B1/B2 Visa Denied : Incentive Trip and with Kids in the Application

[tonetz2019 0]

Hello!

 

We had our B1/B2 visa interview just yesterday (US Embassy Manila) .

Bale we were all seven  on the appointment and the following are the profile:

Applicant #1 :   Married
                        Office Employee
                         Income per month : Php 1x,xxx
                         Countries visited: Japan, South Korea, UAE, China, HK, Macau, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam (all company incentive)
                         More than 20 years with our company 

Applicant #2:    Married
                        Office Employee
                       Income per month : Php 2x,xxx
                       Countries visited: Japan, UAE, China(2x), HK, Macau, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore (all company  
                         incentive)  
                       More than 20 years with our company

Applicant #3: Married and included in her application is her 4 - year old daughter
                       Office Employee 
                      Income per month: Php 2x,xxx
                       Countries visited: Japan, South Korea, China, Hong kong, Macau, Vietnam (all company incentive),  
                       Thailand, Laos, Malaysia (paid by self) and travelled to HK and Macau last year with the family
                        More than 15 years with the company

Applicant #4:  Married and included in her application is her husband (a Civil Engineer) and 2-year old  
                       daughter
                      Office Employee
                      Income per month : Applicant : Php 3x,xxx and husband Php 2x,xxx
                      Countries visited: Australia, New Zealand, UAE, South Korea(2x), Japan(2x), China(2x), Hong Kong, 
                       Macau, Malaysia, Vietnam (all company incentive), for self paid: Laos, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore 
                                 Husband: China, Hong Kong, Macau (all company incentive)
                                 Family: Hong Kong and Macau

All adult applicants (including husband of applicant #4) works in the same company and our trip to US is a company incentive since we have been to almost all Asian Countries.  Ten (10) days only.

Our interview was scheduled at 7:00am (this was the only slot during appointment na available for the applicants).

Since applicants 3 and 4 has kids  they were given an E card (priority). Applicant #1 and #2 followed the normal queue.  They did not join #3 and #4.

The interview process:

Applicant # 1 
Consul: Purpose of travel?
A1: short vacation
C: Do you have relatives in the US?
A1: Yes
C: Are you married?
A1: Yes
C: Where is your husband, is he not joining you?
A1: No, because he has work
C: How many children do you have?
A1: Two
C: Countries visited
A1: enumerated above
**** VISA WAS APPROVED***

Applicant #2
C: Purpose of travel
A2: Short vacation
C: How many days?
A2: Ten days
C: Where?
A2: Los Angeles
C: What is your position in your company?
A2: xxxxxx
C: How long have you been with the company?
A2: 22 years
C: Where is your husband?
A2: he is at work 
**** VISA WAS APPROVED*****

Different consuls interviewed A1 and A2

Applicant # 3 

C: Purpose
A3: Short vacation 
C: Where?
A3: Los Angeles
C: How many days?
A3: 10 days only
C: Where do you work?
A3: mentioned name of our company
C: asked for A3's Certificate of Employment
A3: showed the sponsorship letter and COE
C: Are you going only with your child?
A3: Yes
C: How about your husband?
A3: No, because he is busy with work as a government employee (an engineer)
C: Counties visited
A3: mentioned above and told the consul that it was all company incentive
C: will your boss join you on this trip?
A3: yes
***VISA WAS DENIED****

Applicant #4, interviewed by the same consul (window 30) who interviewed A3
C: Purpose of trip
A4: short vacation, for tourism
C: how are you related
A4: we are family (husband and daughter)
C: how long have you been married?
A4: three years
C: how old is your daughter? May I see her birth certificate.
A4: she just turned 2 
C: tsk tsk while looking at the certificate
C: where will you go in the US?
A4: mentioned the cities we will be visiting
C: Do you have friends and relatives?
A4: yes, an aunt, my father's cousin
C: Where do you work?
A4: mentioned name of company
C: what do you do for them?
A4: mentioned job title
C: how big is your company?
A4: mentioned that it is a AAA construction firm, one of the biggest in Baguio City
C: how many employees
A4: mentioned number of employees
C: do you manage some of the employees
A4: Yes
C: How much do you earn?
A4: Php 3x,xxx
C: How long have you been with the company?
A4: SIXTEEN YEARS

Husband was asked:
C: what is your work?
H: Project Engineer
C: Where?
H: same company as my wife
C: how much do you earn?
H: Php 2x,xxx
C: How long have you been with the company?
A4: ELEVEN YEARS
C: Do you hold a diploma in Civil Engineering?
A4: yes, sir.

C: countries visited by the whole family
A4: just last year we went to HK and Macau
C: Company incentive?
A4: No (it was not a company incentive, children are not included in our company's incentive program. and daughter's plane ticket to the US will be paid by the parents)

The consul did not ask A4 and husband which countries they have visited
***VISA WAS DENIED***

Need your help guys, what could have been wrong with the interview of applicant #3 and #4.  Applicants were truthful and honest with their answers.

Applicant #4 was not asked of the countries she visited, she felt that she was not given a chance to present well her travel history as well as the husband.

Applicant #3 and #4 plans to re-apply, its a pity if the incentive trip will not be able to avail by 3 and 4. Do you think it would be better to apply alone without the family?

Need your insights please.  Thank you very much in advance.

[geowrian 22,335]

23 minutes ago, tonetz2019 said:

Need your help guys, what could have been wrong with the interview of applicant #3 and #4.  Applicants were truthful and honest with their answers.

Nothing sounds like it went wrong with the interview. They did all they could by answering honestly.

It sounds like their circumstances were insufficient to convince the CO of their intent to return home.

 

23 minutes ago, tonetz2019 said:

Applicant #4 was not asked of the countries she visited, she felt that she was not given a chance to present well her travel history as well as the husband.

I don't believe showing the travel history would have altered their decision in any way. The CO knew enough already about the material circumstances to make a decision.

 

23 minutes ago, tonetz2019 said:

Applicant #3 and #4 plans to re-apply, its a pity if the incentive trip will not be able to avail by 3 and 4. Do you think it would be better to apply alone without the family?

They are free to try, but a recent refusal and no change in circumstances is likely (but not guaranteed!) to have the same outcome.

 

I know there are people who believe it's just a matter of luck/chance what the CO will decide. Many people know somebody who applied multiple times and eventually got a different result.

That said, far, far more often the same result occurs.

No single item resulted in the refusal. It's not a matter of changing one response or item that will alter the outcome.

 

Best wishes to both of them.

[tonetz2019 0]

17 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Nothing sounds like it went wrong with the interview. They did all they could by answering honestly.

It sounds like their circumstances were insufficient to convince the CO of their intent to return home.

 

I don't believe showing the travel history would have altered their decision in any way. The CO knew enough already about the material circumstances to make a decision.

 

They are free to try, but a recent refusal and no change in circumstances is likely (but not guaranteed!) to have the same outcome.

 

I know there are people who believe it's just a matter of luck/chance what the CO will decide. Many people know somebody who applied multiple times and eventually got a different result.

That said, far, far more often the same result occurs.

No single item resulted in the refusal. It's not a matter of changing one response or item that will alter the outcome.

 

Best wishes to both of them.

Thank you for the insights @geowrian, much appreciated.

 

They are free to try, but a recent refusal and no change in circumstances is likely (but not guaranteed!) to have the same outcome.

 

Will the non- inclusion of the husband and kids in the trip not considered as a CHANGE IN CIRCUMSTANCES?  Just to prove the CO that the applicants will be coming back because their family is here?

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by tonetz2019

[millefleur 5,035]

25 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I don't believe showing the travel history would have altered their decision in any way. The CO knew enough already about the material circumstances to make a decision.

Also, the travel history would've been known to the CO based on the DS-160. So there really isn't any reason to discuss about it during the interview if the complete travel history was filled in on the DS-160. I am sure there are instances where travel history comes up as a point of discussion in some cases like you mentioned above, but it's not a super common one during tourist visa interviews as far as I know.

Edited February 1, 2019 by millefleur

[tonetz2019 0]

1 minute ago, millefleur said:

Also, the travel history would've been known to the CO based on the DS-160. So there really isn't any reason to discuss about it during the interview if the complete travel history was filled in on the DS-160. I am sure there are instances where travel history comes up as a point of discussion in some cases, but it's not a common one during tourist visa interviews as far as I know.

Hi @millefleur, thanks for the response.

 

As per the DS 160 we filled out, if the applicant is a female, travel history was not asked on the online DS-160 form.  AS per my observation, only male applicants were asked of their travel history.  That's the case here in the Philippines, I just do not know if the CO or the US embassy has a way of determining one's travel history prior to the interview

[millefleur 5,035]

11 minutes ago, tonetz2019 said:

Hi @millefleur, thanks for the response.

 

As per the DS 160 we filled out, if the applicant is a female, travel history was not asked on the online DS-160 form.  AS per my observation, only male applicants were asked of their travel history.  That's the case here in the Philippines, I just do not know if the CO or the US embassy has a way of determining one's travel history prior to the interview

Huh, that is really strange. I'm more familiar with Russians applying to tourist visas but I know for fact that on the DS-160, they ask female applicants for travel history there.

[tonetz2019 0]

Just now, millefleur said:

Huh, that is really strange. I'm more familiar with Russians applying to tourist visas but I know for fact that on the DS-160, they ask female applicants for travel history there.

Unfortunately here in the Philippines, no travel history was asked

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

If they didn’t ask about travel history then it wasn’t considered important to the decision. As I answered before, I think there was suspicion about the idea of taking families along on a work incentive trip especially when other employees with families aren’t. If they have the money and time, sure they can apply again on their own, they can expect difficulty with having just had a visa refused. 

 

I am sure there are many countries not in the US and not in Asia that can be used for incentives if their visa applications are still unsuccessful. Out of interest, how big is the whole company, and is it a family owned company?

Edited February 1, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[Boiler 43,426]

Male or female the application form is the same.

 

Consulate are well aware that leaving children behind does not guarantee return, plenty of evidence here to support that.

 

Simple solution would be to go an incentive trip somewhere else.

[WeGuyGal 1,052]

Why the US?

[geowrian 22,335]

9 hours ago, tonetz2019 said:

Will the non- inclusion of the husband and kids in the trip not considered as a CHANGE IN CIRCUMSTANCES?  Just to prove the CO that the applicants will be coming back because their family is here?

Their circumstances are the same regardless of who applies.

Unfortunately, there are many cases where parents left their children behind initially, then later petitioned for the children if/once they became eligible. It's not uncommon with PH in particular.

 

8 hours ago, tonetz2019 said:

As per the DS 160 we filled out, if the applicant is a female, travel history was not asked on the online DS-160 form.  AS per my observation, only male applicants were asked of their travel history.  That's the case here in the Philippines, I just do not know if the CO or the US embassy has a way of determining one's travel history prior to the interview

The travel history is stated on the DS-160. This does not vary by gender.

 

All but 1 applicant (and a 2 year old) were asked about their travel history at the interview. The 1 not asked happened to be female. I wouldn't draw inferences that only males are asked for their travel histories based on 1 individual (plus I know females in PH asked about this).

[Georgia16 2,858]

When I read the interview I really also looked at # and #4 before I saw they were denied.

 

#3 Is traveling for vacation with her daughter but answer yes when asked if her boss will join in on the trip. Why would a boss join in on a vacation?

 

Kind of the same with #4 also say they are traveling for vacation and they are asked if it is work incentive then replay no but then say that the daughter's tickets are paid for by her parents? So who pays for the parent's tickets? so if it's vacation why aren't they paying for all the tickets themselves?

 

Sound like #3 and #4 are going for work but applied for a tourist visa and saying they are going on vacation.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

It occurs to me that if #3 and #4 reapply by themselves, a CO may wonder why it seems more important for them to go to the US without their families, than somewhere else with them? (Just thinking of my own family - in this situation we would certainly rather find a different destination to go to together. If the company is offering an incentive trip surely it has an alternative for those who can’t get visas?)

 

Still wondering about size and make-up of the company, and whether that had anything to do with the decision. Unlike georgia16 I admit i didn’t read all the details of all interviews on this thread (I’d read the previous one, not all English so missed some stuff) and yes it looks a bit odd. Even just having all the employees with their visa interviews at the same time seems a bit strange (I guess maybe a company assistant booked the slots though). And what kind of level exactly is “office employee”? This could mean anything from the tea lady to the CEO?

[SB5130 88]

11 hours ago, tonetz2019 said:

Hi @millefleur, thanks for the response.

 

As per the DS 160 we filled out, if the applicant is a female, travel history was not asked on the online DS-160 form.  AS per my observation, only male applicants were asked of their travel history.  That's the case here in the Philippines, I just do not know if the CO or the US embassy has a way of determining one's travel history prior to the interview

Not entirely true. I am a Filipina and I had applied for a US visa 3 times - B1, B1/B2 and K-1 (all approved). For all interviews, i was asked for my travel history. I don't think the CO discriminates base on gender. 

 

In my opinion, the one that makes the difference was applicant #3 when she mentioned that  the trip was company incentive. If you observe, the same CO asked applicant #4 if it is a company incentive. Neither any of the applicants approved ever mentioned that their trips were company incentive. 

 

If you are the CO and you are trained to doubt, would you be easily convinced if "a company is sending off 4 employees and they are covering the expense for free?". More questions would arise I think. Like,

- is this company anyway connected to any company in US.  

Edited February 1, 2019 by SB5130

[SB5130 88]

Also, based on Applicant 3's interview:

😄 Counties visited
A3: mentioned above and told the consul that it was all company incentive

 

-------------------------------------

I am not a CO but what i can derived from this is that:

yes you have been here and there BUT, you had not paid for it. 

 

I believe it would have been okay if it was kept simple. Do not volunteer unnecessary info unless asked. If the CO asked for countries visited, provided just the countries visited.