Blue Wave

[Dashinka 23,262]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

I know this is an "old" post that was resurrected (well not THAT old) but...

 

In no way does a population-based voting system mean that people in rural areas "do not count at all". They count as much as every other human that votes counts. That is the whole point. You can argue that isn't fair, which is fine...but that doesn't mean their vote doesn't count. Each person is worth one vote. 

 

The Senate wasn't created to make sure rural people's votes "counted". It was created to appease the rich people in rural colonies because they were upset that a population-based system would give them less power. 

I don't think that is correct.  The Senate was suppose to represent the States that actually make up the United States.  That is why I mentioned the fact that the 17th Amendment screwed it all up by making Senators answerable to the lobbyist that give them re-election money so they can campaign statewide. 

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 hour ago, The Nature Boy said:

Really was not that bad considering Obama lost more seats in Congress than any president in modern history. Your ditch runneth over 

 

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/dec/07/matthew-dowd/has-president-obama-lost-more-democratic-seats-con/

Mango is on course to do much worse, its only Gerrymandering that prevented him from a heavier defeat in terms of seat numbers. Under the old maps he would've lost 70+ seats easily

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

I don't think that is correct.  The Senate was suppose to represent the States that actually make up the United States.  That is why I mentioned the fact that the 17th Amendment screwed it all up by making Senators answerable to the lobbyist that give them re-election money so they can campaign statewide. 

The Senate is heavily undemocratic, it's more undemocratic than the electoral college. Yes the Senate is suppose to represent the States but back then the States relatively had about the same population. Here we are in 2018 and states like Wyoming/Vermont have just as much power as Texas/California. It's time to update how this body is created.

[bcking 3,157]

13 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

The Senate is heavily undemocratic, it's more undemocratic than the electoral college. Yes the Senate is suppose to represent the States but back then the States relatively had about the same population. Here we are in 2018 and states like Wyoming/Vermont have just as much power as Texas/California. It's time to update how this body is created.

Even back then the States didn't have relatively the same pop. Northern colonies had larger populations. Southern states has large plantations and slaves.

 

The two parts of Congress was compromise. The powerful in the smaller pop states didn't want it to be totally population based.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

10 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

The Senate is heavily undemocratic, it's more undemocratic than the electoral college. Yes the Senate is suppose to represent the States but back then the States relatively had about the same population. Here we are in 2018 and states like Wyoming/Vermont have just as much power as Texas/California. It's time to update how this body is created.

Back when, exactly?  Are you saying NY had the same population as Wyoming in the early days of the US?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

6 hours ago, Satisfied said:

Back when, exactly?  Are you saying NY had the same population as Wyoming in the early days of the US?

Dont confuse him with facts, it might send his TDS into a tailspin

[refugee 169]

4 minutes ago, The Nature Boy said:

Dont confuse him with facts, it might send his TDS into a tailspin

What is TDS?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

53 minutes ago, refugee said:

What is TDS?

You have to be  platinum club member and then you will receive the coveted and much sought after. Nature Boy famous phrases and nature boy English to real English translation guide.

[bcking 3,157]

7 hours ago, Satisfied said:

Back when, exactly?  Are you saying NY had the same population as Wyoming in the early days of the US?

Well he was clearly talking about the ratification of the Constitution with the two chambers, so no he wasn't talking about Wyoming. Wyoming wasn't around.

 

That being said, he is still incorrect. The largest state to ratify had a population of 820,000. The smallest was 60,000. 

 

Though I also need to make a correction to my original statement. Populous states weren't in the North. The largest State was Virginia. The two chambers was still a negotiation between large and small states. The smaller states didn't like the idea of other being all based on population since they would have less power and feared they would be taken advantage of.

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by bcking

[Crazy Cat 39,301]

18 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

The Senate is heavily undemocratic, it's more undemocratic than the electoral college.

That is correct..it was designed that way.....and it won't change for the foreseeable future....so get over it...

[Crazy Cat 39,301]

18 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

Here we are in 2018 and states like Wyoming/Vermont have just as much power as Texas/California. It's time to update how this body is created.

It's almost 2019, and the Senate prevents overcrowded urban areas from ramming mindless policies down the throats of the entire country...states' rights, baby!!   

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, missileman said:

It's almost 2019, and the Senate prevents overcrowded urban areas from ramming mindless policies down the throats of the entire country...states' rights, baby!!   

It also prevents the majority (of people) from making decisions. 

 

People may disagree about whether that is good or bad.

[Crazy Cat 39,301]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

It also prevents the majority (of people) from making decisions. 

 

People may disagree about whether that is good or bad.

Those majorities have complete control to make decisions within their own states..

[Crazy Cat 39,301]

What is good for my state might not be good for your state..........therefore, my state (as a whole) has equal power as your state......I fail to see anything wrong with that concept.

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, missileman said:

Those majorities have complete control to make decisions within their own states..

Very good point. 

 

As I said, limiting the majority isn't universally a bad thing.