS but do I need a layer?

[Loren Y 2,732]

Did all the forms myself. The AOS became pretty easy after the grueling K1, but I was new at everything back in December 2017 when I started this process. The AOS seemed like a cakewalk after you get the hang of the forms and how to follow the guides. What was nice is I was able to basically use most of the paperwork from one of the 2 full copies of my K1 application, so it was literally just putting things together in the right order( using the guides here on VJ). So, don't think you need a lawyer.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Loren Y

[bakphx1 785]

I would consult with one before submitting any document that could be taken as fraudulent intent or abuse of the ESTA visa.  

 

You may have to go the I130 route which involves waiting.  Like all of us did.

[martin bk 19]

I married my husband in 2016, returned to the uk and started the CR1, came to visit in June 2017 on my ESTA and ended up staying and doing AOS, I sent the paperwork in about 4 days before my 90 days were up, didn’t use a lawyer just filled in the forms, got my green card - no major issues. 

[Ash.1101 1,755]

16 hours ago, username_taken said:

This^^^^

 

@craig21123  Your last thread was Jan 22nd where you stated you were set to depart on Jan 9th but found out she was pregnant. Members outlined the 2 possible paths- K or CR. You repeatedly stated you did not overstay- so I am assuming you left the US and have since returned under ESTA. Because you were very aware of the 2 paths on Jan 22nd it is very hard to believe you returned on ESTA in late March and it was not your intention to bypass the 129f or 130 process. 

 

Visajourney has a very strict policy on fraud and assisting with fraud. Before I ask for the thread to be closed accordingly I am going to wait for you to respond and perhaps clarify things, however I dont really see anyway you can justify coming back on ESTA to marry and stay- which it seems you are doing. Correct me if Im wrong.

The problem/issue right now on VJ is that a lot of people in their situation are now being told "If you're already in the US just get married and adjust! Intent was determined at the border!".

There are more and more people supporting the "well if you're already here, just do it" which is a slippery slope in terms of what is and what is not fraud. Not to mention the "Well if the CBP believes you are there for a visit, as long as you clearly haven't made any plans to marry (rent venue, buy dress, etc) then they have to go with what the CBP put in!"

Not to mention the post right above mine saying they were doing the visa and then decided to visit and stay and AOS instead lol.

I'd imagine this is why the OP chose this path.


Also I'm assuming the OP did not leave.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Ash.1101

[eckoin 211]

1 hour ago, Ash.1101 said:

The problem/issue right now on VJ is that a lot of people in their situation are now being told "If you're already in the US just get married and adjust! Intent was determined at the border!".

There are more and more people supporting the "well if you're already here, just do it" which is a slippery slope in terms of what is and what is not fraud. Not to mention the "Well if the CBP believes you are there for a visit, as long as you clearly haven't made any plans to marry (rent venue, buy dress, etc) then they have to go with what the CBP put in!"

Not to mention the post right above mine saying they were doing the visa and then decided to visit and stay and AOS instead lol.

I'd imagine this is why the OP chose this path.


Also I'm assuming the OP did not leave.

I posted a general discussion thread once that was (rightfully, I get it) locked. My thinking is that there are few people who come to the US on tourist visas and, being quirky and fun guys and gals, just decide to get married because why not. Bonus points for "I came to visit and met the love of my life last week, we're getting married tomorrow!"

 

I imagine the intent is there in a lot of these cases--not all perhaps, but please.

 

And it is fraud, and it's also pretty much unenforceable.

 

You can't ban adjustment from tourist visas in general, because some people overstayed their tourist visas, made an (illegal but hey) life for themselves, and genuinely did meet someone special. Can't prevent them from adjusting status. And you can't make it so that only expired tourist statues are OK, because everyone else will just wait until it's expired. So here we are. 

 

Here's a doozy: what do you think about US citizens whose SOs are visiting the US on tourist visas, with full intention to only visit. But the US citizen is planning to propose, marry, and adjust status. The potential immigrant has no such intent. Fraud? Not fraud? 

Edited March 31, 2019 by eckoin

[Ash.1101 1,755]

1 hour ago, eckoin said:

 

 

Here's a doozy: what do you think about US citizens whose SOs are visiting the US on tourist visas, with full intention to only visit. But the US citizen is planning to propose, marry, and adjust status. The potential immigrant has no such intent. Fraud? Not fraud? 

 

I’ve actually seen this posted by a poster before. They planned on proposing to their SO when they visited and planned on just getting them to agree to marriage an AOS.

 

its fraud on the USCs side, but since the immigrant came in honestly there’s nothing that would ever come of it.

 

i think the problem with it is a case of “if a tree falls in the forest but there’s no one to hear it does it still fall?”

 

if if you commit obvious fraud and you’re sitting on like receipts and invitations and prepped AOS while waltzing in on a visa that -MAY- be enforceable if there’s like a statement of the person saying “HEY GUYS IM GOING TO COME IN MARRY AND STAY!”

 

the problem is most aren’t that blatant so they get away with it.

 

Sadly moral fraud (do the wrong thing) and legal fraud (actual proof they did the wrong thing that USCIS can enforce) are two different realms with USCIS.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Ash.1101

[discoverusa 229]

I would say he has to convince IO on whether there was intent to adjust or not. I am so tired of everyone screaming visa fraud when those situations are presented on VJ. 

 

It is legal to adjust status from different visas other than K1. I know a lot of VJ members despise this fact by yelling visa fraud every time someone presents that idea. 

 

There are many laws that may seem unfair to some, but they are nonetheless laws whether we like it or not. 

[swalker 137]

It’s true. We did a K1, and since then two sets of ppl we know have come to us for immigration advice. We always presented the K1/CR1 paths. Both disregarded, came here on tourist visas and are currently adjusting. 

[eckoin 211]

34 minutes ago, Ash.1101 said:

 

I’ve actually seen this posted by a poster before. They planned on proposing to their SO when they visited and planned on just getting them to agree to marriage an AOS.

 

its fraud on the USCs side, but since the immigrant came in honestly there’s nothing that would ever come of it.

Is it though? Immigration fraud is marrying someone for non-bona fide reasons (not the case for this hypothetical, and it happens often enough in this way), or getting married on a non-immigrant visa by having lied about your intentions at entry. The USC is within their right to propose to anyone they wish, and the intending immigrant broke no rules at all--they had no intention to adjust status during the visit. Morally wrong? Yes. Legally wrong? I don't know, I don't think so. 

 

Kind of like my issue with people who sponsor fraudulent marriages, knowing full well they're fraudulent. They did "nothing wrong" legally, because at no point do they have to declare that the whole thing is being done in good faith. 

Quote

i think the problem with it is a case of “if a tree falls in the forest but there’s no one to hear it does it still fall?”

 

if if you commit obvious fraud and you’re sitting on like receipts and invitations and prepped AOS while waltzing in on a visa that -MAY- be enforceable if there’s like a statement of the person saying “HEY GUYS IM GOING TO COME IN MARRY AND STAY!”

 

the problem is most aren’t that blatant so they get away with it.

 

Sadly moral fraud (do the wrong thing) and legal fraud (actual proof they did the wrong thing that USCIS can enforce) are two different realms with USCIS.

And I agree with that, and I do think that real, actual fraud is mostly unenforceable as well--unfortunately. How can anyone prove that, when you said "I mean to do no such thing" you weren't lying? You probably were.

 

14 minutes ago, discoverusa said:

I would say he has to convince IO on whether there was intent to adjust or not. I am so tired of everyone screaming visa fraud when those situations are presented on VJ. 

 

It is legal to adjust status from different visas other than K1. I know a lot of VJ members despise this fact by yelling visa fraud every time someone presents that idea. 

 

There are many laws that may seem unfair to some, but they are nonetheless laws whether we like it or not. 

I adjusted status from non-K1. It wasn't fradulent. But if you think that the people entering on tourist visas and getting married right away are all innocent of immigration fraud, you're delusional. There just isn't a good way to properly assess the intent or the situation. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by eckoin

[discoverusa 229]

2 hours ago, eckoin said:

Is it though? Immigration fraud is marrying someone for non-bona fide reasons (not the case for this hypothetical, and it happens often enough in this way), or getting married on a non-immigrant visa by having lied about your intentions at entry. The USC is within their right to propose to anyone they wish, and the intending immigrant broke no rules at all--they had no intention to adjust status during the visit. Morally wrong? Yes. Legally wrong? I don't know, I don't think so. 

 

Kind of like my issue with people who sponsor fraudulent marriages, knowing full well they're fraudulent. They did "nothing wrong" legally, because at no point do they have to declare that the whole thing is being done in good faith. 

And I agree with that, and I do think that real, actual fraud is mostly unenforceable as well--unfortunately. How can anyone prove that, when you said "I mean to do no such thing" you weren't lying? You probably were.

 

I adjusted status from non-K1. It wasn't fradulent. But if you think that the people entering on tourist visas and getting married right away are all innocent of immigration fraud, you're delusional. There just isn't a good way to properly assess the intent or the situation. 

I don't really appreciate you calling me delusional, but I guess this is always a risk when posting on a public forum. 

 

I didn't read the posting history of original poster. I was just impling that in general people in VJ are very quick to scream fraud. 

[Villanelle 4,121]

8 hours ago, Ash.1101 said:

Also I'm assuming the OP did not leave.

I am not sure if the OP left or not. Hence why I said he needs to come back and clarify. I read his postings several times. He mentions repeatedly in it that he was only here for 86 days and DID NOT OVERSTAY- that his stamp was until Jan 13th. So it appears he did leave, however we cant be certain. IF he did leave, he was advised of the 2 paths for a visa and how pregnancy wont expedite him. And apparently he decided to use ESTA to shortcut to AOS instead of the legal options given to him- and he has just entered again on ESTA and is asking about the 90 day rule for when he can apply for AOS. Perhaps the OP has decided not to reply any further to not implicate himself but the damage is already done. He posted his location and travel dates and as others have mentioned USCIS monitors VJ as well as other websites for fraud. He would be foolish to continue with this AOS on ESTA path but to each their own. My concern is more about VJ endorsing this fraud by not locking this thread. I suppose if the OP never returns it will just die out though. 

[millefleur 5,035]

**Thread locked from further comment to prevent any TOS violations regarding visa fraud. OP has already received sufficient and proper answers to the questions at hand.**

 

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