K1 Visa Denied at Interview in Islamabad

[geowrian 22,336]

13 hours ago, moejangda said:

We ran this engagement party by our attorney well before we pursued it.

What does the attorney say about the "too married" reason for denial?

 

9 hours ago, HP+IC said:

The culture in Ukraine is average European and not that different, we do not have customary or unconventional weddings to confuse the COs.

True, although I have seen the same reason for denial from European and other "Western" countries due to an engagement party that looked too close to a wedding.

 

1 hour ago, bad4tatt said:

I wonder if you can file an appeal with proof that you are not married???

Nope. How does one prove they did not marry? They could have married in the home country or abroad. There's no way to prove that a marriage did not occur...just (potentially) that there is no record of one in x spots they checked.

[Derik-Lina 230]

14 hours ago, moejangda said:

My fiancé's visa was denied in Islamabad because the CO believed we were "too married." Has anyone ever heard of this before? we've traveled together to three different countries after we filed the initial petition and he seemed to be quite bothered by that. We also lived together back in the states for awhile when she was a student. It really feels like he made an assumption based on Pakistani cultural norms in the sense that most engaged couples haven't lived together or vacation together until after marriage. He said to file for a CR-1 or to file an appeal but how does one even argue against someone saying we seem "too married"? If we were married we wouldn't have gone through this year long process in the first place because we'd already be together in the states.... What's our response supposed to be here? "Sorry we try to do as much together as we can until we're legally allowed to be married and live together. We'll try to love each other less."

Personally, I have noticed more and more K1 denials in Certain countries, and rightfully so; 

It is both culturally and religiously unacceptable for a couple to live together unmarried.

Yes, there are exceptions, but the CO s look at the cultural norms as a whole.

Honestly, it is difficult to see true K1 s in places like Morocco or Pakistan.

Families and Girls/Women are extremely careful when it comes to Virginity and Honor.

Why they go for K1 Visas instead of CR1s? One could safely say K1 takes less time.

My advice is that you start your CR1 process asap and best of luck to you two  

Edited November 14, 2018 by Derik-Lina

[Amit&Julie 180]

In my opinion, it was the living and traveling together, presumably without any chaperones, that really put the nail in the K1 coffin for the Pakistani OP. 

 

It's been a while, but I do remember reading some cases on here from India at least where a K1 was denied because the couple traveled together, especially to romantic places like Maldives, and it was just the two of them. Couples may do that nowadays, sure, but the CO still viewed it as being outside cultural norms and probably figured they were already married. With Pakistan I can see that being even more outside the norm.

 

Sorry, OP. Gotta go for the CR-1 now. Best wishes.

[Boiler 43,567]

What Pakistani Father would allow an unmarried daughter travel in such circumstances?

[James D 39]

20 hours ago, NuestraUnion said:

Wish you would have found this site before filing. We would have advised you not to do the engagement party.

I think many people find this site AFTER they have made a bad decision, myself included.

[Amit&Julie 180]

It's water under the bridge at this point, but I really don't think the engagement party/ceremony was the root cause. I'm saying this because I don't think @moejangda's example should be cited in the future as evidence of this. Engagement party is the red herring to me. Bigger picture issue was that 2 supposedly unmarried people, at least 1 of whom is from a traditionally very conservative culture, lived and traveled together.

 

This wasn't mentioned originally, but @moejangda, is the US citizen also of Indian or Pakistani descent? If so, might make the pre-marital "adventures" doubly suspicious in the eyes of the CO. Are there other red flags such as age gap, religious differences, prior marriages or kids etc.?

 

If the CO was already suspicious of the couple's "history" and then happened to see photos from the cousin's party where they both dressed up, that might have sealed the deal. But again, I don't think it's the root cause.

[Ryan H 3,791]

***Several hijack posts and replies to said posts removed; if you have a question about your own case or circumstances, you need to start your own thread.  Posts in this thread are to be in response to the OP only; appropriate Administrative Action will be taken if this thread is hijacked again.***

[space-cadet 2]

12 hours ago, adil-rafa said:

You can not appeal a denied K1 

and although your attorney did not know this was way outside the cultural norms,  you do

now, to be together,  you need to marry and file and wait

it does look like u were too married and happens with many countries

Interesting. My fiancé did mention to me that the CO said our options were to file an appeal or apply for a CR-1. Nonetheless, she could've misheard. Thanks for your feedback

[Boiler 43,567]

Theoretical there is an appeal, in practice they are just left to die.

[space-cadet 2]

10 hours ago, bad4tatt said:

Absolutely, he eluded to him thinking you're already married based on the CR1 statement and I agree with you about Pakistani weddings, they are HUGE. I have been to a few.  I wonder if you can file an appeal with proof that you are not married???

Thanks for your response @bad4tatt. We sat down and considered our options for awhile. We're hesitant to move forward with an appeal because if it gets rejected we'll have wasted the amount of time it took to file the appeal and have it seen through. There is of course the chance that the decision gets overturned due to the appeal. I think we would feel a bit more confident about an appeal if we could find statistical data or a distribution of how many appeals were actually successful though even then (assuming success > failure) it might be difficult because the numbers may mask the likelihood that everyone's reason for appeal is quite different.

 

We're going to decide for sure tomorrow but we're both leaning towards the CR-1 route. We've made it through one year apart and we both have very high hopes that we can make it through another. While i'd never ever wish this upon anyone else, our time apart has most definitely strengthened our bond and we're hoping that this additional time apart will continue to strengthen our relationship even more.

[space-cadet 2]

10 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Small consolation but no, she’d just have been waiting for her CR1 interview rather than a K1 interview.  

@SusieQQQ, my mistake. What i meant was that: had we gotten married while she was still in the states after she graduated (assuming that was possible and not a violation of her student visa) we wouldn't be in this position in the first place. Regardless, i was a bit emotional when i initially posted this and feel i came off a bit too harsh. I definitely see what you're saying though given that i was ambiguous 

[Boiler 43,567]

7 minutes ago, moejangda said:

Thanks for your response @bad4tatt. We sat down and considered our options for awhile. We're hesitant to move forward with an appeal because if it gets rejected we'll have wasted the amount of time it took to file the appeal and have it seen through. There is of course the chance that the decision gets overturned due to the appeal. I think we would feel a bit more confident about an appeal if we could find statistical data or a distribution of how many appeals were actually successful though even then (assuming success > failure) it might be difficult because the numbers may mask the likelihood that everyone's reason for appeal is quite different.

 

We're going to decide for sure tomorrow but we're both leaning towards the CR-1 route. We've made it through one year apart and we both have very high hopes that we can make it through another. While i'd never ever wish this upon anyone else, our time apart has most definitely strengthened our bond and we're hoping that this additional time apart will continue to strengthen our relationship even more.

As has been mentioned there is effectively no appeal to a K1.

[space-cadet 2]

9 hours ago, George & Roth said:

I got engaged and had a party, I also included photos from our engagement in my submission. We had our names put up on some of the decorations and I was certain to pick ones which had some decoration including the word "engagement." It also was labeled that way on the photo booklet we received from the photographer. 

 

I included a few notarized letters, for example from my parents saying they met my fiance and attended our engagement. Letter included other details but the party was one of them!

 

Even though I included this on my initial submission you can still go and get it done now if you hadn't already.

 

 

Just trying to "unfreakout" the people worried. Now is your chance to gather that additional evidence so you are prepared!

Providing letters with what you mentioned is an excellent idea and i truly wish i would've thought of this beforehand! Generally, i feel terrible because i can't shake the belief that i let my fiancé down by being ignorant and not doing my own research or putting the amount of time, care and detail into this process that i should have. I unfortunately put too much faith in the notion that our attorney and paralegal knew what they were doing and had it under control but that was my mistake. I should've been on top of everything from day 1. This next time around i'm not going to make the same mistake

[space-cadet 2]

8 hours ago, Derik-Lina said:

Personally, I have noticed more and more K1 denials in Certain countries, and rightfully so; 

It is both culturally and religiously unacceptable for a couple to live together unmarried.

Yes, there are exceptions, but the CO s look at the cultural norms as a whole.

Honestly, it is difficult to see true K1 s in places like Morocco or Pakistan.

Families and Girls/Women are extremely careful when it comes to Virginity and Honor.

Why they go for K1 Visas instead of CR1s? One could safely say K1 takes less time.

My advice is that you start your CR1 process asap and best of luck to you two  

 @Derik-Lina Looking back i do feel pretty stupid that i didn't take this into consideration. you're totally right. We asked our attorney whether we should pursue a CR-1 or a K1 and took their advice without looking into anything ourselves. That's our fault. Thanks for the positive words!

[space-cadet 2]

4 hours ago, Amit&Julie said:

In my opinion, it was the living and traveling together, presumably without any chaperones, that really put the nail in the K1 coffin for the Pakistani OP. 

 

It's been a while, but I do remember reading some cases on here from India at least where a K1 was denied because the couple traveled together, especially to romantic places like Maldives, and it was just the two of them. Couples may do that nowadays, sure, but the CO still viewed it as being outside cultural norms and probably figured they were already married. With Pakistan I can see that being even more outside the norm.

 

Sorry, OP. Gotta go for the CR-1 now. Best wishes.

 

 

1 hour ago, Amit&Julie said:

It's water under the bridge at this point, but I really don't think the engagement party/ceremony was the root cause. I'm saying this because I don't think @moejangda's example should be cited in the future as evidence of this. Engagement party is the red herring to me. Bigger picture issue was that 2 supposedly unmarried people, at least 1 of whom is from a traditionally very conservative culture, lived and traveled together.

 

This wasn't mentioned originally, but @moejangda, is the US citizen also of Indian or Pakistani descent? If so, might make the pre-marital "adventures" doubly suspicious in the eyes of the CO. Are there other red flags such as age gap, religious differences, prior marriages or kids etc.?

 

If the CO was already suspicious of the couple's "history" and then happened to see photos from the cousin's party where they both dressed up, that might have sealed the deal. But again, I don't think it's the root cause.

 

Firstly, thanks for your response. Here are the answers to your questions:

1. I am the US citizen and i am of Pakistani descent.

2. There's a 4 year age difference between my fiance and I, no religious differences or prior marriages.

 

I believe your analysis is spot on. Cultural norms are definitely something we should've considered but unfortunately didn't. Neglecting to consider this is something that will irk me for a very long time but seems counterproductive for us (my fiance and i) to sit and mope about. We're going to pursue the CR-1 and not take it as lightly as we did the K1

 

Thanks for your wishes